My builder brought a thermal camera the other day and scanned the walls and roof of the house with me. Checking against the cornices where walls and ceilings meet, the thermal camera showed very bright colour indicating considerable heat loss.
My builder said that it is common with greater heat loss at the cornices, as there is no insulation behind them. They only insulate walls and roof ceilings, but never the joints between walls and ceilings
Is that fair statement?
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Browse Forums Building A New House  23 Jul 2016 46 VIC Junior Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 3Jan 31, 2018 8:17 pm  VariegatedIt's not true in my build. Given that holesof about 5% can reduce your insulation value by up to 30% (as for downlights), leaving gaps behind cornices would mean that they are basically wasting their time in installing, and your money - on an ongoing basis. I wouldn't be happy with that situation at all. Hi Variegated, did your builder put insulation batts behind your cornices? My builder said with certainty that it is common to not insulate behind the cornices... and they are a large builder in Victoria. However, I've always had to take what they say with a pinch of salt, as I don't really trust them.. Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 6Feb 01, 2018 5:31 am That is ******* AF! I had a similar issue where Metricon were not insulating my house in large areas of external wall. Eg around bath hob, behind overhead kitchen cabinets and in service voids. I too was not happy. When I spoke to the technical manager at Bradford, this is what I learnt. In NSW, All developments must have a BASIX rating which aims to reduce the consumption of water and energy and limit greenhouse gas emissions. There should be a similar measure in your state based on NCC requirements. The rating is a number. Part of your building approval requires your builder to achieve that rating. To calculate the number, they use software based on your Auto-Cad Drawings. One of the KEY INPUTS to the calculation is External wall insulation. Ie you enter the r rating of the wall insulation. The software assumes ALL external wall areas will be insulated except for windows. This is because that is the manufacturers recommendation on how external wall insulation must be installed. I know this because I spoke to the independent consultant who Metricon paid to calculate my BASIX rating. Therefore, if any external wall area is uninsulated, like shown in your photo, the builder has not complied with the submitted BASIX rating (or similar) and is therefore in breach of contract and in breach of the building permit. Make sure you are there on the day of plaster boarding. Take photos of all the walls and ceilings so that you know the insulation is there. Do not let them cow manure you. Best of luck. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Cheers Nom Newhaven 36 by M Blog - North Shore Newhaven (http://nsnewhaven.blogspot.com.au) Build - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=85092 23 Jul 2016 46 VIC Junior Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 7Feb 01, 2018 9:16 am  nomnomnomThat is ******* AF! I had a similar issue where Metricon were not insulating my house in large areas of external wall. Eg around bath hob, behind overhead kitchen cabinets and in service voids. I too was not happy. When I spoke to the technical manager at Bradford, this is what I learnt. In NSW, All developments must have a BASIX rating which aims to reduce the consumption of water and energy and limit greenhouse gas emissions. There should be a similar measure in your state based on NCC requirements. The rating is a number. Part of your building approval requires your builder to achieve that rating. To calculate the number, they use software based on your Auto-Cad Drawings. One of the KEY INPUTS to the calculation is External wall insulation. Ie you enter the r rating of the wall insulation. The software assumes ALL external wall areas will be insulated except for windows. This is because that is the manufacturers recommendation on how external wall insulation must be installed. I know this because I spoke to the independent consultant who Metricon paid to calculate my BASIX rating. Therefore, if any external wall area is uninsulated, like shown in your photo, the builder has not complied with the submitted BASIX rating (or similar) and is therefore in breach of contract and in breach of the building permit. Make sure you are there on the day of plaster boarding. Take photos of all the walls and ceilings so that you know the insulation is there. Do not let them cow manure you. Best of luck. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Really appreciated your comment... The house is already built and handed over.. But recently I have called in the builder to do an insulation check with a thermal camera, and that's how I found out that all of my ceiling edges are not insulated and the camera showed very bright colours meaning great heat loss/gain. They are Pink batts manufactured by Fletcher Insulation. I just called Fletcher Insulation and they said it's not their business and that I'd have to go back and speak to my builder to discuss this. But I know my builder will just keep saying to me it is normal Do I need to escalate this matter to some sort of building committee? Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 8Feb 01, 2018 10:08 am nomnomnomThat is ******* AF! I had a similar issue where Metricon were not insulating my house in large areas of external wall. Eg around bath hob, behind overhead kitchen cabinets and in service voids. I too was not happy. When I spoke to the technical manager at Bradford, this is what I learnt. In NSW, All developments must have a BASIX rating which aims to reduce the consumption of water and energy and limit greenhouse gas emissions. There should be a similar measure in your state based on NCC requirements. The rating is a number. Part of your building approval requires your builder to achieve that rating. To calculate the number, they use software based on your Auto-Cad Drawings. One of the KEY INPUTS to the calculation is External wall insulation. Ie you enter the r rating of the wall insulation. The software assumes ALL external wall areas will be insulated except for windows. This is because that is the manufacturers recommendation on how external wall insulation must be installed. I know this because I spoke to the independent consultant who Metricon paid to calculate my BASIX rating. Therefore, if any external wall area is uninsulated, like shown in your photo, the builder has not complied with the submitted BASIX rating (or similar) and is therefore in breach of contract and in breach of the building permit. Make sure you are there on the day of plaster boarding. Take photos of all the walls and ceilings so that you know the insulation is there. Do not let them cow manure you. Best of luck. