Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 12, 2019 5:58 pm Hi guys and gals, Im Steve, first time poster here posting on behalf of my 21yo Son. I hope you don't mind the opening long post but we really need some input from experienced heads and figured i'd provide as much detail as possible. So my eldest Son is having his first home built, a 2 storey townhouse and its barely begun, which is a story in its own right as its been about 2 months late with the start, and when I called in to check out the progress this morning I came across something which has me worried. The slab was poured about 2 weeks ago, its part of a group of 8 townhouses in a row and was the last section poured. The first thing I noticed was the obvious colouration difference between the first 6 and the last two, my Sons slab is very pale, whereas the first six have a very grey look to them, I've done a little concreting in my time, nothing on this scale, but to me it looks like a very weak mix. So yesterday they stood up the first frames, two steel square frames, one at the front which is the opening for the garage, the other at the rear where the sliding door on to the patio area is, this is where I discovered the real concern. In order to attach the frames they've drilled 2 holes of about an inch or so round for each leg into the foundation which have then been filled with a type of paste and then a threaded rod inserted. These holes have been drilled less than an inch from the edge of the slab and have resulted in the concrete fracturing and completely falling away, both bolts are completely loose in their holes to the point where you can actually lift one all but clear of the concrete if not for the now hardened paste, there is nothing holding that whole side secured to the slab and if I wanted to I could push the whole frame away from the edge. We live in Adelaide, the slab was poured on the 30/10/19 and the BOM has the temp in the city as 34* on that day, we're well north and usually see temps around 2* warmer at any given time, it was the hottest max temp for the week and was followed by an equally hot day. I spoke to the contractor levelling up the site a fortnight prior and he told me the builder wanted all slabs poured by close of play on 30/10/19. My Wife drove past it on the afternoon they had poured and there was a worker standing there hosing it down with water, don't know if this is relevant or not. I took a photo of the outside of the area to show the fractured concrete and then took two short video's of me being able to move the two bolts from the back where its visible in the slab and from the front where the nut is above the frame footing. I sent all the footage to my Son who immediately contacted his build consultant who asked for them to be forwarded which my son did along with a sternly worded message and refusal to accept it or make any further payments until its been rectified and signed off as acceptable by him. The question is, firstly, to any concreters or builders who work in this aspect of the construction, what can be done to fix it and secondly to anyone who's had this experience, is my Son within his rights to refuse to accept it as is and request it fixed. Any advice would be much appreciated as he is quite angry about the poor workmanship. Some pics to show the state of play.. This shows the damage on both sides Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ A close up of the right side of the steel frame Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The threaded rod, the only thing stopping me from removing it altogether was a small blob of paste which im told is called Chemset Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This is the largest piece of the concrete which has fallen out of the cavity Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 3Nov 13, 2019 10:41 pm Thanks Luxbuild. Yes I've been told to seek the services of a structural engineer but thus far I've been unable to find one locally, we're currently considering the services of a Building Inspector who'll delas with the building process and will work with us to ensure this is fixed according to industry practice and oversee the rest of the build. Unfortunately we don't have any drawings. The development is quite large and there must be about 3 dozen of this particular design all built the same, the other 3 slabs at this stage have the beams in the same position so I imagine its to spec. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 4Nov 14, 2019 8:23 am Bent_8 Unfortunately we don't have any drawings. The development is quite large and there must be about 3 dozen of this particular design all built the same, the other 3 slabs at this stage have the beams in the same position so I imagine its to spec. The base plate column details are incorrect ie bolts too close to the slab edge resulting in the concrete edge cracking there appears to be issues with the Concrete + Pour tho hard to access by means of a photo It would be wise to have an engineer inspect the slab and check your wind loading's, shear walls,etc Also lodge a complaint, your council should have certified engineering column details cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 5Nov 14, 2019 12:35 pm Thanks Chris, we appreciate your comments. I've contacted a Building Inspector who's licenced to report on this situation that will stand up against the Site Supervisor, he's suggested we give them an opportunity to present their case on how it will be rectified and to pass those details on to him, we have an appointment on site next Wednesday. My Son plans to engage the Inspector to oversee the remainder of the build as this has left him feeling uneasy, he's only just turned 21 and has poured everything he's got into this so its a big deal to him, neither of us have had experience with building before so we are at the mercy of the professionals. If you don't mind, could you explain the complaint process for us, who do we lodge the complaint with and what should we provide. Thanks, Steve. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 6Nov 14, 2019 12:47 pm I noticed in your first email you mentioned about possibly withholding future payments. You need to check the contract on whether you can do that. Some also add you have to pay even if the builder has breached the contract. Sadly the building industry needs a serious shakeup. Definitely get your own independent inspector.. that is money well spent. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 7Nov 14, 2019 1:05 pm Yes, he did write that in his email, and you're probably correct with that regard, however, he might have difficulties receiving the requests and arranging the release of funds... Just for the record, we don't want to make this hard for anyone, my Son is one of the most accommodating and relaxed people you could meet, he has his problems but don't we all. This has been his dream for a number of years now and he's worked hard from the age of 14 to make it all happen so he is quite upset that this has come up so soon into the process, we understand that accidents happen and im sure no one goes out of their way to cause issues, so its not about blaming anyone, its done, all he wants now is a competent fix. