Cost Variations post Quote

Hi,

I am building a house with a volume builder (They build approx. 100 new homes a year) who I won't name at this stage.

They have been very good to deal with to this stage (5-6 months) but was very surprised with our first tender meeting following on from receiving our build quote a fortnight earlier to be presented with the following cost variations after the initial quote:

$5,000 for crane hire which we've been told is for deliveries due to restricted access to our block where there are neighbouring houses either side.

$3,000 for rainwater tank.

$8,000 provision for a sealed system which we've now been told is a council requirement as our block is in a flood zone/overlay.

$1,500 in a few other minor changes.

This is on the back of another $7,000 surprise we received at the quote stage for extending our first floor by a metre which we had been told that we had extra square metreage to utilise free of charge as part of the house design we were using. We've since been told that this charge was for extending the ground floor which we hadn't even discussed to date.

It's fair to say some red flags were coming up for me so I promptly finished up the meeting and am now looking at all options.

If anyone has some feedback on the above additional costs and particularly the timing of them (After the initial quote stage and after I had requested in writing to not have any cost surprises as we were working to a tight budget), it would be appreciated.

Cheers.

They really don't sound unusual to me.

I thought the general rule-of-thumb was that if you were getting away with anything less than about $100k more than the quote you were doing well?

If you're in NSW PM me and as I know a lot of the major builders ( having worked for several of them) and I can give you some more accurate feedback as to whats reasonable.

But I need more detail on your street for the crane ( what is important is to ask them how many lifts they will be doing and what size crane etc ie a 30 tone mobile v a franna as costs vary significantly.

They may also hit you up for traffic control while lifting, but I can help you out in a Pm with more details.

Suprising they have hit you up with a variation for a rainwater tank as they should be included as standard now ( maybe council requires a larger one). A 3000l tank with pump costs around $2500. Some councils require two so this may be fair

anyway, i might be able to assist

Cheers

S

Welcome to the forum
How do you estimate costs without engineering Stormwater designs, specifications and details?
How long is a piece of string? How long does it take?
the crane hire is too high?

Sorry, you will need to put up more info..BTW it also helps others
Charged stormwater design sloping block

you are right, my guess is they are probably PC sums as you cant know the costs until the engineering has been completed

Thanks for the feedback S. I'm based in VIC and the our block is on a quiet court, so wouldn't imagine that traffic control would be required.

The contract/tender clarifications we were presented with lists the following:

Crane hire double story designs due to restricted access with dwellings either side of lot - $5,000

Provide 2,000 litre slimline oval rainwater tank to meet requirements of land contract/town planning - $3,064

Provisional sum for sealed system as per land contract requirements. Price to be fixed upon receipt of final engineering and quotes - $8,000

I went to council today who said I need to follow up with Melbourne Water regarding the sealed system as they didn't know what it was or whether it was required.

I think I need the RWT to achieve the 6 star rating for the dwelling.

I understand that some of these charges may be required and my responsibility to check, I was just surprised to get an additional $17k in costs provided in the following meeting after we had already been through the quote with them at the previous meeting and they have been made aware of our overlays and none of the above charges had been flagged after several meetings.

Cheers.

Thanks for the feedback Structuralbimguy. In addition to the info I have responded in the post above, another tender clarification is to provide AHD survey to assess flood prone levels due to lot being in a flood prone zone - $470 which they have now said they will not charge for.

They are also looking into the crane and sealed system charges further as they are provisional charges which they've obviously built some fat into.

I think it makes sense to get the engineers report completed so that we have a more accurate read on the sealed system costs.

Cheers.

If your engineer uses 3D Bim Engineering,then you should be able to extract Material Quantities, ie , m,m2,m3,etc
Apply realistic labour Rates$ , allow for a reasonable builders profit and compare it to the builders final price.
Be Wary Builders will always try to gouge back additional margins on variations and provision Costs/Sums, etc
Drive a bargain in your favour and negotiate hth

Is $3,064 just for the tank? If so, even with the builder's 20% margin it is ridiculously expensive.

Ask about having two 1,000 L round poly tanks or even three 700 L or 800 L round poly tanks if you needed a smaller diameter. You would divert to one end tank and the water would flow through balance lines to the furthest tank that would service the pump. This is called a settling tank system that would provide the pump with cleaner water and have the same footprint at 1/3 of the price. Only the infeed tank would require an overflow pipe.

Also don't get ripped off with an oversized pump or accept a Davey Rainbank. The Davey Rainbank is an expensive automatic mains water switching device that transfers mains water to the pump whenever the tank gets low on rainwater.

You can save close to $1,000 by eliminating a mains water switching device by having the cisterns plumbed directly from the pump via a manual mains water switching system operated by isolation valves fitted in the toilet. It is very simple, see link below.
https://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/asset ... sterns.pdf

Will the property be connected to recycled water? If the property is supplied with recycled water, you do not need to opt for either a 2,000 L rainwater tank or a solar hot water system.

I am not clear on this, is this a charged stormwater system? If so, $8,000 is very expensive or is it a pumped system?

Thanks for the feedback StructuralIBIMGuy. I'm getting the impression that this builder is definitely gouging now which is disappointing as I've lost a lot of confidence in them now and am wondering where else in the construction costs are they gouging. Cheers

Thanks for the feedback SaveH2O. I have asked for clarity on the sealed system and for a fixed price on it too. The quote has Class A recycled water which includes water run in, connection of recycled water to all toilet suites, 1no recycled tap at rear of dwelling and 1no recycled water connection to laundry. The variations list the 2,000 litre slimline oval rainwater tank to meet requirements of land contract. How do I know if I really need both?

I'm not privy to the contract and so I can't say but it seems ridiculous for you to have to bear the cost of both recycled water and a variation for a water tank unless the tank is part of a charged stormwater detention system and there was a set limited Permissible Site Discharge (PSD) but if it was, the tank size would most probably be bigger. Just ask the builder for documentation as to the tank's required purpose. $3,000 is ridiculous anyway but surely that would also include other costs such as the base.

Are you building with Simmonds? They use to wrongly charge their customers for a tank or solar hot water even when their houses were connected to recycled water.

You're right, the sealed system sounds like a charged system ( in NSW they are called Charged Systems), but $8k and then $3k for the tank WTF???

You can do your entire external drainage for $8-10k. A charged system is in basic terms uPVC solvent welding your 100mm PVC pipe ( to pressure seal it) and making sure they get the invert and discharge RL's correct. So $8k is a massive gouge

If that is all they are doing, then a huge YES, it would be a massive rort for just solvent welding some pvc stormwater pipe to the adaptors.

The only use that I can see for a tank is its use as a detention system unless it is an underground detention tank used to capture and pump surface water to a LPOD. If so, then they must have incorporated some of the additional costs into the $8,000.

I await with interest.

SaveH20, SejaeD, above is the diagram that they printed off from the internet i think and explained to me is what the Sealed System setup is.

I told them that i was going to get a plumbing contact to also quote on the job to ensure the costs they are proposing are fair and reasonable.

Cheers,

Norts33

Norts33
If I was to print that rubbish out off the internet and submit it to the council for approvals they would laugh at me.
A plumber wouldn't quote on that sketch, nor should you accept an PS estimate based on that.
Engineering PSs are easy targets for cost hikes and most clients never query them.. basically clients trust Engineers..I'm finding trust isn't transferable to builders. hth