Browse Forums Building A New House Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 61Sep 16, 2008 9:18 am The point of Dales thread is to illustrate the bad side of thios builder, it is not to give balance to them and make them look ok.
well it is good you got a good result. Unfortunately Dale and ourselves have been treated like crap. Our SC was also great however her hands were tied by head office who were pulling her strings. At the end of the day she can only do what she is told. The issues lay up the food chain with this organisation. If you are happy to pay what I personally believe are rip off prices for basic changes and to not ask for substanstiation then that is your choice. Wer'e not and look for value for money as Dale has also done and no doubt as many who have also pulled out and are not posting here. We exposed at least 6 major pricing errors or "bum plucks". When they were exposed they got narky exactly as Dale has described. They lowered on one item then raised several others to cover off what they had given back. Does this seem like ethical or professional behaviour? most definitely not. Dare question them and look out. And I will restate that anyone thinking of building with M should really have a long hard think about it. In my opinion, M seem to like "nodding dog heads" Pay the price, don't question. Ed at least in our case we have only paid the initial deposit for soil test and contour survey so we are not out of pocket by much and we still keep those reports. M could not even get us to PC. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 62Sep 16, 2008 9:50 am Peter_OZ The point of Dales thread is to illustrate the bad side of thios builder, it is not to give balance to them and make them look ok. Sorry Peter but this is a bit rich coming from you.... every thread that is about M here you have filled with your negativity... so a bit of balance may be required. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 63Sep 16, 2008 10:03 am No probs Peter, but I'd rather look at the big picture. I treated the whole experience as one where I was buying the whole house - not a collection of individual items on a contract. Yes, some extras seemed expensive, and others were dirt cheap ($100 odd for a large double glazed window for example).
Compare it to buying a car. If you want a new Holden Calais, and want the V8 version, are you really going to be upset at paying an extra $5200 over the V6 version? Can Holden justify the price difference? Of course not! When you tell them that the V8 should only cost an extra $2000, they have every right to say "We can't sell you the car you want." Truth is, there are plenty of V8 Calais' on the road, because at the end of the day the customer has got the product that he wants, even if he had to pay a premium for it. People can argue about the cost of extras in their new homes until the cows come home, but they will usually be the ones who do it the hard way and take years to build; it is easy to imagine that it will all end in tears for them. Best of luck to you. PS I think you could defuse this argument quite quickly by acknowledging that according to the opinions of a few, M should not be reccommended. [edited once to delete geographical references] Geoff - Decophile. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 64Sep 16, 2008 10:29 am I've said it before in your thread Peter and I'll say it again......
Time to move on. Happy at Home Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 65Sep 16, 2008 10:31 am As I mentioned in one of the other threads, it is important to keep in mind too that different states seem to have varying standards for ANY builder. Not only that, but the service you get varies dramatically based on WHO you're dealing with as well.
If we'd based our decision to build with UE on one sales rep we dealt with, I would've had a thread devoted to them all being liars and waving my arms telling people to build elsewhere. As it turns out, the people we ended up dealing with were some of the most lovely helpful people I've ever met! The moral of the story is, one person's experience is never going to be the same as another. There are too many variables. Whilst I think it is always great to warn people of your bad experience. It is important to be sensible and realise that M3tricon have plenty of very happy customers, just as they have plenty of unhappy ones. My brother and sister in law aren't their biggest fans at the moment either... but that is more to do with land delays than anything else. Alan and Thuy in Melbourne Building a second time! Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 66Sep 16, 2008 10:33 am Well said joles. We are dealing with M at the moment and have found them to be excellent. Our SC is great and is happy to explain why an upgrade is priced as it is. They certainly seem competitive with other builders we have looked at, including all of their major ones that build in our area.
M may not be right for everyone, but for some people they are. Just because someone chooses to build with them does not mean they are stupid, compliant, naieve or fools. Dale, good luck with Carlisle, they build gorgeous houses. Edited by Mod Visit my blog: http://damosbitofblog.blogspot.com/ Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 68Sep 16, 2008 10:38 am Paula Unfortunately I haven't built a house so I cant really comment, but its a very interesting discussion! Happy at Home Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 69Sep 16, 2008 11:04 am I agree there is good and bad with every company. To us, service was the issue rather than build quality or pricing per se.