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 8Nov 14, 2019 7:56 pm Bent_8 If you don't mind, could you explain the complaint process for us, who do we lodge the complaint with and what should we provide. Thanks, Steve. Here in WA the complaint is lodged with the Building Commission I believe in Vic it's the VBA though I may stand corrected. LOL, The VBA Building Surveyor Complaints Page has been removed? There appears to be a number of failings by the 1. Builder/supervisor 2. Private certifier/BSs 3. Council building department BSs who are required to have copies of all certified structural Drawings including Steelwork hth Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 9Nov 18, 2019 11:35 am Bit of an update. Called past the clock on Friday evening to see what's been done, nothing had been touched since Monday when they drilled the holes, drove past Sunday afternoon and found this... Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Second pic is the less damaged side and looks like a reasonable job, but the first pic where the main damage was done looks ordinary at best. I imagine its just a concrete mix of sorts that's been smoothed over the area and cant imagine how it could possible be acceptable enough to secure the steel frame. This must be the 'grout' the Site Supervisor said was still to be applied. Lo and behold, temporary fence was up by 9am this morning... Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 11Nov 18, 2019 2:09 pm luxbuild Im not a professional, but that looks cosmetic at best. Agree, may as well have smeared peanut butter on it Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 13Nov 18, 2019 8:51 pm Thanks Chris, we'll certainly ask the question but whether the Site Supervisor is prepared to accommodate is another thing. I've had people suggest seeking the services of an independent Structural Engineer and even suggest we approach a solicitor about it, its a bloody disgrace really, you pay good money to have a build and when they stuff it up you're made to feel as though the onus is on you to pay more to get it rectified. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 14Nov 19, 2019 12:22 am The engineer is the only person who can certify it "not fit for purpose" As an engineer I would conduct a variation of the schmidt rebound hammer test when the concrete keeps cracking and falling out then they would have to find the correct solution for the fix. I would also report them to the building commission Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 15Nov 19, 2019 2:03 pm Thanks Chris, you wouldn't happen to know an Engineer in SA who would assist us, I've looked online but cant find anyone who advertises this type of service, everyone seems to be into the bigger civil stuff. I spoke with my Son about it last night and he's not sure what to do, he's worried that if he digs in over this and causes problems with the builder that it'll just escalate and we'll find more and more ;issues'' as the build goes, being only 21 and having invested every dollar he has into it, he's not really in a position to take on a company with greater resources. I've said i'll help him and cover what I can, but where will it end. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 16Nov 19, 2019 9:20 pm Hi Bent_8 There would be plenty of structural engineers in SA willing to assist Contact Engineers Australia SA see if you can find someone nearby, send them an email and get a quote for a quick site visit. You will get a better response from the Building commission if an engineer whacks that cement patch with a hammer and it falls out. Sorry I can't be of further assistance Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 17Nov 20, 2019 6:52 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hi Bent_8 There would be plenty of structural engineers in SA willing to assist Contact Engineers Australia SA see if you can find someone nearby, send them an email and get a quote for a quick site visit. You will get a better response from the Building commission if an engineer whacks that cement patch with a hammer and it falls out. Sorry I can't be of further assistance Chris Hi Chris Managed to find a local Engineer who does this work, sent him a detailed email with pictures, he said it is definitely of concern, but is unfortunately too busy to help us. He suggested we find out who the builders Engineer is as the design/application is flawed and they would be equally concerned. Sounds good in principal, but could you imagine the builder supplying that type of info given that it could open a can of worms for the other few dozen identical dwellings already built. I get the impression that everyone agrees its not acceptable, but no one wants to put pen to paper and make it official which doesn't surprise me as its becoming obvious that in a small town like Adelaide, they're all looking after each others interests. Had the meeting with the SS this afternoon, told him that i'd contacted Engineers and shown them the damage and that they believed it needed fixing correctly, his reply, its all good, we used special grout, these are my baby's, I take great pride in my work, wiggled the bolt and said im glad I've set your mind at ease, I just shook my head. Im over it, my Sons over it, they win, he'll live in it for long enough to build some equity at which point he'll flog it off and buy something built 30yrs ago when tradies had pride and skill. Thanks for your advice though, it was much appreciated. Re: Looking for advice on a foundation issue 18Nov 20, 2019 8:12 pm Bent_8 He suggested we find out who the builders Engineer is as the design/application is flawed and they would be equally concerned. Sounds good in principal, but could you imagine the builder supplying that type of info given that it could open a can of worms for the other few dozen identical dwellings already built. I get the impression that everyone agrees its not acceptable, but no one wants to put pen to paper and make it official which doesn't surprise me as its becoming obvious that in a small town like Adelaide, they're all looking after each others interests. I am sure there are retired engineers locally not affiliated to builders that may help out? Bent_8 Had the meeting with the SS this afternoon, told him that i'd contacted Engineers and shown them the damage and that they believed it needed fixing correctly, his reply, its all good, we used special grout, these are my baby's, I take great pride in my work, wiggled the bolt and said im glad I've set your mind at ease, I just shook my head. LOL special grout my back side, IMO, that SS should have his license revoked or some penalty imposed That is if he has a license? Once you get an independent engineers letter present it to the council building Surveyor and SA Building commission/consumer rights Disputes with a builder or tradesperson Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs thanks Chippy, i hope they have applied sealer but i am doubt to be honest, so i am gonna do this job after handover. 8 11917 2 4506 |