Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 17, 2020 3:35 pm Has anyone had the horrific experience of their Council substituting falsified documents to their new home construction without their knowledge? I used an Architect to organise a major extension for my home on acreage in a High Risk Bushfire zone in the Adelaide hills. The Architect was the Applicant and without my knowledge, and without going through the Applicant, the Council Planning Department substituted falsified Engineering documents for the Footings and sub structure to the build just before the start of the build. This was obviously done well after I had proper Development Authorisation, - just some form of back door deal that the Council's Planning Department call a 'minor amendment'!! They also say that they have an 'amended Development Authorisation' from a company that acts as a Building Surveying company and Consultancy for the Council - yet it seems it does not exist - never been seen and a private company could not issue an 'amended Developmemt Authorisation ' like this anyway - a new Application for Development with consideration of the Bushfire Regulation requirements in a High Risk Bushfire Zone would have been required, I understand. Council staff then passed Footing and Framing checks that should never have passed. Bushfire construction requirements and wind rating requirements were removed. The house is now an uninhabitable illegal death trap and the Council are refusing to investigate and refusing to communicate. It is horrendous. Dirty dealings seem to abound. Speaking up has had me bullied threatened and intimidated etc Has anyone on here had this experience or know of anyone who has? Can anyone offer help regarding such a horrific situation? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This is a copy of the Council's 'amended Footing design' drawing - note the Council's stamp. No other details - it is just a part copied from the orginal very large (?A1) Engineer's drawing and had bits whited out and copied over....replacing some concrete slab and replacing some steel with soft pine posts in a high risk Bushfire zone..... Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 3May 17, 2020 10:11 pm luxbuild What does your builder say? Presumably they built to these amended plans? Who gave them the plans? There are so many questions. What happened to the architect? Were they overseeing the job? Why wasn't the builder using the original approved plans that the architect was given by the council? The whole story is a little hard to follow. What is or was the council's motivation to supply amended plans that would not be compliant, or if you built as per the approved plans then why isn't it compliant??? It's a pretty serious accusation. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 4May 17, 2020 11:58 pm chippy luxbuild What does your builder say? Presumably they built to these amended plans? Who gave them the plans? There are so many questions. What happened to the architect? Were they overseeing the job? Why wasn't the builder using the original approved plans that the architect was given by the council? The whole story is a little hard to follow. What is or was the council's motivation to supply amended plans that would not be compliant, or if you built as per the approved plans then why isn't it compliant??? It's a pretty serious accusation. It's more than a serious accusation , it's what has happened! .....It seems there is no 'Authorisation' for the falsified Engineering plans - with my proper Development Authorisation basically being trashed by this action and leaving me with an illegal unsafe and uninhabitable construction. The builder obviously got paid for what is a knock down job due to the falsified Engineering etc - and he (mostly) built to the falsified Engineering amended plans for the Footings and sub structure and when confronted by the original Engineer he waved the substituted documents at him saying "I've got this" - the substituted documents that the Council took in from their Building Surveyor mates - who work for the Council too ( but there is no Building consent just falsified Engineering documents ) I now have an illegal death trap for a home and everyone is covering for everyone else it seems and refusing to deal with the issue. As I said, the Council claim to have an 'amended Development Authorisation' , - from their Building Surveyor mates, - which seems to be a big fat falsehood.It's the Council that have to issue the Development Authorisation anyway. The Council's Planning and Development Manager refusing to meet to discuss the matter - real shockers! I have tried to get them to investigate - they won't - just a big fob. Previously they made an attempt to have me accept a suspect inspection that avoided looking at any documents - and avoided the issue at hand, - organised by a private Lawyer working for the Council who also sat on the Council's insurance panel ! It goes from seriously suspect to even worse.... Sadly the Council staff obviously worked with the builder here too, as well as their Building Surveyor company mates who work as Consultants to Local Government too. This Building Surveying company, who do a lot of our State's big Government jobs (they were involved with the Adelaide Oval, Adelaide Convention Centre and they certfiied our very expensive, $2.44 billion dollar Royal Adelaide Hospital) - so they should know that Engineering structural safety matters!! - One of their Directors was sitting in the position (probably still in the role - he has been there for many years) of Chairman of the Council's Building Fire Safety Committee, along with the Building Inspector who was involved in taking in and applying the falsified documents too.....pretty handy position to have - be in charge of