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I second all of this! Those gaps are unacceptable and not normal! Insulation should be fitted tightly (not compressed) with no gaps. I had a similar fight, builder was on my side, bradford's installers were just sh*! at their job. They were made to come back 3 times to fix it. The installers issue a certificate which is what the Building Surveyor uses when they sign off on the COO. I will get in the ceiling to check before our 3 month inspection ( I wasn't allowed while it was the builders site) if I find it's still not right, none of them will ever hear the end of it! 23 Jul 2016 46 VIC Junior Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 9Feb 01, 2018 11:13 am  bank nomnomnomThat is ******* AF! I had a similar issue where Metricon were not insulating my house in large areas of external wall. Eg around bath hob, behind overhead kitchen cabinets and in service voids. I too was not happy. When I spoke to the technical manager at Bradford, this is what I learnt. In NSW, All developments must have a BASIX rating which aims to reduce the consumption of water and energy and limit greenhouse gas emissions. There should be a similar measure in your state based on NCC requirements. The rating is a number. Part of your building approval requires your builder to achieve that rating. To calculate the number, they use software based on your Auto-Cad Drawings. One of the KEY INPUTS to the calculation is External wall insulation. Ie you enter the r rating of the wall insulation. The software assumes ALL external wall areas will be insulated except for windows. This is because that is the manufacturers recommendation on how external wall insulation must be installed. I know this because I spoke to the independent consultant who Metricon paid to calculate my BASIX rating. Therefore, if any external wall area is uninsulated, like shown in your photo, the builder has not complied with the submitted BASIX rating (or similar) and is therefore in breach of contract and in breach of the building permit. Make sure you are there on the day of plaster boarding. Take photos of all the walls and ceilings so that you know the insulation is there. Do not let them cow manure you. Best of luck. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I second all of this! Those gaps are unacceptable and not normal! Insulation should be fitted tightly (not compressed) with no gaps. I had a similar fight, builder was on my side, bradford's installers were just sh*! at their job. They were made to come back 3 times to fix it. The installers issue a certificate which is what the Building Surveyor uses when they sign off on the COO. I will get in the ceiling to check before our 3 month inspection ( I wasn't allowed while it was the builders site) if I find it's still not right, none of them will ever hear the end of it! I entirely feel for you.. My insulation installers messed up big time with my house for the first time they installed the batts. Lots of gaps all over the walls and ceilings, and they came back many times to fix them. Even now, lots of batts are not tightly fit, but compressed. I have no way to fix those issues as plasterboards are put on, and the house is handed over. The builder has been saying with certainty that the gaps along the ceiling edges do not need to be insulated, and my bad I took their word for it! In my case, my builder and the insulation installers are on the same side, both saying it is COMMON Practice not to insulate the ceiling edges. But as we see in the photos, it is ridiculous as those edges are huge loopholes for heat loss/gain. And such gaps are all over the place around the entire house. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 10Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm Zhenhua, I don't actually have cornices - they are square set. I also have water and air tightness membranes and Kingspan aircell in the walls, with insulation batts in the ceilings - there is no gap anywhere. I think that "normal" and "common practice" do not equal right or properly done, and would definitely followup with the builder. Variegated 23 Jul 2016 46 VIC Junior Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 11Feb 01, 2018 8:16 pm VariegatedZhenhua, I don't actually have cornices - they are square set. I also have water and air tightness membranes and Kingspan aircell in the walls, with insulation batts in the ceilings - there is no gap anywhere. I think that "normal" and "common practice" do not equal right or properly done, and would definitely followup with the builder. Thanks Variegated. I have lodged complaint via VBA (Victoria Building Authority). I will see what they say.. 29 Apr 2016 371 ACT Gold Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 12Feb 01, 2018 8:55 pm My builder actually bought this up when we were 'interviewing' him as a prospective builder. According to him it's quite common, because most builders just use traditional roof truss sizing, which doesn't allow enough space to fit modern insulation batts properly over the walls - so they either compress the insulation to fit it in (which destroys much of its effectiveness), or just finish the insulation short, leaving a gap (which, as pointed out, makes a mockery of the modelled energy rating). Simply specifying the roof trusses to have a 150mm chord overhang is simple and easy to do, gives enough space for an R6 or R7 batt to cover the wall, and doesn't make the truss any more complex - so there's really no excuse for builders not to do it. Good luck with the VBA! 23 Jul 2016 46 VIC Junior Member Re: Do builders usually insulate behind the cornices? 13Feb 01, 2018 9:29 pm  algernonMy builder actually bought this up when we were 'interviewing' him as a prospective builder. According to him it's quite common, because most builders just use traditional roof truss sizing, which doesn't allow enough space to fit modern insulation batts properly over the walls - so they either compress the insulation to fit it in (which destroys much of its effectiveness), or just finish the insulation short, leaving a gap (which, as pointed out, makes a mockery of the modelled energy rating). Simply specifying the roof trusses to have a 150mm chord overhang is simple and easy to do, gives enough space for an R6 or R7 batt to cover the wall, and doesn't make the truss any more complex - so there's really no excuse for builders not to do it. Good luck with the VBA! Agreed, and my insulation installers simply took the easiest way out, not taking the time to cut wall batts properly or install the ceiling batts properly. Such huge gaps along the ceiling edges all over the house is just ridiculous. 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