Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 17, 2020 8:36 am So , my question is based off a recent topic I saw regarding first floor brick construction. Our builders design has brick throughout lower and upper levels , front and back . From what I was told this is better than having cladding on the top level as it would be more thermally efficient . Is this not correct ? Another builder used cladding and quoted is 5k to update the first floor cladding to brick . Which then led me to believe that brick must be better . Would appreciate your opinions on this. Other than being aesthetically pleasing , are there any other actual advantages of having brick construction in the top storey ? Re: Brick/cladding ? 2May 17, 2020 1:38 pm Depends on the cladding type. If you use e.g. Hebel AAC Panels, you can improve thermal efficiency a little bit in comparison to brick. If you use EPS (or better XPS) panels, you can achieve significantly higher thermal efficiency. However, both Hebel and EPS will require rendering, hence, this will be adding to the cost and you won't be able to use standard cement render there, you would need to use expensive acrylic or (even better) silicon-silicate renders instead. Therefore, the end costs might be similar to bricks, remember, your builder pays roughly $160+GST per sqm for brick (for $2 brick + $1 on labour, 52 bricks per sqm). On a separate side, AAC is great (and almost perfect) house building material on its own and is relatively lightweight too. I would definitely prefer a house built out of AAC blocks to framed "stick houses" as well as to double bricks any day. AAC beats traditional materials on pretty much every single aspect including costs and speed of construction and solid rendered walls both perform and "feel" much better than cheapish gyprock (in fact, almost no one in Australia is using proper 13 mm drywalls in the walls, e.g. Europe and US 10 mm gyprock is not even considered suitable for walls). BTW, previous discussion was re having double brick vs lightweight EPS cladding, so in a bit different context. Re: Brick/cladding ? 3May 17, 2020 3:07 pm First, I'll start by saying I'm not a fan of brick. It does have its advantages, mainly that it's virtually maintenance free. As long as you're happy with the look of bricks, & don't want to render or paint it. But brick has a major weakness, it's high thermal mass. That is its ability to store large amounts of heat, releasing it slowly, at a later time. Don't get me wrong, thermal mass can be brilliant, if used correctly. It will stabilise the temperature, reducing the daytime highs, increasing the nighttime lows - knocking off the peaks & troughs. Thermal mass is appropriate in many climates - but not the tropical far north, where thermal mass is a very bad idea. But the thermal mass must be used correctly. It should be inside the building envelope, protected from the weather. It's especially important that it's protected from the summer sun. For climates where a decent amount of thermal mass is appropriate, I'd go for an exposed concrete floor in northern living areas. This floor will receive winter sunshine in the day, soaking up the heat of the sun throughout the day. Radiating that heat back into the home in the evenings, as the house starts to cool, keeping it warmer at night. In summer the concrete floor will be protected from the sun. At night, as the temperature cools outside, the home can be opened up, cooling the floor greatly. The following day this cool floor will speak up a lot of heat, keeping the home cool throughout the day. For some climates - particularly inland, where daytime highs & nighttime lows differ greatly - even more thermal mass is appropriate. Possibly an additional masonry feature wall in the living area. Or in climates where high thermal mass is appropriate, a different construction technique, reverse brick veneer (RBV). This is a building technique using an insulated lightweight cladding is, & an interior brick wall is used instead of plasterboard. But for many climates, from a thermal perspective, it's a bad idea to clad a home in brick, exposed to the elements. This is particularly true for hot, sunny Australia. Brick is a poor insulator. It won't resist the flow of heat, other than by storing that heat. On summer days a brick wall will soak up a tonne of heat from the sun. In the evenings, as the sun goes down, this heat will be radiated out of the brick. Much of it radiated towards the interior of the home. Making the insulation work harder. Brick doesn't stop the flow of heat, it's a poor insulator, it only delays that flow, by storing the heat, re-radiating it at a later time. This is even more of a problem on the top storey. Hot air rises, as a home warms throughout the day, that heat travels upstairs. Add additional heat up there, radiated from hot bricks, & upstairs bedrooms can be stifling hot on summer evenings. Much better to use a lightweight cladding. As soon as the ambient temperature cools outside in the evening, open the house up, purging the heat, cooling the home. You don't want brick to slow this process. Re: Brick/cladding ? 4May 17, 2020 3:37 pm I would also add that steel wall ties will be acting as heat transfer bridges, hence, it is very likely that more heat will be transferred to the inside of the brick than to outside. On the other side, this is the whole purpose of having insulation, it making sure that the heat transfer is slowed down and reaches temperature equilibrium point somewhere along the way. But this is only if your insulation is consistent and perfect, in most houses wooden frame will be working as thermal bridge as it will have much higher thermal conductivity than insulation batts. Double brick and RBV makes use of inside thermal mass. I found interesting article that proves that exterior thermal mass is still better than lightweight (with similar insulation) in hot and humid climate: http://www.wseas.us/e-library/conferences/2012/Paris/DEEE/DEEE-20.pdf Re: Brick/cladding ? 5May 17, 2020 3:49 pm sbanu So , my question is based off a recent topic I saw regarding first floor brick construction. Our builders design has brick throughout lower and upper levels , front and back . From what I was told this is better than having cladding on the top level as it would be more thermally efficient . Is this not correct ? Another builder used cladding and quoted is 5k to update the first floor cladding to brick . Which then led me to believe that brick must be better . Would appreciate your opinions on this. Other than being aesthetically pleasing , are there any other actual advantages of having brick construction in the top storey ? Thanks for the detailed responses guys . Much appreciated . So basically brick on the first floor would be thermally inefficient . I was told the opposite by the sales rep !! Our lot is south west facing so basically we’ll have our rumpus and kitchen at the back where the most day sun will be received And the top floor Above will have the kids bedrooms . I flipped the original plan so I could have the garage and the laundry on the side that receive little to no sun . All of our living areas will have plenty of natural light but will also get very hot in summers . So judging by the responses , brick seems like a definite no no for the top floor . What would be the best kids of material then ? The frame of the house is timber and insulation is Bat 4.0 for the walls and 2.0 for ceiling. And I suppose I should get a credit for deleting bricks and opting for cladding or hebel ? Re: Brick/cladding ? 