Lifesize Plans - Anyone used them?

Cooky · Aug 02, 2018 9:48 pm

Hi all,

We have drawn up our concept sketch and are pretty happy with it the way it is, but before our Architect draws up the plans in CAD, we are thinking of going to Lifesize Plans and getting a feel of the space.

Has anyone used them? What was your experience?

Any advice is appreciated.

TIA

StructuralBIMGuy · Aug 03, 2018 7:43 am

cooky, I wouldn't get too excited with chalking out the actual house size, so you can visualise it in 2D,(Ie length & Width)
Augmented & Virtual Virtual Reality 3D (ie length,Width & height) has been around for several years now,
Insist on 3D BIM with Certified Engineering, Data and proofs.More to follow
Once you move past visualisation of colours and size, the biggest issue the Battlers & Punters will have is lack of certified construction & Engineering details,material substitution, non compliance, Site inspections, warranties and structural repairs, etc,etc. Please don't get mesmerised by what you think it's going to look like, as most technology is designed for marketing only, while on site it's the same old Bulldust. hth

Cooky · Aug 03, 2018 6:48 pm

Hi StructuralBIMGuy thanks very much for your advice.

The issue I have, is we are having both my parents and my father in law moving in with us, both who have a fair number of health issues and need space to accommodate their living arrangements. So, for us understanding an getting a feel of the space is actually crucial before we move to CAD final drawings as any changes after that point will cost us more.

Our house is 43 sqm at the moment, and I was hoping that by being able to physically walk through our floor plan we would be able to determine where we may need more space and potentially where we could cut down (if at all). I am not worried about the looks of the house at this stage - just how large the spaces are and overall functionality/practicality.

kjane · Aug 03, 2018 7:52 pm

Hi Cooky,

I can't give any advice on life size plans but noticed in your reply above that the purpose is largely to be mindful of aging relatives needs. So good to be thinking ahead like that, as a health care worker I wish everybody would

It may be a good idea to speak with an occupational therapist who would be able to advise you on circulation spaces required for people using mobility aids or wheelchairs, door widths, hobless showers, noggins for rails placement, heights for hand held showers, space for showering equipment, counter heights, access space for vanities, kitchen layout planning etc etc depending on their current and predicted future needs.

You could also take a look at the Australian Standards AS1428.1 which could give you some pointers of what to look at in terms of space and room sizes.

kks · Aug 03, 2018 8:16 pm

Guess you might have already seen this Liveability Housing Design booklet. I found that the three level standard approach really focussed us on practical planning for movement.

http://livablehousingaustralia.org.au/l ... s_Web1.pdf

Cooky · Aug 03, 2018 10:21 pm

kjane

Hi Cooky,

I can't give any advice on life size plans but noticed in your reply above that the purpose is largely to be mindful of aging relatives needs. So good to be thinking ahead like that, as a health care worker I wish everybody would

It may be a good idea to speak with an occupational therapist who would be able to advise you on circulation spaces required for people using mobility aids or wheelchairs, door widths, hobless showers, noggins for rails placement, heights for hand held showers, space for showering equipment, counter heights, access space for vanities, kitchen layout planning etc etc depending on their current and predicted future needs.

You could also take a look at the Australian Standards AS1428.1 which could give you some pointers of what to look at in terms of space and room sizes.

Hi kjane! Yes, we have considered what we need as a family and it's incredibly vital that our home makes our parents comfortable, particularly into old age. We will be caring for them full time and also want to ensure that it's possible for us to manage that.

Believe it or not, one of my best friends is an OT and her partner is a civil engineer! Got lucky there. We've gone through our design with her and made considerations wherever possible/necessary however she suggested going back and looking at walkways/access ways, living spaces and overall space, particularly if one or more ends up needing a wheelchair or something of that nature.

We thought by using the services by LSP, we'd get an idea of whether our hallways, rooms, bathrooms etc were big enough as it is or if we needed to widen them.