We actually suggested how M3tricon could solve the problem but their back was up due to us talking to H3nley. We were making quite a few changes and perhaps it seemed to them that we weren't really candidates for a project home. However we happened to chance looking at a brand new design for M3tricon - namely the Fairhaven. It incorporated all the changes we had wanted to make. If we had gone with the Fairhaven only one minor change would have been required and everything else standard would have been perfect. We suggested that M3tricon allow us to swap over to that house and that would make the job easier for everyone. M3tricon refused and said we can't go changing our minds at this late stage. A partial credit towards a new house would have solved the issues for both sides and given M a good excuse for delaying the FC and we would have accepted that. It was just unfortunate that they were too angry to see a clear simple solution. In terms of upgrades we have found that some items are cheaper with Carlisle and some cheaper with M. Eg M3tricon was cheaper with the water tank but Carlisle was cheaper with lights, powerpoints, bi-folds, ducted vac system etc. Our sales consultant was very good but certainly her manager was not. When he sacked us there was nothing the sales rep could do and he should have handled it quite differently. Dale. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 70Sep 16, 2008 11:08 am This thread is interesting. Here is my 2 bobs worth, as a builders partner all I have to say is that if you want something in your build, be prepared to pay for it. If your not, then dont take that option. Simple. Or if you can do it cheaper after handover, great go for it, but be prepared for that change to be exempt from the guaranntee provided by the builder. A builder takes on a lot of responsibility, pays a lot of money for insurance and to be a registered builder. I hope you all understand that we also have bills to pay, and need to put food on the table. No one balks at paying a lawyer $200 an hour yet get all stroppy over a builder, this is what I don't understand.
In addition to this the project building game is totally different to the custom game, your sc is just an ex tradie, the compan only needs one reg builder and it's prob the head honcho who does nothing but sign off the permits etc. I discussed this thread with my partner at length, whom unfortunatley is so busy with work as he also runs a carpentry business with apprentices that is unable to contribute to this forum as I believe his knowledge and experience would be beneficial. He did however read this thread and was dissapointed in some of the comments. All he wanted to say about this is that if you think its all so easy and a rip off....do it your self. You take the time and effort to build your home and you tell me how much time and money such a project takes including any loss wages. If someone had come into my house (home office) and questioned every little cost, my partner no doubt as expressed after reading this thread would also decline to build the house. (infact a builder he knows did this, and as a result only does his own projects). He also said as explained by some above that he has the right to claim for any works done, any cost to him, including his time (which is currently at $50 p/h + gst as a chippy, the breakdown as a builder would be much more, however he has yet to be in a situation where his hourly rate as a builder is required). You better believe that a large project builder has more wages to pay than one person who is involved in any planning of your home. On behalf of my partner and I, we feel sorry for the people who have had good builds, and have had to endure the feeling of being a moron for deciding to use a particular builder. At the end of the day, project builders are more affordable than a custom one, however to get an affordable build I suppose something has got to give..... Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 71Sep 16, 2008 11:40 am Totally agree with everything you have said Jo.
Interesting to hear from the other side Minx, but I just wanted to say a couple of things: My partner and I (like most people) have worked bloody hard to be in a position to afford a house, we are never going to be rich and with a son to consider, every single cent of ours is precious to us. EVERTHING we have is going into buliding our house, I think not only do we have the right to question (and I do agree there is a differnce in questioning and carrying on) every single cost, but we have the responsibility to do so, especially when there are things we don't understand or feel are unreasonable. I also think it's unfair, as a couple of people have suggested in this thread - to say if you build with a big builder you have to accept a lower service of customer service than if you fork out the extra for a project builder. When you are talking about a familys everything and the most expensive thing a person will ever pay for, surely any builder has to expect to give a level of service that doesn't apply to most other industries. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 72Sep 16, 2008 12:07 pm Sharee Totally agree with everything you have said Jo. Interesting to hear from the other side Minx, but I just wanted to say a couple of things: My partner and I (like most people) have worked bloody hard to be in a position to afford a house, we are never going to be rich and with a son to consider, every single cent of ours is precious to us. EVERTHING we have is going into buliding our house, I think not only do we have the right to question (and I do agree there is a differnce in questioning and carrying on) every single cost, but we have the responsibility to do so, especially when there are things we don't understand or feel are unreasonable. I also think it's unfair, as a couple of people have suggested in this thread - to say if you build with a big builder you have to accept a lower service of customer service than if you fork out the extra for a project builder. When you are talking about a familys everything and the most expensive thing a person will ever pay for, surely any builder has to expect to give a level of service that doesn't apply to most other industries. Sharee, I totally agree with what you say. However, I do believe people underestimate the costs involved in building. I'll give you an example, a relative of