Building Fire Safety as your company removes Building Fire Safety working with the Council staff via substituting falsified documents...... The Council who are supposed to respect Legislation. They are the Relevant Authority. This is a Bushfire zone and we have just had serious Bushfires, yet it seems the Council does not give a toss about that.....whilst crying out for funding from the National Government's Bushfire funding organisation......It is unreal! No one will help - it is beyond disgusting and speaking up has lead me to being treated very poorly in many incidences . This Building Surveying company, who works closely with Government, gave the horrendous amended documents to the Council well after full Development Authorisation - I knew nothing of this, and they only referenced the original Planning Consent date - yet removed Bushfire safety requirements and wind rating and the Council claim they gave them an 'amended Development Authorisation' - never seen and never provided by the Council who just won't communicate now, -really shocking documents and they were applied to the job. Suspect dealings all around. The Architect took everything up to finished Development Authorisation and then got building quotes but was not overseeing the job. As for your question as to why the Council would apply the amended plans - which are in no way compliant - it's a house basically designed to kill due to lacking Engineering safety, failing Bushfire and Wind Rating requirements etc, As for their motivation for doing so - It was put to me (by one of their long serving Councillors), that this is what happens when someone wants your property (they have effectively destroyed my home construction) It just so happens it's 20 acres in the Council's prime new tourism area where they want the likes of cellar doors and restaurants etc - near Hahndorf in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. They call it the 'Hahndorf Hinterland' . The Council have a new policy for the area - for tourism Development, -yet their studies showed them that 95 % of this, their preferred land for tourism, has people living on these properties. The whole situation is disgusting and so far they seem to be allowed to behave as if they are 'above the law' and can risk lives in the community like this as they organise death trap housing!!! So, has anyone else experienced such disgusting dealings from their Council and their mates? Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 5May 18, 2020 12:44 am Make a complaint to the ombudsman, and get a property lawyer. Accusations such as what you have outlined are incredibly serious and need to be investigated. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 6May 18, 2020 8:25 am I went to the Ombudsman's office with lots of information - they could see how bad it was and insisted I wait for someone else to come in to look at the situation. I thought I was going to get help.......How naive of me.... After being interviewed by 2 assessment officers who took a copy of the Council's highly suspect report into themselves (now lost at the Ombudsman's office it seems, when I followed up it was not on their file) In came one of their Investigative Officers who was also a Lawyer who treated me very poorly indeed - making all sorts of inappropriate comments -and quite a mocking attitude. Allegedly telling me the Ombudsman probably wouldn't look at it and even if he did it would take 2 years and the Council would not have to act on any recommendation even if one was made and on it went.......It's a tiresome game that everyone seems to want to play. I called the Ombudsman's office back and was basically told "Oh you can make a complaint if you like" - A waste of time doing that - seems to be just the game to keep one running around in circles. It is sickening. I may contact them again - yet I am over the games being played - Why can't someone just do their job and sort things out??? Lawyers too have played the game - my first lot were runner up Law firm of the Year, however, that did not stop them changing wording in a very serious letter that would have incriminated me (implying I gave permission for the document changes) etc. They also failed to tell me that the Building Surveying company involved in the whole document substitution with the Council were clients of theirs - undeclared Conflict of Interest....and so the rubbish continues!! Hence, I'm on here asking for advice or help and if anyone else has experienced such disgusting behaviour? Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 7May 18, 2020 5:45 pm Clare Jay I went to the Ombudsman's office with lots of information - they could see how bad it was and insisted I wait for someone else to come in to look at the situation. I thought I was going to get help.......How naive of me.... After being interviewed by 2 assessment officers who took a copy of the Council's highly suspect report into themselves (now lost at the Ombudsman's office it seems, when I followed up it was not on their file) In came one of their Investigative Officers who was also a Lawyer who treated me very poorly indeed - making all sorts of inappropriate comments -and quite a mocking attitude. Allegedly telling me the Ombudsman probably wouldn't look at it and even if he did it would take 2 years and the Council would not have to act on any recommendation even if one was made and on it went.......It's a tiresome game that everyone seems to want to play. I called the Ombudsman's office back and was basically told "Oh you can make a complaint if you like" - A waste of time doing that - seems to be just the game to keep one running around in circles. It is sickening. I may contact them again - yet I am over the games being played - Why can't someone just do their job and sort things out??? Lawyers too have played the game - my first lot were runner up Law firm of the Year, however, that did not stop them changing wording in a very serious letter that would have incriminated me (implying I gave permission for the document changes) etc. They also failed to tell me that the Building Surveying company involved in the whole document substitution with the Council were clients of theirs - undeclared Conflict of Interest....and so the rubbish continues!! Hence, I'm on here asking for advice or help and if anyone else has experienced such disgusting behaviour? Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 8May 18, 2020 6:32 pm Joker Clare Jay I went to the Ombudsman's office with lots of information - they could see how bad it was and insisted I wait for someone else to come in to look at the situation. I thought I was going to get help.......How naive of me.... After being interviewed by 2 assessment officers who took a copy of the Council's highly suspect report into themselves (now lost at the Ombudsman's office it seems, when I followed up it was not on their file) In came one of their Investigative Officers who was also a Lawyer who treated me very poorly indeed - making all sorts of inappropriate comments -and quite a mocking attitude. Allegedly telling me the Ombudsman probably wouldn't look at it and even if he did it would take 2 years and the Council would not have to act on any recommendation even if one was made and on it went.......It's a tiresome game that everyone seems to want to play. I called the Ombudsman's office back and was basically told "Oh you can make a complaint if you like" - A waste of time doing that - seems to be just the game to keep one running around in circles. It is sickening. I may contact them again - yet I am over the games being played - Why can't someone just do their job and sort things out??? Lawyers too have played the game - my first lot were runner up Law firm of the Year, however, that did not stop them changing wording in a very serious letter that would have incriminated me (implying I gave permission for the document changes) etc. They also failed to tell me that the Building Surveying company involved in the whole document substitution with the Council were clients of theirs - undeclared Conflict of Interest....and so the rubbish continues!! Hence, I'm on here asking for advice or help and if anyone else has experienced such disgusting behaviour? You need to go to your local government state representative,if they won't help ,but they should,then go to a opposition government representative ,even a federal member,you must insist on a face to face or live meeting ,you definitely need a ball breaking experienced consultant or building solicitor,I would try building expert and see what his recommendation would be,good luck. Thanks for your advice, I seriously do appreciate your effort. - Sadly Local MPs both Liberal, Labor and Independent all seem to be playing the 'look the other way' /fob/ignore game....As if they are just one big Political Party - not separate from each other... and 'Local Government' is 'above the law' ....where the dirty deals are done....I don't know if this is just a South Australian problem or if other States are as bad too (??). Our State's Planning and Local Government Minister is Stephan Knoll, and he's Liberal, he also wears the Transport hat and that's the only portfolio he seems to comment on - I thought he should care as it's his portfolio (Local Government as well as Planning - and it's the Planning department in my Council who have substituted the falsified Engineering documents) however, he knows it is bad yet his office seem to be happy to play the' lock out'/ignore/brush off game too!! Seriously, maybe they don't care if people are killed - perhaps someone wanting someone else's property is more important in their eyes than a person's life..... I have contacted several MPs, - everyone knows how bad it is yet, it seems these people involved in the suspect dealings are being 'protected' - ( Council staff plus their very well connected mates who get Government deals). My Local Federal Member's office refused to help as they said it's a Local issue - despite them dealing in 'local' issues when it suits them. Before winning the election I was told to contact them after the election of course, - then they won and have refused to help..... So I am left camping in 2 rooms attached to a death trap of a home that is designed to blow down, fall down or burn down (either by a Bushfire, - I'm in a Bushfire zone, on 20 acres, - only 30 min from Adelaide) or the combustion heater falling through the elevated floor, ( - take your pick!!)....Sometimes I wish it would blow over in a storm (it even fails the lower N2 wind rating yet the location is rated at the more severe N3 wind rating) - if it blew onto the road my neighbours would be locked in - maybe them calling out (but not getting hurt or killed of course!) would help get a result!! I am not kidding you when I say a 'Building Expert' (probably the State's most prominent) charged me over $5000 for a report which skirted around things and the top Building Lawyer who engaged him changed wording that would have incriminated me - those on the other side were their clients - they did not tell me that - I do need that "ball breaking experienced Consultant" that you have mentioned....( sounds nice ) - I just need one honest person who has the guts to call it and demand a result - I have not found them yet, - surely there must be one in South Australia?? What does this say about the Development Industry in South Australia and the ability to build a safe home?? Are 'the boys' club' really running the show and no one has the guts to stand up against them? I feel like I have a loaded gun (2 guns really, one each side), being held to my head. It is truly horrid and disgusting as no one in 'Authority' is doing their job - it is like a sick game to them - and I'm being placed at risk and under incredible pressure. I would love to hear from anyone else who has had such a disgusting situation happen to them.......or any other suggestions on how to get help.....and where to find that dream "Ball breaking experienced Consultant"...... Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 9May 18, 2020 7:20 pm Have you tried getting in touch with the media. ACA always like a local government failure story. It may be enough "noise" to get a politician interested in helping you. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 11May 18, 2020 9:09 pm ACA loves plumber stories...so too do their viewers. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 12May 18, 2020 9:22 pm So who employed the builder and how did they get these updated engineering documents to build from? Have you had someone come out and cost the remediation work for you? Isn't that your goal, to ultimately get the works complying with regulations? Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 13May 19, 2020 4:27 am luxbuild So who employed the builder and how did they get these updated engineering documents to build from? Have you had someone come out and cost the remediation work for you? Isn't that your goal, to ultimately get the works complying with regulations? As already stated, the Council, in their role of 'Relevant Authority' took in falsified Engineering documents (not 'updated' Engineering documents as you call them ....that's neat spin applied by you ) for the Footings and sub structure from a private company ( A Building Surveying company - they even certified South Australia' s very expensive , $2.44 billion dollar Royal Adelaide Hospital, so they should know the importance of sound Structural Engineering and legal documentation ). This company does a lot of work for both Local Government (Councils) and State Government - they have even allegedly been involved with helping make the laws in State Government departments for Planning etc apparently....The Council have confirmed that they did not notify me (the land owner) when they did this. The Council did not deal with either the Applicant or the owner when they took these documents in. The Council Planning Department have acknowledged they took in these documents, calling them a 'minor' amendment (!!!) and also claiming that this company gave the Council an 'amended Development Authorisation'....which has never been produced - I doubt it exists. I don't know if anyone 'paid' the builder or 'employed' the builder to be involved in this back door deal....I don't know how 'the boys' organised this - they have not been forthcoming with their back door dealings or who paid who to do it....I was never told about it, nor was I ever sent a bill for the falsified Engineering documents....or their acceptance and application at the Council.....It seems sabotage of one's home construction is a free service provided by Local Government!. The construction has been described as a knock down job - Yes, it is that bad. It is not a matter for 'remedial works' as you describe. - I guess it is hard to pick up a house and apply a cement slab underneath part of it and put the house back on top whilst replacing incorrect posts, bearers and joists too...... I want my home built to the proper standards - preferably to the original approved Development Authorisation as required by the Development Act and the Development Regulations and Bushfire Regulations etc - however if that is not legally correct now - due to the Council refusing to grant an extension for the original Development Authorisation, with their Senior Planner telling me "You don't need one"...Then it may need to be built to updated required standards.....Whatever it takes to give me the safe home construction that I was supposed to get before the Council and their mates worked to destroy it. The Council are not supposed to be 'above the law' they should not be permitted to deal in falsified documentation - they are the 'Relevant Authority' here so they need to be held accountable, to be made to actually do their job properly and not act in such a way that they are risking lives in the community and creating unsafe illegal home construction and pay up, - of course they could sue those who they have worked with to carry out this whole sordid disgusting operation.....however, since they seem to have encouraged this in their role of 'Relevant Authority' that may be a challenge. Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 14May 19, 2020 4:37 am chippy Have you tried getting in touch with the media. ACA always like a local government failure story. It may be enough "noise" to get a politician interested in helping you. Thanks Chippy, I have tried that - the media here in South Australia seem to 'play the game' too - sadly. They report on useless trivial matters yet seem to ignore the serious ones when 'well connected' people are involved... A Journalist from our main newspaper told me they have their vested interests......ACA don't seem interested in South Australian stories - however, if you or anyone has a contact there and can encourage them to get involved, please let me know!! Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your imput. Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 16May 19, 2020 2:50 pm Clare Jay chippy luxbuild What does your builder say? Presumably they built to these amended plans? Who gave them the plans? There are so many questions. What happened to the architect? Were they overseeing the job? Why wasn't the builder using the original approved plans that the architect was given by the council? The whole story is a little hard to follow. What is or was the council's motivation to supply amended plans that would not be compliant, or if you built as per the approved plans then why isn't it compliant??? It's a pretty serious accusation. The Architect took everything up to finished Development Authorisation and then got building quotes but was not overseeing the job. This is the part that I can't understand. If the Architect as the applicant got the original approved DA and it was as per his original plans (hence was happy to go to quotes), then they have used those plans to get quotes from the builders, all of them (including the chosen builder) would of had the correct set of approved plans. How did the chosen builder in between quoting on the correct plans and building the house get a different set of plans? If the architect arranged the builder for you, then the builder was ultimately under your employ. How did they come to have this alternate set of plans. Why didn't you become aware that they were not going to build as per what they had quoted on? I'm not criticising, but it's a little hard to follow. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 17Feb 24, 2021 12:19 am Clare Jay luxbuild So who employed the builder and how did they get these updated engineering documents to build from? Have you had someone come out and cost the remediation work for you? Isn't that your goal, to ultimately get the works complying with regulations? As already stated, the Council, in their role of 'Relevant Authority' took in falsified Engineering documents (not 'updated' Engineering documents as you call them ....that's neat spin applied by you ) for the Footings and sub structure from a private company ( A Building Surveying company - they even certified South Australia' s very expensive , $2.44 billion dollar Royal Adelaide Hospital, so they should know the importance of sound Structural Engineering and legal documentation ). This company does a lot of work for both Local Government (Councils) and State Government - they have even allegedly been involved with helping make the laws in State Government departments for Planning etc apparently....The Council have confirmed that they did not notify me (the land owner) when they did this. The Council did not deal with either the Applicant or the owner when they took these documents in. The Council Planning Department have acknowledged they took in these documents, calling them a 'minor' amendment (!!!) and also claiming that this company gave the Council an 'amended Development Authorisation'....which has never been produced - I doubt it exists. I don't know if anyone 'paid' the builder or 'employed' the builder to be involved in this back door deal....I don't know how 'the boys' organised this - they have not been forthcoming with their back door dealings or who paid who to do it....I was never told about it, nor was I ever sent a bill for the falsified Engineering documents....or their acceptance and application at the Council.....It seems sabotage of one's home construction is a free service provided by Local Government!. The construction has been described as a knock down job - Yes, it is that bad. It is not a matter for 'remedial works' as you describe. - I guess it is hard to pick up a house and apply a cement slab underneath part of it and put the house back on top whilst replacing incorrect posts, bearers and joists too...... I want my home built to the proper standards - preferably to the original approved Development Authorisation as required by the Development Act and the Development Regulations and Bushfire Regulations etc - however if that is not legally correct now - due to the Council refusing to grant an extension for the original Development Authorisation, with their Senior Planner telling me "You don't need one"...Then it may need to be built to updated required standards.....Whatever it takes to give me the safe home construction that I was supposed to get before the Council and their mates worked to destroy it. The Council are not supposed to be 'above the law' they should not be permitted to deal in falsified documentation - they are the 'Relevant Authority' here so they need to be held accountable, to be made to actually do their job properly and not act in such a way that they are risking lives in the community and creating unsafe illegal home construction and pay up, - of course they could sue those who they have worked with to carry out this whole sordid disgusting operation.....however, since they seem to have encouraged this in their role of 'Relevant Authority' that may be a challenge. What ended up happening with this? Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 18Feb 24, 2021 12:36 pm after reading all of this, i still don't understand the motivation of any party mentioned to do what's been described here. This all seems like it would have taken more effort to do than just work to the agreed original and approved plans. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Council substituting falsified documents for new build 19Feb 24, 2021 12:51 pm I think the poster posted in the wrong forum, This is a building forum etc, I think they were looking for advice on a movie script that they had written and the above was the plot and story line.! I could be wrong Even if it's not being sub-divided and you want to keep it as Torrens title, you will still need to talk to a town planner or Council themselves, to see if they will allow… 1 11230 We've had the offer of a short term tenant whilst waiting for CDC/DA home approval and demolition for our knock down rebuild. It would achieve a pretty low rent as it's… 0 13877 This was on google. Development controls 2.3.1 Front setback D1 New buildings within residential areas shall adhere to a front building line, which is 5.5-6m to the… 1 3733 |