Cooky · Aug 03, 2018 10:23 pm

kks

Guess you might have already seen this Liveability Housing Design booklet. I found that the three level standard approach really focussed us on practical planning for movement.

http://livablehousingaustralia.org.au/l ... s_Web1.pdf

Hi kks, yep we looked through this with our Architect before doing up the concept designs. We hope we have covered most things, but as an added step, we were considering the walj through.

kks · Aug 04, 2018 1:13 pm

Hi Cooky, glad you have seen that liveable housing resource. What we found interesting - planning a home for our later, creaky, years - was that the approaches and inclusions recommended in that document invariably led to a better house overall. Simple ideas like space around the wc, slightly wider corridors/doors, and noggins in the wall for future grab rails are no-brainers for a better living environment. The Poms are doing a lot of work in this area and they got me thinking about car-parking arrangements, too. This is a useful link to the UK initiatives:

http://www.lifetimehomes.org.uk/index.php

One of the significant shifts in home technology of late is the vast drop in the cost of including a home lift in a build. Really changes the way a house can be be designed for those with challenged movement and so much more attractive than stair-lifts. (Although the stair-lift does have a role to play.)

A reality that must be faced in designing a home for an additional three folk of the previous generation has to involve both their living/social space and you, your partner, and kids' space. How are you and your designer tackling this parameter?

I guess all here are going to be fascinated by the way your project develops. It's one that is acknowledging the sort of challenge that many caring families are shaping up to in today's Australia.

kjane · Aug 04, 2018 1:39 pm

Agree with everything you have said kks. I also like that building accessible homes now doesn't mean that your home looks purpose built for accessibility, when care and thought is put into the design stage. I would be very keen to see your plans in the future and all the best with the process.

StructuralBIMGuy · Aug 05, 2018 9:47 am

Hi cooky
If you are on a tight budget, steer well clear of gimmicks and expensive design services that work on high commissions,
Here in WA it is illegal not to disclose hidden commissions
If you have a sketch start breaking it down , in order to optimise the engineering, Construction , material, quoting,etc
Forewarned is Forearmed

kks · Aug 05, 2018 3:05 pm

And talk about serendipity...SMH and Cenrelink+parents'stuff....

https://www.smh.com.au/money/planning-a ... 4zv1g.html

Cooky · Aug 05, 2018 11:52 pm

kks

Hi Cooky, glad you have seen that liveable housing resource. What we found interesting - planning a home for our later, creaky, years - was that the approaches and inclusions recommended in that document invariably led to a better house overall. Simple ideas like space around the wc, slightly wider corridors/doors, and noggins in the wall for future grab rails are no-brainers for a better living environment. The Poms are doing a lot of work in this area and they got me thinking about car-parking arrangements, too. This is a useful link to the UK initiatives:

http://www.lifetimehomes.org.uk/index.php

One of the significant shifts in home technology of late is the vast drop in the cost of including a home lift in a build. Really changes the way a house can be be designed for those with challenged movement and so much more attractive than stair-lifts. (Although the stair-lift does have a role to play.)

A reality that must be faced in designing a home for an additional three folk of the previous generation has to involve both their living/social space and you, your partner, and kids' space. How are you and your designer tackling this parameter?

I guess all here are going to be fascinated by the way your project develops. It's one that is acknowledging the sort of challenge that many caring families are shaping up to in today's Australia.

Hi kks, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I will look into the car parking too. I honestly didn't think much of that at all.

In terms of managing living spaces, there's a rumpus room upstairs that the kids can enjoy and downstairs there are 2 living areas. One is a small one at the entrance, which my FIL will use and the larger family area will be used by my parents and FIL too if he wishes!

They will each have tvs in their room so theres that option too. My main focus, I guess is ensuring that they feel comfortable anywhere in the house. We sold our home not long ago and live with my parents in their home now. It's average size and has 2 living spaces, but we find ourselves watching tv together after dinner and then pretty much all heading to bed.

We also have a large alfresco area where we mostly entertain our friends and family, so for my parents thats not a huge change to how they socialise. We will have soundtek gyprock and noise cancelling insulation in their rooms too, so if our friends stay over a bit longer, they should be able to sleep with minimum disruption. In terms of my FIL, he is in his 70s and has sadly already said goodbye to many of his close friends either through their passing or through moving. He has 5 close friends remaining through church that he visits at a local cafe twice a week and he is happy with that. Anything more seems to exhaust him so I dont anticipate him wanting friends over, but he is of course welcome to at anytime.

The home will be as much theirs as it is ours. That's important to me. I would hate walking into a home and feeling displaced and thats the last thing i want for them.

Other things we've considered is shower access, size, shower seating (future need), accessibility around the house to bathrooms, type of joinery (my mum has severe athritis and sometimes cant pull drawers) and were also putting in a heated pool with built in jets for their exercise.