mine wanted his house built at a budget of 350k. My partner priced it up at almost 500k, and this is without his standard 20% builders margin. The house was designed by a drafty and was over 40sq. The main cost was the foundations and retaining walls as there was quite a fall and they only wanted a sub floor to retain their views...... We went to the Henley display home, the house we saw was the Ascot which my partner and I really liked. When I inquired on the price as is, my partner was blown away. There was at least 3 jetmaster fireplaces in this house and my partner said there was no way that he could build a house like that for that price. He is simply small fish and does not have the buying power that the large builders have. My partner did however find quite a few faults in the display home quality wise. In addition, my partner does use quality sub contractors who would laugh at him if he offered anything but their rates which differs substantially to the rates big project builders pay. That above is one of many reasons that custon builders cannot compete price wise with the large volume builders. I know that building a house is alot of money, i'm spending 500k on mine and i agree that customer service principles should be altered, and for the better. I wouldn't have a clue how much material or a certain product costs, so how would a sales assistant know??? I can't speak for other builders but I can say that for us, the customer or investor is heavily involved in the building process, is in direct contact with the builder who can easily give the customer an estimate within a few minutes and guaranteed prices after some inquiries. In addition, the main contact (the builder) knows the BCA and all other relevant legislation. The downside is we don;t have a show room with selections as we don't have the budget for something abou that. This is not a custom vs volume thing, i'm just letting you all know our expereinces which is custom as that is what we are. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 73Sep 16, 2008 1:20 pm Yep my family owns a small business and anyone who makes a success out of it has my respect - it is hard work and I understand it is almost impossible for them to compete with the big fish! And defnitely us as customers (in whatever regard) should remember those on the otherside are just trying to protect their interests as we are.
I guess for me, I didn't expect my CSO to be an expert , but when I asked her questions that she didn't know the answer to, I expected her to be willing and able to find out the answers relatively quickly (boy did she fail at that ).. Sounds like your business provides a good service to your clients, my only point is that while there isn't an excuse for being unreasonable, we as customers investing so much of our money (and ourselves) have a right to demand a level of service proportionate to that investment. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 74Sep 16, 2008 1:28 pm I not specifically commenting the original poster here or anyone in particular, but I think sometimes there is an expectation of a champagne product on a beer budget.
Volume builders are just that, volume builders. They work on a production line, volume based business model with thin margins. To walk in expecting the same level of service as a custom builder who would charge the twice as much for the same product is somewhat naive IMO. I personally think the model is great, as it allows most to purchase a nice home within a "beer" budget. That said, I'm under no illusions that they offer a set package, and any extras will of course attract a premium. That's common sense. In the original posters instance, I'm very surprised the company would go to the extreme length of 'sacking' a client, and it would certainly affect their reputation adversely. However, after thousands of builds, they would know by now there are certain clients who have expectations that cannot be met by a volume builder and are better off taking their business to a custom builder who can give them the personal service they require. I still think it stinks though. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 75Sep 16, 2008 2:18 pm Forgive me if I am banging on a bit about this, but this 'your'e building a cheap home with a volume builder so you get what you get argument' hits close to home as it is a similar one that I actually had with someone from our building company,
Yep some people can definetely be unreasonable about what they expect from a volume builder , and if it was the structual changes or the demand for certain materials etc that led to a builder suggesting a client seek a project builders assistance, cool no worries. Now I realise in the particular case that started this thread that we obviously don't know all of the facts, but if it was the clients unrealistic expectation of service that led the builder to say bye. I think that is crap. To me (and I suppose this part is subjective) even though we are building a fairly modest home, $170K can never be described as a 'beer budget' (and yep I realise the point you were making with that phrase) to me, and I would hazard a guess to almost everyone, it is a massive amount of money and while I realise it isn't going to get me an archetictually designed home using all of the top of the line materials - I still think I (and everyone else)has an absolute right to demand it does gets me exceptional customer service. Now maybe you and I are speaking about customer service in different terms, because I don't think my money should buy me the right to make unreasonable structual changes or late alterations that would cost the builder money, but customer service in terms of a flexible attitude, honest and prompt replies to any questions and reasonably priced upgrades (that the company by pimping out their display homes to the max have done everything they can to pursuade me to get!) For me, considering this type of customer service, the profit margin of the company becomes totally irrelevant, it doesn't cost anything to provide this sort of service, it in fact builds business reputation and enhances business. This might be naive, but my sense of justice tells me it is what is fair. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 76Sep 16, 2008 2:34 pm Yep Sharee, I agree with everything you said except 170k is peanuts to me. If you believe that you'll believe anything....
