Cross checking with an estimator

Hi All,

We are building a new home on the Sunny Coast with a well known builder.

We are totally unable to check the cost of anything including variations as everything is lump summed.

Has anyone used an independent estimator to cross check the amount you are being charged is fair?

Is it simply a matter of sending them (the estimator) plans and a spec and paying them a fee to do an estimate?

Thanks again

Bobby

Get up to three quotes and be surprised by how much they differ. Builders quote on the basis of "low ingoing" or "bait and switch" and give you only a single-page specification, where all sorts of costs are missing, like wall painting, etc. The worst thing you can do to a builder is ask for a copy of the standard speci, in other words, the one that lists all the inclusion in their standard contract.

Where costs differ substantially, you can ask that builder to re-estimate. Unfortunately, if you have to employ a professional, like an estimator, when you have only one quote, you are paying professional fees plus the delays while you are throwing money out renting.

Even if the estimator then points out discrepancies in his professional report, the builder may not budge, just like they do not have to budge if your building inspector finds faults forcing you to go to the Building Commission or consumer affairs, etc.

The home we are building a semi custom with GJ Gardiner in the 700k price range. Its not a home chosen from a standard design - more a variation of a custom they did for someone else that has further changes made to it.
As such, the house is only costed by them.
They have been very good with catering to our requirements design wise and all the staff there are great to work with.
But we don't see a breakdown of any kind and everything is lump summed so its impossible to follow costs etc.
As far as we understand profit margins are as follows:
5% is a tight margin
10% is industry standard
15% they are doing very well
20% is over the top
Please correct me if i'm wrong.
The reason we are getting an estimator is because we do not see credits or debits when things are adjusted.
We already have a signed contract but costs have blown out significantly - rightly enough so as we have adjusted and added and tweaked a lot of things. But we dont know where the money is going.
So the estimator is not going to change anything, other than to give us peace of mind (hopefully).
We contacted 3 different estimators (quantity surveyors) and they all say their accuracy is within 5%.
Thanks again.

Seriously why would you get an estimator to price up a design the builder owns copyright on?.. It doesn't make any sense
If it was your design then yes use your tender estimate as a base line for comparing 3 other builders quotes
Also if you use your own 3D Bim Design the estimating is automated within the initial design at no extra cost ie Accuracy for materials takeoff and costing are < 5%
Cheers
Chris

In my case, there was a stone bench top, so I asked for a credit as I will get Laminex. So I got credits from two builders, which differed. If something is included in their standard speci and you delete it, ask for a credit. Mind you, you never get much back, but any change costs you dearly.

Hi Chris
a follow up to this

I have built 10 new builds over the last 5 years and all were spreadsheeting / excel and individual subcontract quotes used for estimates.
About to scale and we have a project for 5 duplex's over the next 12 months
what estimator software would you recommend for a small builder
Wanting to expand to 10 new builds per yr.

Just emailed Buildsoft for demonstration of CUBIT.
anything else?
buildertrend?

Hey nemo-D Welcome to the forum

Gone are the days... where the AEC industry uses numerous, dysfunctional, expensive,poorly translated data, Building information software, so find one that works for you
If your current software providers can't offer this service find another...simple

OT The trend is towards the owner/designer/engineer/builder using one piece of kit for everything, eg, automating the material estimating in a couple of clicks, unfortunately at the moment you need to program/script what I do
. you'll get the gist keep an eye out for Revit, Sketchup and vectorworks 2021/2022 update Releases videos
and you'll see what I mean
Cheers
Chris

CoastalNewBuild
The builder has a right to refuse to vary works.
If builder agrees then you will be quoted beforehand for your approval
Some contract provide that if variation price cannot be agreed then it is carried out as cost plus builders margin
Your problem is that you have already signed building contract and now you seek variations. The contract will specify procedures re variations , have you read them?
You need to know that the variations have negative effect on builder's productivity. Builder may be better off to refuse and forego margin on your variations and instead redeploy resources by taking on another houses to build for a bigger margin.
You have signed off on building contract before you knew what you wanted, there is a cost as you are finding out.
Has anyone reviewed your contract before you signed?

If your would like to get a taste for Python scripting here
Python + IOT + Bim is replacing estimating packages
Why pay for access to Pricing data with your estimating Package
when you can get it free from Bunnings and other sources off the internet
HTH

Firstly, getting BIM data out of the model is a relatively easy thing, but first an accurate model has to be built, so someone need to be qualified enough to build accurate models of the whole house including finishes.

Secondly, from my experience, pricing and costs for various materials and as well as labor can easily vary up to 30% in one region, as well as geographically. If you build several houses a year, most of the vendors can be pushed for the discount of 25% or even more. E.g. you pay $280 per sqm for 25 MPA concrete in Sydney if you just give a call to Boral out of blue and $240 "if you know right people". You can even find $220 for the same concrete if you will be looking very hard.

Imported materials is another whole new area to consider too. E.g. how come basic such thing as Hebel/AAC in Australia is $90 per sqm and 3-5 times cheaper in China and Europe?

Thirdly, a tech savvy builder in the future could easily afford a margin of over 40% when the building is done with the use of modern technologies and materials and through proper organised process, significantly reducing manual labor costs.

IMHO Australian residential building is light years away and too conservative. E.g. have you heard of hyper-pressed bricks? Monolithically pre-fabricated rib-and-slab floors (allowing spans over 16 m and providing ultimate levels of acoustics and thermal insulation)? Swedish-style slabs? Metal composite roofing tiles? PIR insulation? MgO chloride panels (exceeding gyprock by far in every single area)?

How often have you seen builders investing into training their labourers when it gets to process optimisation? E.g. in Europe, I have seen teams of 4 feneral labourers who were capable to finish off all internal works in 200 sqm apartment including rendering, gyprock, tiling, painting, plumbing/electrical connections and flooring in just 4 weeks and all work done with the a very high quality and using most advanced materials and methods. I have seen a team of 2 gyprockers capable to install studs and attach 1000 sqm of gyprock to the walls in just one day.