There's been so much to consider and so much im sure ive missed, but at this stage if i can get the overall flow and sizing right, the rest will follow

Cooky · Aug 05, 2018 11:55 pm

kjane

Agree with everything you have said kks. I also like that building accessible homes now doesn't mean that your home looks purpose built for accessibility, when care and thought is put into the design stage. I would be very keen to see your plans in the future and all the best with the process.

Thanks kjane i will happily share as im keen to get opinions! Its so easy to miss things. Hopefully if we do this right, it will suit my husband and i into our old age also.

Cooky · Aug 06, 2018 12:05 am

StructuralBIMGuy

Hi cooky
If you are on a tight budget, steer well clear of gimmicks and expensive design services that work on high commissions,
Here in WA it is illegal not to disclose hidden commissions
If you have a sketch start breaking it down , in order to optimise the engineering, Construction , material, quoting,etc
Forewarned is Forearmed

Hi StructuralBIMGuy thanks for the advice. This is I guess why I was hoping to have gotten some feedback on this company specifically.

They dont provide a design service so to speak. You pay $1050 and have about 1.5 hours to actually walk through your floor plan and have the changes you need recorded by their in house Architect. The floorplan is 'printed' on the floor of large warehouse as if it was 'lifesize'. They have foam walls you can move around and furniture in place to give you an idea of how wide/big, small etc the spaces are, whether you want to move walls and which way doors turn, determining if staircases are wide enough and things like that. For us, taking a wheelchair through the house is one exercise we'd like to do.

We are not going with a project builder, so everything we're doing is an independent decision and a big on at that. Our budget is around 500k, so 1k of that to really get an idea of the space, understand what we want and make changes before we go to the final stage doesn't seem like a huge expense.

StructuralBIMGuy · Aug 06, 2018 8:48 am

Cooky thanks for the info/reply
Your budget sounds tight

I am a little sceptical as Architects offer mock ups on high end projects and I doubt your builder employs an architect?
(you might want to check that). In regards to lifts, sure everyone says they have come down in price, Installed the prices are still very high.
OT I am about to build 4 units/townhouses in Perth for elderly/special needs family & friends, My costs are running at $1500/m2

Cooky · Aug 06, 2018 10:06 am

StructuralBIMGuy

@Cooky thanks for the info/reply
Your budget sounds tight

I am a little sceptical as Architects offer mock ups on high end projects and I doubt your builder employs an architect?
(you might want to check that). In regards to lifts, sure everyone says they have come down in price, Installed the prices are still very high.
OT I am about to build 4 units/townhouses in Perth for elderly/special needs family & friends, My costs are running at $1500/m2

StructuralBIMGuy, thanks again for your insight. $1500/m2 is about what project builders charge in NSW too, but this varies based on the size of the builder. Small, local builders are a different thing though.

Out builder is not even decided yet. We approached a large number of project builders such as Masterton/Clarendon etc but found them simply ripping us off before the build even started. I have built and renovated before with a local builder and my costs were significantly less than going with a project builder based on tender comparisons and eventual costs. The obvious downside is I do have to do a lot of sourcing myself and product selection isnt in one nice showroom, but I am 100% okay with that.

Presently, we are working with our Architect who is independent and not affiliated with any builder. We'll then approach the local builders I have ready to quote us to move forward to the next stage. The big project builders quoted us roughly between 500 to 550k on our build with all high end inclusions and slight modifications, so I aim for lower with a small local builder. We have a contigency of about $100k also, do you think that's enough? Or am I kidding myself?

StructuralBIMGuy · Aug 07, 2018 8:54 am

Cooky My costs of $1500/m2 are for 4 x 2 bedroom 2S Units, includes 8 half bathrooms and 4 kitchens.
I have a contingency of 10% for upgrades and have preliminary design, engineering & Construction Data & Costs figured.
Building costs in Perth haven't been this low in a decade, eg Labour & Material for 2c bricks $1.80
Subsequently, Builders do not put down the prices of new builds, when things slow, they keep the prices inflated and increase the so called give away's..but in reality they aren't giving anything away.If your designer/Architect is using Building Information (BIM) I suggest you start pricing things up for yourself, don't mention the $100k Contingency, get them to sharpen their quoting pencil or crayon, while you use BIM (Data, Augmented & Virtual Reality for visualisation) & Google+ sheets for pricing & Analysis.