Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 03, 2020 3:02 pm Hi all, we have decided to build concrete, have to since brick veneer cannot support a alsrge terrace, and dont want to lose all that space, as home is not massive to start with2 storey home in Sydney, Have looked at various methods, have no idea, so asking/searching. Is ICF or SIP or poured on site method better? pros and cons, heard of mould in ICF years later, heard it has to be demolished! we will be ruined if that happened, ICF seems like living in an ESKI some say..SIP fillings are of controversial in nature...the more I read the more I get confused. Alos how does one improve the insulation qualities of a concrete home? Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 2Jul 03, 2020 4:11 pm Check out Durisol-Nexcem (durisol.com.au), this is wood-concrete based ICF system without any mould or other EPS related issues (such as VOC) guaranteed, it feels like living inside a house made of timber logs while having a composite concrete house with walls 8+ times stronger than double brick. It also provides superior insulation qualities boosted by the thermal mass if you decide to go with 25 cm or 30 cm blocks. No additional insulation required for the walls. I am currently building my house with Durisol-Nexcem in Sydney as well as few other guys on this forum (there are currently 2 builds in progress in Sydney, as far as I know). PM me if you are interested to know/learn more details. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 3Jul 03, 2020 8:24 pm alexp79 Check out Durisol-Nexcem (durisol.com.au), this is wood-concrete based ICF system without any mould or other EPS related issues (such as VOC) guaranteed, it feels like living inside a house made of timber logs while having a composite concrete house with walls 8+ times stronger than double brick. It also provides superior insulation qualities boosted by the thermal mass if you decide to go with 25 cm or 30 cm blocks. No additional insulation required for the walls. I am currently building my house with Durisol-Nexcem in Sydney as well as few other guys on this forum (there are currently 2 builds in progress in Sydney, as far as I know). PM me if you are interested to know/learn more details. Thank you so much for your input alexp79 will look into it immediately. Would you also recommend any particular builder who has experience using Durisol-Nexcem?and best place to buy it from? I would be very grateful If you could let me see the work in progress, seeing it in real life is so much more helpful in decision making than seeing pictures of concrete houses on google!But I totally understand if thats not feasible for you. Grateful, all the best for your home. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 5Jul 03, 2020 10:09 pm alexp79 Provided details over PM. Of anyone else is interested to learn more about build and technology, PM myself too. Thank you so much. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 6Jul 04, 2020 7:25 am mumstheword Hi all, we have decided to build concrete, have to since brick veneer cannot support a alsrge terrace, and dont want to lose all that space, as home is not massive to start with2 storey home in Sydney, A structural concrete wall will support your terrace mumstheword Have looked at various methods, have no idea, so asking/searching. Is ICF or SIP or poured on site method better? pros and cons, heard of mould in ICF years later, heard it has to be demolished! we will be ruined if that happened, ICF seems like living in an ESKI some say..SIP fillings are of controversial in nature... Take your sketch to a construction engineer and have the preliminary engineering design costed Here Slab and formwork Costs apply realistic rate to the quantities Do the same for alternate materials, compare costs and data/proofs,etc engineers don't look past masonry and concrete mumstheword ...the more I read the more I get confused. Alos how does one improve the insulation qualities of a concrete home? Engineers certify Multi physics simulations, ie stress, thermal, acoustic,airflow that meet the respective codes. Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 7Jul 04, 2020 10:53 am StructuralBIMGuy mumstheword Hi all, we have decided to build concrete, have to since brick veneer cannot support a alsrge terrace, and dont want to lose all that space, as home is not massive to start with2 storey home in Sydney, A structural concrete wall will support your terrace mumstheword Have looked at various methods, have no idea, so asking/searching. Is ICF or SIP or poured on site method better? pros and cons, heard of mould in ICF years later, heard it has to be demolished! we will be ruined if that happened, ICF seems like living in an ESKI some say..SIP fillings are of controversial in nature... Take your sketch to a construction engineer and have the preliminary engineering design costed Here Slab and formwork Costs apply realistic rate to the quantities Do the same for alternate materials, compare costs and data/proofs,etc engineers don't look past masonry and concrete mumstheword ...the more I read the more I get confused. Alos how does one improve the insulation qualities of a concrete home? Engineers certify Multi physics simulations, ie stress, thermal, acoustic,airflow that meet the respective codes. Cheers Chris Thank you for your response, will certainly explore that avenue! Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 8Jul 05, 2020 3:10 pm It is extremely difficult to find builders and engineers for "boutique" building materials. Both Hebel (solid block) and ICF have suffered from this difficulty. The ICF does not work as a heat bank (thermal mass) because of the foam surround, works as an esky where it prevents "air" from moving in or out. If in the eastern states you could try smaller custom low profile builders who may take on your project, the suppliers may have contact for engineers. Would be easier to consider double brick cavity construction with foam cavity insulation. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 9Jul 05, 2020 3:36 pm I would agree that unfortunately, the number of builders are limited, but always worth checking with the material vendors themselves, who generally can provide you with the list of approved builders from their side. Some of the vendors can also offer their own installers services to the builders, too. While EPS-based ICFs indeed do not work as heat bank due to the insulating factor, some ICFs like Durisol-Nexcem do offer both thermal mass and insulation due to the unique properties of the wood-cement material (wood is both an insulator as well as heat bank and Durisol-Nexcem is 90% made of wood). Double brick in Sydney will be ridiculously expensive and also only limited number of builders are building double bricks in Sydney area. Also, double bricks are much "heavier" houses which generally requires much more expensive foundations. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 10Jul 06, 2020 10:23 pm Mirrmu83 It is extremely difficult to find builders and engineers for "boutique" building materials. Both Hebel (solid block) and ICF have suffered from this difficulty. The ICF does not work as a heat bank (thermal mass) because of the foam surround, works as an esky where it prevents "air" from moving in or out. If in the eastern states you could try smaller custom low profile builders who may take on your project, the suppliers may have contact for engineers. Would be easier to consider double brick cavity construction with foam cavity insulation. Thank you, will explore...its all so tricky..hmm Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 11Jul 06, 2020 10:24 pm Mirrmu83 It is extremely difficult to find builders and engineers for "boutique" building materials. Both Hebel (solid block) and ICF have suffered from this difficulty. The ICF does not work as a heat bank (thermal mass) because of the foam surround, works as an esky where it prevents "air" from moving in or out. If in the eastern states you could try smaller custom low profile builders who may take on your project, the suppliers may have contact for engineers. Would be easier to consider double brick cavity construction with foam cavity insulation. thank you, will explore,regards Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 12Jul 07, 2020 9:25 pm I dont believe the footings would differ much between ICF concrete walls, Solid Hebel or Double brick. They would be considered masonry construction for slab/footing design. Although double brick is not that common it is a system many builders are comfortable in doing. You can fix to it, its structural, there are many crews of bricklayers around and you can also use "reclaimed" bricks to be green. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 13Jul 07, 2020 9:40 pm Nope, lighter house would need lighter footings due to the fact that calculated house weight will be much lower. E.g. solid concrete is 2400 kg/m3 while Hebel is only around 500 kg/m3. Bricks are also around 2000 kg/m3. Double brick uses 220 mm thick bricks (+mortar) while with Hebel blocks the wall thickness will be 300 mm (+less mortar). With ICF, you would be well off with just 100 mm concrete core (+reo) for load bearing walls, but in reality even less as concrete is not really monolithic inside ICF. Also, in ICF construction, you connect walls to footings, hence, they are working together as extension of the footing inside the composited house, hence, they require even shallower footings (e.g. 200 mm deep footings are generally enough on M class soils). You will be looking more into articulated masonry veneer territory for ICF or solid Hebel house. And yes, you can fix to Solid Hebel or ICF too. FYI, in Sydney, you are looking into $330+ per sqm (+GST) for double brick wall without interiors and services ($1.5 per brick labor + $1 for inside brick and $2 for outside brick + $20 sqm for insulation). Timewise, it will take much longer to build too + you would certainly have to cater for the brick "settling effect" on clay soils. In WA it is a totally different story altogether, though. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 14Jul 08, 2020 12:42 pm Custom builds mostly operate on a quotation. Get a quote from the Hebel contractor/company for 300mm blocks, lintels, sundry items etc, Make sure you sitting down, For that price you get to deal with all the problems of the product as well. No you cant fix to Hebel, face fixing is useless, saddle brackets are okay but limited. If an engineer specifies threaded rod for roof tie-down then you will see your price increase at least 30-40%. The big problem is you find it almost impossible to get an engineering design done for a residential house in Australia. When you look at the true picture double brick (cavity) ticks a lot of boxes. Solid load bearing masonry = articulated masonry veneer?? Thats not the case. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 15Jul 08, 2020 12:48 pm Hebel been operating in Aus since late 1990 (approximately), when started it was all blockwork. ICF started about 1995, it gained a bit of traction. So after 30yrs you would think the resources would be pretty good. Ring a distributor or ring CSR Hebel for a list of experienced engineers, it will be an eye opener. The distributor will be good to deal with but they cant engineer your job. Re: building concrete 2 storey in sydney ICF/SIP?Poured ??? 16Jul 08, 2020 1:04 pm Mirrmu83 Custom builds mostly operate on a quotation. Get a quote from the Hebel contractor/company for 300mm blocks, lintels, sundry items etc, Make sure you sitting down, For that price you get to deal with all the problems of the product as well. No you cant fix to Hebel, face fixing is useless, saddle brackets are okay but limited. If an engineer specifies threaded rod for roof tie-down then you will see your price increase at least 30-40%. The big problem is you find it almost impossible to get an engineering design done for a residential house in Australia. When you look at the true picture double brick (cavity) ticks a lot of boxes. Solid load bearing masonry = articulated masonry veneer?? Thats not the case. Fixing is definitely doable on Hebel builds. Europe is building with AAC for over 30 years and they certainly have no issues of fixing to AAC. You can Google it up, there are tons of references. Also, for roofing on solid Hebel builds is attached to top plate which in its turn is chemi-anchored into the armoured concrete belt. There is nothing complicated about it if you know what it involves. Not in Australia, obviously, this is where structural engineers are mostly blindly following building standards recommendations. I have said that footings depth calculations will be mainly defined by the weight of the house and you will end up with similar footings you will be ending up with footings depth used for articulated masonry veneer as Solid Hebel house will be 3x+ times lighter than double brick one. And yes, I am not saying that Hebel will be cheaper in Sydney, considering that only limited number of builders will be able to approach. Material itself is certainly cheaper than bricks and requires much less labor during installation (can be installed times quicker). But will require more expensive AAC glue, Hebel lintels, armoured concrete belts etc. Hello needing some advice. I was about to build my Alfresco and needed a new slab and remove exisiting slab as its not standard. So they start to excavate and jackhammer… 0 10686 Good questions but the best answer will be obtained by visiting (ie: interviewing) a couple of house designers and/or builders and ask them. You may find it challenging to… 2 3226 |