6May 17, 2020 4:04 pm See above, brick will still be okay, but not as good as let's say Hebel Wall Panels or EPS cladding, but I personally would stay away from EPS due to its VOC properties as well as poor "breathability". Take a look at Hebel Wall Panels, they are not bad at all and provide extra thermal efficiency. Hebel requires rendering, so in the end of the day, you may end up paying even more than for the bricks bricks. Having said that, most of the heat will still be coming in through the windows though, so consider Low E glass for Western windows and longer eaves for Nothern windows. Re: Brick/cladding ? 7May 17, 2020 6:15 pm alexp79 See above, brick will still be okay, but not as good as let's say Hebel Wall Panels or EPS cladding, but I personally would stay away from EPS due to its VOC properties as well as poor "breathability". Take a look at Hebel Wall Panels, they are not bad at all and provide extra thermal efficiency. Hebel requires rendering, so in the end of the day, you may end up paying even more than for the bricks bricks. Having said that, most of the heat will still be coming in through the windows though, so consider Low E glass for Western windows and longer eaves for Nothern windows. Thanks , I’ll check it out and get the builder to Provide a quote for It. Does it need to be renders though? I was under the impression that it could be bagged . Maybe I’m wrong ... Re: Brick/cladding ? 8May 17, 2020 11:20 pm sbanu sbanu So , my question is based off a recent topic I saw regarding first floor brick construction. Our builders design has brick throughout lower and upper levels , front and back . From what I was told this is better than having cladding on the top level as it would be more thermally efficient . Is this not correct ? Another builder used cladding and quoted is 5k to update the first floor cladding to brick . Which then led me to believe that brick must be better . Would appreciate your opinions on this. Other than being aesthetically pleasing , are there any other actual advantages of having brick construction in the top storey ? Thanks for the detailed responses guys . Much appreciated . So basically brick on the first floor would be thermally inefficient . I was told the opposite by the sales rep !! Our lot is south west facing so basically we’ll have our rumpus and kitchen at the back where the most day sun will be received And the top floor Above will have the kids bedrooms . I flipped the original plan so I could have the garage and the laundry on the side that receive little to no sun . All of our living areas will have plenty of natural light but will also get very hot in summers . So judging by the responses , brick seems like a definite no no for the top floor . What would be the best kids of material then ? The frame of the house is timber and insulation is Bat 4.0 for the walls and 2.0 for ceiling. And I suppose I should get a credit for deleting bricks and opting for cladding or hebel ? "The frame of the house is timber and insulation is Bat 4.0 for the walls and 2.0 for ceiling" You will find it is the other way around, R4.0 are unable to go into the walls as they are too thick Re: Brick/cladding ? 9Jul 29, 2020 1:21 pm Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. Re: Brick/cladding ? 10Aug 16, 2020 8:04 am spinvests Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. I am considering Axon sheets for facade except protruding face brick wall to mix things up.. Check out what I have designed myself to get pricing done Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Brick/cladding ? 11Aug 17, 2020 11:59 am MBX3 spinvests Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. I am considering Axon sheets for facade except protruding face brick wall to mix things up.. Check out what I have designed myself to get pricing done Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Looks great MBX3. Love the exposed timber post. I'm struggling to find some solutions to make our brick feature in the elevation look good. At the moment, it doesn't look great with the vanadium stains. Can you offer any suggestions on this thread? https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=99835 Re: Brick/cladding ? 12May 18, 2021 7:53 pm spinvests Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. Hi spinvests , I am interested in this facade. Can you tell me more information about this one or the builder's name? Many thanks Re: Brick/cladding ? 13May 19, 2021 4:29 pm kokichi89 spinvests Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. Hi spinvests , I am interested in this facade. Can you tell me more information about this one or the builder's name? Many thanks Hi Kokichi89 - this was called Odis with Impressions but BGC is now all rebranded and no longer have the Impressions brand. It must be on their website though but not sure what they call it now. Re: Brick/cladding ? 14May 19, 2021 4:39 pm spinvests kokichi89 spinvests Hello All I was hoping to get some advise around Timber Composite Cladding, our builder has advised that they prefer to use Selekta timber composite cladding for the elevation. Any expert here who can weigh in on the pros and cons of this product? https://www.bluechipgroup.net.au/timber-cladding-perth/timber-composite-cladding-perth.html Background - we were promised grooves in the elevation which they've now come back saying that it is impossible to achieve with the render. Hence the cladding option is being offered. Initially during design stage, we opted out of cladding as it was proving to be expensive. (we are talking about the area around/over the window in light brown with vertical grooves). Like ⋅ 1 comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you very much in advance. Hi spinvests , I am interested in this facade. Can you tell me more information about this one or the builder's name? Many thanks Hi Kokichi89 - this was called Odis with Impressions but BGC is now all rebranded and no longer have the Impressions brand. It must be on their website though but not sure what they call it now. That's cool. Thank you. I would to ask about the external colours of the roof, garage doors if don't mind sharing Standard uninsulated double brick has an R value of around 0.7. An insulated standard 90mm stud timber frame can have an R value of around 2.7. Even if you insulate a… 17 12062 The spacing of the studs looks pretty large especially for a load bearing wall. 3 11122 Re my second point – yes exactly. And often it may take additional time if the manufacturer recommends no more than X meters… 3 5652 |