Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 31, 2022 11:04 pm Our plans indicate that the finished floor level (FFL) should be +200 above ground level.Its evident that this is not the case.Did ask the builder before the slab was poured whether it was right and was told yes it is. It is very clear that FFL is not +200 above ground level.As a result of the FFL not where it is meant to be, the builder is trying to put an extra cost onto us for water tanks to be buried.Further to this, it is going to cost us extra as need to build a retainer wall (as it is a huge step down) and allow for drainage. We wouldnt have to do this, if the house was built according to the elevation.The questions I have is that, should the building surveyor be checking the elevation levels when the footing inspection occured/slab/frame stage? Is the role of the builder surveyor??? My logic tells me that the builder should have to pay for the extra expenses as a result of him not following the plan? Appreciate any advice. Thank you😊 Re: Elevation levels 2Sep 01, 2022 9:17 am 83Cruiser Our plans indicate that the finished floor level (FFL) should be +200 above ground level.Its evident that this is not the case.Did ask the builder before the slab was poured whether it was right and was told yes it is. It is very clear that FFL is not +200 above ground level.As a result of the FFL not where it is meant to be, the builder is trying to put an extra cost onto us for water tanks to be buried.... Unfortunately people make mistakes and clients always pay , you should have had an independent assessment on your house plan and siteworks beforehand 83Cruiser Further to this, it is going to cost us extra as need to build a retainer wall (as it is a huge step down) and allow for drainage. We wouldnt have to do this, if the house was built according to the elevation. Let me guess they show you a FAKE coloured rendered elevation image to start with and a promise to sort everything out within your budget after you paid the deposit for PPA, unfortunately that sales/marketing image doesn't form part of the contract documents. Read the contract your up for additional cost at best, at worse price gouging. 83Cruiser The questions I have is that, should the building surveyor be checking the elevation levels when the footing inspection occured/slab/frame stage? Is the role of the builder surveyor??? My logic tells me that the builder should have to pay for the extra expenses as a result of him not following the plan? Appreciate any advice. Thank you😊 Unfortunately planners and building surveyors are untouchable through council and state regulations. Builders never pay they'll always find someone else to blame. BTW, each state regulations are different. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Elevation levels 3Sep 01, 2022 9:21 am Failing tp follow plans is a breach of contract and a breach of statutory warranties and a defect. Yes, the builder is responsible for the cost of remedial works. Yes building surveyor should have picked up substantial error in levels and if you had your own competent independent inspector it would have been discovered at pre slab stage.What else did the builder get wrong? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Elevation levels 4Sep 01, 2022 1:44 pm building-expert Failing tp follow plans is a breach of contract and a breach of statutory warranties and a defect. Yes, the builder is responsible for the cost of remedial works. Yes building surveyor should have picked up substantial error in levels and if you had your own competent independent inspector it would have been discovered at pre slab stage.What else did the builder get wrong? Thanks Building expert. The builder has also changed the windows, so instead of them being plush up against the eaves, they have been dropped down to allow for extra height in the the carport without any written authority. However in hindsight if the elevation was right he wouldnt have had to do this and as a result the carport will not be able to be used as a carport due to, too much drop from natural geound level. Should i be pursuing the building surveyor? Re: Elevation levels 5Sep 01, 2022 1:57 pm 83Cruiser building-expert Failing tp follow plans is a breach of contract and a breach of statutory warranties and a defect. Yes, the builder is responsible for the cost of remedial works. Yes building surveyor should have picked up substantial error in levels and if you had your own competent independent inspector it would have been discovered at pre slab stage.What else did the builder get wrong? Thanks Building expert. The builder has also changed the windows, so instead of them being plush up against the eaves, they have been dropped down to allow for extra height in the the carport without any written authority. However in hindsight if the elevation was right he wouldnt have had to do this and as a result the carport will not be able to be used as a carport due to, too much drop from natural geound level. Should i be pursuing the building surveyor? I can't give legal advice Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Elevation levels 7Sep 01, 2022 5:47 pm building-expert 83Cruiser building-expert Failing tp follow plans is a breach of contract and a breach of statutory warranties and a defect. Yes, the builder is responsible for the cost of remedial works. Yes building surveyor should have picked up substantial error in levels and if you had your own competent independent inspector it would have been discovered at pre slab stage.What else did the builder get wrong? Thanks Building expert. The builder has also changed the windows, so instead of them being plush up against the eaves, they have been dropped down to allow for extra height in the the carport without any written authority. However in hindsight if the elevation was right he wouldnt have had to do this and as a result the carport will not be able to be used as a carport due to, too much drop from natural geound level. Should i be pursuing the building surveyor? I can't give legal advice Totally understand, thank you for your thoughts though! Re: Elevation levels 8Sep 01, 2022 5:49 pm strannik do you by any chance have a photo of what you're talking about? i struggle to picture it in my head.... I don't atm, next time I go on site I will be able to get a picture. It's about a 400mm step down into the house. Re: Elevation levels 10Sep 01, 2022 7:03 pm strannik Ah so they dug a hole then poured the slab inside it? Or is your block on a slope, so instead of backfilling the lower part they dug out the higher one? Thats correct..on a relatively flat site..my logic tells me that the reason why it was done..to save on bringing in soil/gravel etc.. Re: Elevation levels 11Sep 01, 2022 9:05 pm 83Cruiser The first thing you need to do is check the actual height (RL or FFL) of the slab compared with the RL specified on the approved plans. If you look at the plans it will give you the slab height and there is normally a notation that slab height can vary up or down by a certain amount (possibly 100mm). Once you have an actual height then you have the power to go back to your builder. As Building-Expert mentioned the approved plans form part of your contract with the builder and it's also part of the planning and building approval. If they have built incorrectly then it's on them to rectify the situation for you. First step is to find out if the built height is wrong and then go from there. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Elevation levels 12Sep 01, 2022 9:50 pm chippy @83Cruiser The first thing you need to do is check the actual height (RL or FFL) of the slab compared with the RL specified on the approved plans. If you look at the plans it will give you the slab height and there is normally a notation that slab height can vary up or down by a certain amount (possibly 100mm). Once you have an actual height then you have the power to go back to your builder. As Building-Expert mentioned the approved plans form part of your contract with the builder and it's also part of the planning and building approval. If they have built incorrectly then it's on them to rectify the situation for you. First step is to find out if the built height is wrong and then go from there. Thanks Chippy..Have measured the FFL and it is almost 200mm below natural ground level.Plans say FFL to be +200 above ground level. I am in the process of checking with engineer about the slab requirements to ensure that there is nothing in the engineering plans to indicate something different. Re: Elevation levels 13Sep 01, 2022 11:01 pm “natural ground level” is not a fixed point but rather a line drawn on elevations to give an idea. This is more artists impression rather than a proper plan. You need to find what fixed datum was used, ie a AHD or a RL from a gutter or fixed man made structure, to work out slab height. You need the plans posted here to get proper advice. Re: Elevation levels 15Sep 01, 2022 11:15 pm Ozshaz May I ask please how do you measure the FFL of built house as compared to the drawings ? Is it just matter of measuring it using a scale or we need to do some contour or survey ? It all relates to a fixed datum point. Either AHD (Australian Height Datum) or it may be as simple as a nail or fixed mark on the road or curb out the front of the house. The floor level then relates to a height above (or below) that fixed point. A surveyor or competent person with a laser level or similar can then tell you if the house slab is at the correct height. The height of the surrounding ground isn't really an accurate indicator if the slab is built to the correct height as ground level can vary, particularly on a sloping site. That's the reason the OP needs to check the actual height not just eyeball it and say it's below the ground level. It's possible that the ground level is higher than is expected whilst the floor level is actually the correct height. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Elevation levels 16Sep 01, 2022 11:24 pm chippy Ozshaz May I ask please how do you measure the FFL of built house as compared to the drawings ? Is it just matter of measuring it using a scale or we need to do some contour or survey ? It all relates to a fixed datum point. Either AHD (Australian Height Datum) or it may be as simple as a nail or fixed mark on the road or curb out the front of the house. The floor level then relates to a height above (or below) that fixed point. A surveyor or competent person with a laser level or similar can then tell you if the house slab is at the correct height. The height of the surrounding ground isn't really an accurate indicator if the slab is built to the correct height as ground level can vary, particularly on a sloping site. That's the reason the OP needs to check the actual height not just eyeball it and say it's below the ground level. It's possible that the ground level is higher than is expected whilst the floor level is actually the correct height. Thanks Chippy ! Re: Elevation levels 17Sep 02, 2022 8:11 am Check the site for the initial bench mark height and then use that as a starting reference ? We ask the surveyor to transfer a known height to a fixed object on site, ie Fence, post that won't be disturbed We can use this as a reference mark during construction for checking heights, elevations, etc.... you might be in luck? Here Measuring and checking heights With Bosch GLL 380CG Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Elevation levels 18Sep 02, 2022 9:27 am Pulse “natural ground level” is not a fixed point but rather a line drawn on elevations to give an idea. This is more artists impression rather than a proper plan. The same can be said with impression renderings with trees on either sides of the boundaries and vines planted against the elevations. This is referred to as "Green Renderings" a form of Green Washing. The intent is to obscure the construction and engineering details, Data, etc, hook the client in and LOL prune the vegetation later, while never cutting the costs... get it Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Elevation levels 19Sep 02, 2022 11:14 pm Have a look at your sectional elevation, it will show FFl relationship with ground level and then look at what has been built. If it looks wrong it is. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Elevation levels 20Sep 03, 2022 12:30 pm 83Cruiser Our plans indicate that the finished floor level (FFL) should be +200 above ground level.Its evident that this is not the case.Did ask the builder before the slab was poured whether it was right and was told yes it is. It is very clear that FFL is not +200 above ground level.As a result of the FFL not where it is meant to be, the builder is trying to put an extra cost onto us for water tanks to be buried.Further to this, it is going to cost us extra as need to build a retainer wall (as it is a huge step down) and allow for drainage. We wouldnt have to do this, if the house was built according to the elevation.The questions I have is that, should the building surveyor be checking the elevation levels when the footing inspection occured/slab/frame stage? Is the role of the builder surveyor??? My logic tells me that the builder should have to pay for the extra expenses as a result of him not following the plan? Appreciate any advice. Thank you😊 83 Cruiser There are some really good replies to your post but I thought I would add to them by explaining how the process works. Here goes: 1. Before designing your house you will have had an identification and contour survey undertake. This will show the RL's of the contours on your site. These are a relative height taken above a datum. Here in Sydney I am pretty sure that datum is Fort Denison in Sydney Harbour ( someone correct me if I am wrong as I am trying to remember back to my unit days). So that means the if you have an RL of 60 you are 60m above that datum. 2. When you design your house the FFL should be indicated as an RL on the plans. So if your natural ground level RL is 60 and your FFL is 200 above it the FFL should be 60.20 3. When your builder is setting out your slab for piers and edge boards, prior to setting them out the surveyor will come back to site and place stakes and pins in the ground showing the offsets for the slab edges. What they also do is put pins or marks showing the FFL's on the nearest fence. 4. When forming the slab and pouring concrete, as the builder and concreter will use a laser to double check that the slab is finished to the correct RL. I hope this helps you understand the process a bit. Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Hi, have purchased a house with 2 single garage doors. The Centre pillar one side sits proud to the other. Can I change 2 doors into one. 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