I think the point Art was making and I agree with him, is that there seems to be a bit of a shift where sometimes people building with project builders (as both Sharee and I are) seem to expect what a custom builder can provide. Sharee from your posts I think you are completely realistic about the limitations that apply when building project, as am I. There are things I had to compromise on because I went project.... yep could have got them with a custom builder but I would have paid a lot more. We made a decision to go project but accepted the consequences... which was limitations. I think what Art was saying was that many people are basically expecting a custom build on a project builders budget. And he is right... it simply won't happen. I suggested to someone very early on that custom was the way for them to go considering their needs..... I could see that and I'm not in the industry.... but instead they continue to push for a "custom" build by a project builder and continue to be unsatisfied and continue to wonder why..... BUT as Sharee said, customer service and availability and the answering of reasonable questions should apply no matter who you build with. Jo I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 77Sep 16, 2008 3:13 pm joles There are things I had to compromise on because I went project.... yep could have got them with a custom builder but I would have paid a lot more. We made a decision to go project but accepted the consequences... which was limitations. We experienced this first hand and we are now 3 months behind schedule and considering going back to a project builder. I have to add also the prices you guys pay and the inclusions on the East Coast are incredible. The whole set up over there is amazing. Your display homes are beautiful and well designed and they give you so many options..... that the add ons are a very high spec. Even the websites are more professional. Our pricing structure over here is completely different...yes we are all brick interior walls and I am sure that comes into it..........but your "bang for your buck" over there is fantastic. There is so much on offer with your project builders for the prices that if you have to add inclusions that are pricey, you might just have to suck it up because they are so much cheaper on alot of other things. Hubby asked only last night do you think they(East Coast Project Builder)could build us a house and ship it over....it will still probably be cheaper. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 78Sep 16, 2008 3:20 pm This idea that custom builders are neccesarily better is a bit dubious too - like volume builders there will be good and bad stories.
My parents built with a custom builder a few years ago and had quite a few problems - plumbing set up wrong, kitchen hassles, balustrade delivered in wrong colour etc - and that's before the builder went bankrupt and house finish got delayed by 2 years Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 79Sep 16, 2008 3:56 pm Sharee To me (and I suppose this part is subjective) even though we are building a fairly modest home, $170K can never be described as a 'beer budget' (and yep I realise the point you were making with that phrase) to me, and I would hazard a guess to almost everyone, it is a massive amount of money and while I realise it isn't going to get me an archetictually designed home using all of the top of the line materials - I still think I (and everyone else)has an absolute right to demand it does gets me exceptional customer service. Just to clarify. I'm definitely not attempting to be critical of any particular person here, and I am quite sure you were being reasonable in your requirements. I still don't agree with the argument that 'because it's a large amount of money, I expect exceptional service'. My point is that $170,000 is absolutely CHEAP when you can get a 25-30sq home, a mansion by any definition of the word, for about 3 and bit years average wages. It may still be a LOT of money, but it is not a lot for what you receive, considering a custom builder would charge 300,000+ for a similar product. That's the point I am trying to make. If they make the claim that they provide exceptional customer service, then it becomes a different story entirely. Taking it further, because it is so cheap for what you receive, the profit margin is quite small. For their business model to work, they can't provide personal service where someone is always waiting to take your call with any questions, queries or comments. The argument goes, you buy the product, and as long is it delivered to specs and on time, you have minimal reason to complain. Any upgrades are valued added, and will attract a premium, because the "shell" of the product is so cheap. That's the rules of the game, and I guess, if people don't like them, there are million custom builders out there who will provide exceptional customer service. But you will pay for it in higher prices. Re: M3tricon has sacked us - Absolutely amazing 80Sep 16, 2008 4:14 pm I was disheartened by some comments made...
although I sympathise with people who had unfortunate dealings with M, i just hope that we don't get insulted if we chose to build with M. We moved from one builder to another ( PD, M, AVJ then back to M), changed houses 6 times.. because we felt that it is either: - not the house that we really want, - bad customer service - we were being ripped off so we moved on and went to other builders. It costed us 3 soil tests and several deposits (some were not refunded anymore as we were at contract stage already). We changed houses 3x with M, and they were more than willing to accept our decision. We even requested to change our original SC, as she wasn't that knowledgeable with all the upgrades that we were after. We had compared quotes, questioned them, and bargain with them. If we felt that the upgrades were a rip off, then we just removed them from the quote (like the carpets and tiles). Dale, wish you all the best with your dealings with Carlisle. Hope you build the house that you really love. EDITED BY MOD ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Built the Nevada 42 Next project - landscaping! I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15275 4 14294 Thank you so much. This has been very helpful. We definitely wish to settle and get these people out of our life. They are trying to charge us interest on late… 7 14266 |