Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Sep 09, 2019 1:51 pm Visited a DFH display home in Victoria yesterday. Asked sales guy if we could appoint our own Building Surveyor. He said no. I said that was illegal, and he said our option is to not go with DFH - which obviously we won't (!!). For the record I asked how they felt about me using a building inspector also, and they were OK with that but suggested I don't really need one as their tradies are top notch (look at our lovely display home, all our builds look like that honest guv!)) and they already have a decent building surveyor. I started to point out the obvious conflicts of interest and the fact that private building surveyors employed for bare-minimum signoff only are basically a waste of money, (why check the plumbing when the plumber's already checked it himself!!) but wasn't really getting anywhere so gave up. Anyway, this is just a heads up for people to help change this broken industry. You should vote with your feet, peeps, to make these idiots changes their process and man-up to their shortcomings. Consumer Affairs Victoria states that "A builder may recommend a private building surveyor, but you are free to appoint a private building surveyor of your choice" https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/building-and-renovating/plan-and-manage-your-building-project/domestic-building-consumer-guide I searched the Consumer Affairs Victoria website but couldn't find anywhere that said DFH were immune to this requirement. Unfortunately I'm not a legal person so I don't know what/where the legislation is for this. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 2Sep 09, 2019 2:07 pm smitho I started to point out the obvious conflicts of interest and the fact that private building surveyors employed for bare-minimum signoff only are basically a waste of money, (why check the plumbing when the plumber's already checked it himself!!) but wasn't really getting anywhere so gave up. That's right, building surveyors don't check plumbing, they only sight the plumber's self certified Certificate of Compliance. Self certification is why the majority of houses in Victoria over many years have been built with non compliant stormwater roof drainage. It became endemic years ago. If DFH have an exemption that allows them to use their own (conflict of interest) building surveyor, you will find it listed with the ACCC. smitho Anyway, this is just a heads up for people to help change this broken industry. Yep...broken and morally bankrupt. There are a few petitions calling for a Royal Commission floating around. Have you signed one yet? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 4Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm Yes I have signed one of the petitions and donated some money. I am honestly happy to pay more money to a volume builder to make sure they do the job correctly. I understand their margins are tight and therefore corners are cut. But I'm more than willing to pay for transparency. I don't even care about the finishes that much, all of that can be fixed later. It's when they stuff up the early stages that it will cost you dearly once it's too late. What I don't want is to be held over a barrel to pay an instalment when the job isn't to building code, or as per the contract. The only leverage I get is through an independent surveyor, as they hold the keys to progressing the build. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 5Sep 09, 2019 3:19 pm I paid about $85,000 extra to get my Metricon home built to a reasonable standard of workmanship when multiple serious defects were identified during the build. This money consisted of extra rent, storage and interest due to Metricon’s delaying tactics, inspector and legal fees, plus DIY measuring tools. Metricon or their contractors probably paid a similar amount in rectification works and NSW fair trading fines for breach of the rectification order. Be aware that if you push the builder to rectify defects they will probably push back. They have many tactics to do this and ultimately it becomes a balance of your time, your money, and the quality you accept. Every customers’ awareness & expectations of quality, resources and energy will be different. I too would have appreciated the option up front to pay a little extra for a Quality Assurance Process however Metricon’s high volume & low cost business model has no such process, despite what their marketing and sales representations tell you. Anyone considering a builder should also ask the salesperson to explain their quality assurance process and provide some documents detailing it. This will show how seriously they take quality assurance. Metricons representations about this are just glossy fluff. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 6Sep 09, 2019 4:47 pm Norfolk The the first thing your home insurance company will check in assessing a claim for water leak damage is if the drainage is compliant. Well exactly, which is why non-compliant plumbing should be able to hold up stage payments. But in the current setup with DFH for example, this won't necessarily happen. They do have the best tradies though, so she'll be right. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 8Jul 09, 2020 1:38 am I queried Metricon's QA process earlier last month, and after several weeks of no replies, they sent me this document which has details, but I can't see anything on it that confirms that they follow it, there is no letterhead, no signatures, no names, just a collection of items during each stage on what should get done! ========================================= Quality Assurance Process A licenced surveyor completes quality assurance checks at each of the following stages of the build: 1. Base inspection – Preparation of the base is inspected. 2. Steel inspection – Steel work and set up is inspected prior to slab pour. 3. Frame inspection – Framework is inspected. 4. Final inspection – The whole home is inspected. The occupancy permit will not be issued until this inspection has been approved. If the home includes the following, further inspections are undertaken by a licenced surveyor: Bored piers – The bored piers of the home are inspected. Retaining walls – The retaining walls of the home are inspected if they are constructed on the boundary of the site. During the build the Site Manager completes the following inspection reports which can only be viewed by the Construction Manager and Building Manager. These are mandatory but are not limited: 1. Pre pour inspection – Steel work and set up is inspected. 2. Post pour inspection – Slab is inspected once poured. 3. Frame inspection – Framework is inspected. 4. Brick inspection – Brickwork is inspected. 5. Pre plaster inspection – The entire home is inspected prior to plaster installation. 6. Plaster inspection – The finished plaster is inspected with a representative from the plaster supplier. 7. Fix inspection – The entire home is inspected once the fix is completed. 8. Site Manager final inspection – The entire home is inspected by the Site Manager. 9. Construction Manager final inspection – The entire home is inspected by the Construction Manager. During the build our Quality Assurance Manager undertakes the following inspections: 1. Pre plaster inspection – The entire home is inspected by the Quality Assurance Manager. The home cannot progress, and the plaster installed, until the Quality Assurance Manager approves. 