Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 7Oct 11, 2018 1:12 pm kathysangel owner406 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Please offer any insight / advice!!! Independent Inspector has reported a Surface Drainage defect to Boundary Wall (the house on the left) -it runs through both class 10 and class 1 areas. (Garage and Living Area) Weepholes have been deemed non compliant - too low - by the RBS but he deems Surface Drainage compliant. The Builder would like to rectify the defect by constructing a spoon drain along the wall and also a retaining wall 200m out from the wall, on the neighbouring property. I have spoken to VBA technical advice staff, who have said what they are offering is a good outcome. Independent Inspector has said the rectification does not make the area compliant as it is on the neighbouring property. VBA technical advice also stated that we may spend a lot of time and money fighting this and not ever get the wall redone. I am worried about the cost of a construction lawyer which is the only option left for us, if it isn’t going to get the wall demolished and re built to compliance. Thoughts? The contract states the builder needs to build to code. The Building surveyor has signed off and issued Occupancy Certificate. The Independent Inspector we have used throughout the build is the one stating it is non compliant. To get anywhere at this stage quickly, we would need to engage the services of a Construction Lawyer and go down the path of Breach of Contract. It just seems messy and expensive. I hope all your issues get fixed!! Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 8Oct 11, 2018 9:39 pm kathysangel owner406 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Please offer any insight / advice!!! Independent Inspector has reported a Surface Drainage defect to Boundary Wall (the house on the left) -it runs through both class 10 and class 1 areas. (Garage and Living Area) Weepholes have been deemed non compliant - too low - by the RBS but he deems Surface Drainage compliant. The Builder would like to rectify the defect by constructing a spoon drain along the wall and also a retaining wall 200m out from the wall, on the neighbouring property. I have spoken to VBA technical advice staff, who have said what they are offering is a good outcome. Independent Inspector has said the rectification does not make the area compliant as it is on the neighbouring property. VBA technical advice also stated that we may spend a lot of time and money fighting this and not ever get the wall redone. I am worried about the cost of a construction lawyer which is the only option left for us, if it isn’t going to get the wall demolished and re built to compliance. Thoughts? It is up to the home owner to hand the report to the builder and request the items be rectified. Should the builder offer an alternative solution or fix, they have to have their engineer sign off on it. Thanks Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 9Oct 11, 2018 9:49 pm owner406 kathysangel owner406 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Please offer any insight / advice!!! Independent Inspector has reported a Surface Drainage defect to Boundary Wall (the house on the left) -it runs through both class 10 and class 1 areas. (Garage and Living Area) Weepholes have been deemed non compliant - too low - by the RBS but he deems Surface Drainage compliant. The Builder would like to rectify the defect by constructing a spoon drain along the wall and also a retaining wall 200m out from the wall, on the neighbouring property. I have spoken to VBA technical advice staff, who have said what they are offering is a good outcome. Independent Inspector has said the rectification does not make the area compliant as it is on the neighbouring property. VBA technical advice also stated that we may spend a lot of time and money fighting this and not ever get the wall redone. I am worried about the cost of a construction lawyer which is the only option left for us, if it isn’t going to get the wall demolished and re built to compliance. Thoughts? The contract states the builder needs to build to code. The Building surveyor has signed off and issued Occupancy Certificate. The Independent Inspector we have used throughout the build is the one stating it is non compliant. To get anywhere at this stage quickly, we would need to engage the services of a Construction Lawyer and go down the path of Breach of Contract. It just seems messy and expensive. I hope all your issues get fixed!! Better off just getting an engineer to sign off on a solution, build it and move on. You will be fine, just keep talking to your builder. Thanks Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 10Oct 11, 2018 10:52 pm What do your plans show? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 11Oct 12, 2018 12:21 am The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 12Oct 12, 2018 5:53 pm iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 13Oct 12, 2018 6:12 pm sweetswisssteel iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". This is correct , but can’t be upto much as an engineer if he signs off on it The builder has stuffed up and needs to accept responsibility , imho it clearly shows a lack of site supervision and should have been picked up on a lot sooner , How some of these so called trades have licences is a joke as nobody gives a s### always pass it down the line to next trades problem it’s a complete joke It’s gone through , concreter with slab , carpenter with frame , bricklayer and renderer and not One if them thought hang on we have a problem here with design ? Feel for the op Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 14Oct 12, 2018 9:56 pm Tim65 sweetswisssteel iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". This is correct , but can’t be upto much as an engineer if he signs off on it The builder has stuffed up and needs to accept responsibility , imho it clearly shows a lack of site supervision and should have been picked up on a lot sooner , How some of these so called trades have licences is a joke as nobody gives a s### always pass it down the line to next trades problem it’s a complete joke It’s gone through , concreter with slab , carpenter with frame , bricklayer and renderer and not One if them thought hang on we have a problem here with design ? Feel for the op The builder seems to know that they have stuffed up but to their credit they are working with the OP to try and find an alternative solution. I reckon the next royal commission will be into the residential housing Industry. Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 15Oct 12, 2018 9:57 pm sweetswisssteel iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". Doesn't have to comply, as long as an engineer signs off on alternate solution. The building code cannot possibly cover every single scenario. Cheers Agreed, but standards set the minimum requirements/benchmark rather than some lofty ideal - therefore alternate solutions need to achieve the same or better outcome, and any competent engineer should be able to demonstrate how the alternate solution does this. If they can do this for a solution that can be achieved within the OP's property then great, but as I said, an alternate solution that relies on works within the neighbouring property that the OP has no ongoing control over is a poor outcome. Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 16Oct 12, 2018 11:58 pm iTool sweetswisssteel iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". Doesn't have to comply, as long as an engineer signs off on alternate solution. The building code cannot possibly cover every single scenario. Cheers Agreed, but standards set the minimum requirements/benchmark rather than some lofty ideal - therefore alternate solutions need to achieve the same or better outcome, and any competent engineer should be able to demonstrate how the alternate solution does this. If they can do this for a solution that can be achieved within the OP's property then great, but as I said, an alternate solution that relies on works within the neighbouring property that the OP has no ongoing control over is a poor outcome. Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 17Oct 16, 2018 1:47 pm iTool sweetswisssteel iTool The arrangement as it stands does not appear to comply with AS2870 Residential slabs and footings, specifically Clause 5.2.1: "The ground in the immediate vicinity of the perimeter footing, including the ground uphill from the slab on cut-and-fill sites, shall be graded to fall 50 mm minimum away from the footing over a distance of 1 m and shaped to prevent ponding of water." Point this out to your surveyor and ask him to explain how on earth the surface grading as shown satisfies this requirement? It's a structural defect and I would not be accepting handover. A solution that relies on a retaining wall being constructed in the neighbouring property may be technically feasible but seems fraught with risk. Sure, the neighbour might agree to it now but what if they (or a subsequent owner of that property) change their minds down the track and decide to remove it? If it was me, I'd be having a quiet discussion with the neighbour and maybe they'll "see the light" - if they refuse to allow works in their property, your builder has to come up with a solution within the confines of your own property. I can't see one that doesn't involve reconstructing that zero lot boundary wall... hopefully you've got a decent daily amount for late completion damages in your contract. My builder tried to go down the same path as yours - even though our garage is 750mm off the boundary, I'm so glad I was like a bulldog with them at the design stage and made them include a course of tanked blockwork upon which the brickwork and DPC sit. I almost fell off my chair when the builder's draftsman suggested that we could just "push soil up against the wall". Doesn't have to comply, as long as an engineer signs off on alternate solution. The building code cannot possibly cover every single scenario. Cheers Agreed, but standards set the minimum requirements/benchmark rather than some lofty ideal - therefore alternate solutions need to achieve the same or better outcome, and any competent engineer should be able to demonstrate how the alternate solution does this. If they can do this for a solution that can be achieved within the OP's property then great, but as I said, an alternate solution that relies on works within the neighbouring property that the OP has no ongoing control over is a poor outcome. Unfortunately, despite all my efforts, continually bringing up sections of the Building Code and also our Independent Building Inspector contacting the General Manager multiple times, nothing is making the Building Company or the Building Surveyor budge. Itool, I’m glad you knew to address this issue at the Design stage. I know that Builders do things wrong sometimes but like another poster said, to go through so many trades and the Building Surveyor without anyone addressing the issue, even when it was raised as a defect by the independent Inspector at Frame Stage. We have engaged the services of an Independent Engineer who will a prepare a report. The only hope I feel we really have at this stage is that going to the DBDRV may be able to offer some assistance, although I know we are in for a lengthy wait. Hopefully anyone that has a similar site, sees this post before they begin construction and learns from our experiences. Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 19Nov 01, 2018 9:50 am Tim65 Any update on how it’s turned out ? At this stage, nothing further has happened. The retaining wall / spoon drain on the adjacent property has been completed. -Which I think they have actually somehow convinced the neighbour to pay for part of. I have received an email from the technical department at then VBA which states that, yes the Builder and Building Surveyor should have done something about the area sooner. This will be useful. I have contacted Consumer Affairs about the Builder including their preferred Building Surveyor in the Contract. I need to follow up with the VBA but they seem to think we may have a case. The Builder has finally admitted that yes the wall should have been constructed differently. Their solution for altering the adjacent property though, to make it seem like there is no longer a problem, does not fix the defect on our property. Not fixing the actual defect makes them in breech of their contract - not building to code. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to engage the services of a construction Lawyer which would possibly could have the issue sorted in 2 weeks. The only option left for us is the DPBRV, which is a very long, drawn out process. We have handover next week but will be issuing the Builder with a statement to say we do not accept the rectifications offered. The System definitely favours the Builder. For 4 months I was told by the Builder and Building Surveyor there wasn’t an issue. They wear you down and you are left out of pocket, just to get your house built how your contract states. Re: Surface Drainage Defect / Construction Lawyer 20Nov 01, 2018 10:37 am iTool Agreed, but standards set the minimum requirements/benchmark rather than some lofty ideal - therefore alternate solutions need to achieve the same or better outcome, The BCA comprises Parts 1 & 2 of the NCC. The BCA references Australian Standards. The BCA is the primary document and has hierarchy over referenced AS. The BCA is a performance based document and a Performance Solution, previously called an Alternative Solution, only needs to be certified as meeting the performance requirement of the NCC. There are numerous examples of Performance Solutions that do not not meet the documented requirements of either the BCA or AS. Many of these Performance Solutions are already included in builder's contracts and common examples include recessed DPC which is also against brick manufacturer's requirements, water resistant instead of waterproofing finishes in wet areas and weaker mortar mix in brickwork. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. 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