2. Final inspection – The entire home is inspected by the Quality Assurance Manager. The home cannot progress to completion prior to approval by the Quality Assurance Manager. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 9Jul 09, 2020 7:23 am smitho Well exactly, which is why non-compliant plumbing should be able to hold up stage payments. But in the current setup with DFH for example, this won't necessarily happen. They do have the best tradies though, so she'll be right. Mentioning plumbers and best tradies in the same breath is taking a huge leap of faith. New home owners should have a full CCTV compliance inspection of all stormwater and drain pipes as well as a roof drainage compliance inspection either before or at PCI. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 10Jul 09, 2020 8:56 am Sparkyf During the build the Site Manager completes the following inspection reports which can only be viewed by the Construction Manager and Building Manager. These are mandatory but are not limited: 1. Pre pour inspection – Steel work and set up is inspected. 2. Post pour inspection – Slab is inspected once poured. 3. Frame inspection – Framework is inspected. 4. Brick inspection – Brickwork is inspected. Even more reason to have your build properly inspected and certified by your own structural engineer as they are the only ones that can certify alternate methods and fixes... please check with your local Council building department cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 11Jul 09, 2020 9:14 am On my builds I've always taken a lot of interest in the initial plumbing. If this looks good it gives an indication the builder is interested in quality. If it looks bad its an early stage of ther build to let them know what's being done isn't good enough. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 12May 13, 2021 10:50 am "New home owners should have a full CCTV compliance inspection of all stormwater and drain pipes as well as a roof drainage compliance inspection either before or at PCI." Save H2O, it is great to see you active on this thread. You gave me some great advice on stormwater and water tanks last year before we started building. Fast forward to today, the house roof is on, and they are currently doing electrical and aircon roughins. With the CCTV compliance inspection, Is it too early to do it now? Our downpipes are in, gutters are in, but water tank is not connected yet. Also curious to know, if they do find something under the slab, how would the builder fix it? With the CCTV compliance inspection, what does it involve? Does the inspector send a camera along the pipe and see if there are any leaks or cracks? How long is the inspection and how much does it normally cost (two storey house). I talked to my plumber who usually comes and fixes my minor plumbing issues and he said the pipes will be full of water and the camera wouldn't be able to see anything down there. He also said with the leakage test, he would need to fill all the pipes with water, and come back at a later date to see if the water level has dropped. I don't know if I communicated clearly enough about this inspection, but what he described doesn't seem to be the inspection we are talking about here. Is this particular inspection a very specialised area? Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 13May 16, 2021 11:22 am Huggies With the CCTV compliance inspection, Is it too early to do it now? Our downpipes are in, gutters are in, but water tank is not connected yet. If it is the fire fighting water tank discussed in the other thread, you can can either plumb a downpipe to it which would also require an overflow pipe fitted to the tank or else have a look at our Supadiverta which will allow you to plumb a smaller pvc or poly pipe to an inlet fitted about 100mm or so above the bottom of the tank. Having an overflow pipe fitted to the tank would also not be needed with this option plus once the tank is full, water from that downpipe can be diverted elsewhere rather than be continuously diverted to the tank by a downpipe diverted to a wet system. You say that the downpipes are in but are they connected to pipe work? Are you on or off the water and sewer grid? Huggies I talked to my plumber who usually comes and fixes my minor plumbing issues and he said the pipes will be full of water and the camera wouldn't be able to see anything down there. He also said with the leakage test, he would need to fill all the pipes with water, and come back at a later date to see if the water level has dropped. I have to assume that the plumber was talking about a water tank wet system because the other stormwater and drain pipes are required to have minimum slopes so that they drain, not retain. Huggies With the CCTV compliance inspection, what does it involve? Is this particular inspection a very specialised area? The inspection uses a camera to check for debris tossed into the pipe work, pooling (non compliant slope), pipe damage etc. There are numerous threads and posts on H1 about pipe non compliance and bad workmanship that has caused all sorts of problems. The problem with getting just any plumber to do the inspection is that plumbers are a closed group with many knowing one another, hence many would not want to get involved with inspecting another plumber's work plus many simply lack the skill and regulatory knowledge to do a competent inspection in any case. Here in Melbourne, Metropolis Solutions specialises in forensic inspections and these guys have a good knowledge of the regulations. It is a business model that is needed in other States. They may be able to recommend someone where you are. https://metropolis.melbourne/ With roof stormwater drainage compliance, you could do your own check but you come under the BCA regs which are much laxer than the Australian Standards AS/NZS 3500.3. While the Australian Standards are a Deemed To Satisfy solution, the BCA, being the primary document, has hierarchy unlike here in Victoria where the BCA is not and has never been recognised as a Deemed To Satisfy Solution for roof and stormwater drainage. It has to be remembered that compliance is no guarantee of good practice and the BCA regs are on the wrong foot to start with. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 14May 17, 2021 9:31 pm Thank you SaveH2O for your very thorough explanation. I will call Metropolis tomorrow and hopefully I can get a name for Sydney. Very much appreciated. As you said, many plumbers know each other. Turns out my plumber knows the plumber who did the job. My plumber hasn't called me back - so I guess he probably doesn't want to do the job. Re: Dennis Family Homes Don't Allow You To Use Your Own BS 15May 17, 2021 10:59 pm Hmmm,,,maybe he was refering to the stormwater and sewer pipes being full of water afterall,,,to protect his buddy perhaps,,,but are the pipes installed? If you do a forum keyword search using Metropolis Solutions, you should bring up some threads where they have been used. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Plasterboard Gyprock is very popular as a reveal liner these days. You need to provide a way of supporting it, we use a modified timber reveal or bracket. You will be… 1 4758 Hi everyone, Newbie renovator here, after some advice for combining our family room in the picture and the alfresco and make a larger family room. There is a flush sill… 0 4898 Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. The benefit is you can tender the project out… 9 20425 |