Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 4Nov 20, 2017 6:41 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 7Nov 21, 2017 10:18 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 11Nov 23, 2017 9:47 am 1. Engineers are licensed to deal with all aspects of structural design.. ( Engineers Australia, National Engineer Register) Building Surveyors are licensed to deal with the NCC and compliance only Building Inspectors/Consultants are not licensed at all ( eg in WA) 2. Builders can't deny a professional engineer access to your building site. Steps a. Hire a local engineer, minimise travel time costs b. Send him the plans beforehand c. Ask them to inspect the structural elements with time to spare, in order to avoid costly on site delays , pumps, crane hire, concrete pour. etc d. Your engineer will send the builder a letter/email the work will either be Compliant (Fit for purpose) , Non Compliant (Not fit for purpose and will recommend fixes/remedies). e.If the builder chooses to ignore your engineer, there are a number of actions you can take, Building Commission, Fair trading, Civil Courts,etc. Basically it is a waiting Game ..but your are well covered 3. Should things go wrong in the future, ask for extended structural warranty periods or worse case structural elements have to be replaced/rectified .There are choices for slabs and upgrades you just need to know the cost differentials represent value for money and that the work was done properly. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 12Nov 23, 2017 2:17 pm Perhaps I should point out that BIMboy is living under a rock in WA and "surprise surprise " has no idea how things are done in Victoria. Firstly you cannot appoint an engineer for building permit approval, the legislation requires Building Surveyor. It is the building surveyor that will detemine whether builder's plans are compliant and issue building permit. This then follows with mandatory inspections during construction. The legislated inspections are before footings are poured, frame inspection and a final for the occupancy permit. BS will usually not do the inspections but will hire a registered building inspector. Secondly you can appoint your private inspector for independent stage inspection and who you get is your choice. It could be an engineer or experienced building consultant or anyone else you choose. You cannot appoint your own building inspector and not tell the builder because whilst the job is in progress builder has the exclusive licence over your land and control of the site. It is the builder who is responsible for site security and safety and has the right to know who will visit and when. The legislation was passed to stop builder's appointing BS to avoid conflict of interest(BS undully influenced byt the builder) but unfortunately it appears that large builders have found a way around it. Under standard domestic building contract independent inspectors and or engineers are not recognised as parties to the contract and can be ignored by the builder. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 13Nov 23, 2017 2:55 pm StructuralBIMGuy 1. Engineers are licensed to deal with all aspects of structural design.. ( Engineers Australia, National Engineer Register) Building Surveyors are licensed to deal with the NCC and compliance only Building Inspectors/Consultants are not licensed at all ( eg in WA) 2. Builders can't deny a professional engineer access to your building site. Steps a. Hire a local engineer, minimise travel time costs b. Send him the plans beforehand c. Ask them to inspect the structural elements with time to spare, in order to avoid costly on site delays , pumps, crane hire, concrete pour. etc d. Your engineer will send the builder a letter/email the work will either be Compliant (Fit for purpose) , Non Compliant (Not fit for purpose and will recommend fixes/remedies). e.If the builder chooses to ignore your engineer, there are a number of actions you can take, Building Commission, Fair trading, Civil Courts,etc. Basically it is a waiting Game ..but your are well covered 3. Should things go wrong in the future, ask for extended structural warranty periods or worse case structural elements have to be replaced/rectified .There are choices for slabs and upgrades you just need to know the cost differentials represent value for money and that the work was done properly. hth Thank you Mate for your suggestions and time, Appreciate it. Simonds gives only 7 year structural guarantee which is little bit worrying, I will ask if they can extend it. Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 14Nov 23, 2017 3:04 pm building-expert Perhaps I should point out that BIMboy is living under a rock in WA and "surprise surprise " has no idea how things are done in Victoria. Firstly you cannot appoint an engineer for building permit approval, the legislation requires Building Surveyor. It is the building surveyor that will detemine whether builder's plans are compliant and issue building permit. This then follows with mandatory inspections during construction. The legislated inspections are before footings are poured, frame inspection and a final for the occupancy permit. BS will usually not do the inspections but will hire a registered building inspector. Secondly you can appoint your private inspector for independent stage inspection and who you get is your choice. It could be an engineer or experienced building consultant or anyone else you choose. You cannot appoint your own building inspector and not tell the builder because whilst the job is in progress builder has the exclusive licence over your land and control of the site. It is the builder who is responsible for site security and safety and has the right to know who will visit and when. The legislation was passed to stop builder's appointing BS to avoid conflict of interest(BS undully influenced byt the builder) but unfortunately it appears that large builders have found a way around it. Under standard domestic building contract independent inspectors and or engineers are not recognised as parties to the contract and can be ignored by the builder. Thank you @building-expert for replying, its really good to see experts replying to the thread to help people. When you say large builders have found a way around about having our own BS, does that mean its not worth having our own surveyor ? (Builders will still ignore ?) . I have had a chat with one of the Surveyors firm and they told they cannot comply to the timelines suggested by the Simonds, they told they will take as much as time need to review properly before giving the approvals and stuffs. Is there any way we can include our own Inspectors/Engineers as parties before contract sign to act on our behalf? Will the big builders allow for that? I now understand i can appoint either Engineer or Consultant to do the inspections, but i am not sure whether is there any advantage in having consultant over engineer and vice versa. Cheers. Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 15Nov 23, 2017 8:04 pm I am not talking about building permit approvals mate Building surveyors supposedly deal with that, but that may not be what gets built. (In fact anyone can check the codes for deem to comply or compliance BTW the NCC are free) It's what gets built on site that doesn't necessarily meets the required NCC codes, so when you question the builder, What does the builder do....LOL refers it to his Engineer as an alternate method/Solution who pulls rank over the Building Experts/Consultants. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 16Nov 23, 2017 8:30 pm vedhabala Thank you Mate for your suggestions and time, Appreciate it. Simonds gives only 7 year structural guarantee which is little bit worrying, I will ask if they can extend it. 6 to 7 years structural warranties that is what they all offer and that is why it is imperative to have an engineer check your biggest ever investment. It can only be extended if the engineer provides time based calculation and proofs that warrant an extension Here's an example, A Builders did not follow the correct detailed drawings with reference to slip form (2x PGI) placement for a suspended slab over brickwork.The long term effect will be brick cracking and it can be proven by calculations/simulations. The builder has offered a 25 year guarantee. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 17Nov 24, 2017 6:39 am In Victoria, builder's warranty is 10 years so if the house has been up for 10 years how likely is ist it will fail after that? So the 25 -50 year structural warranty is probably an empty promise because if the house does fail it will more than likely be due to maintenance neglect, unauthorized alterations, termites (read maintenance neglect), geological fault or occupant abuse. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 18Nov 24, 2017 8:51 am building-expert In Victoria, builder's warranty is 10 years so if the house has been up for 10 years how likely is ist it will fail after that? So the 25 -50 year structural warranty is probably an empty promise because if the house does fail it will more than likely be due to maintenance neglect, unauthorized alterations, termites (read maintenance neglect), geological fault or occupant abuse. This just goes to show you know very little about Structural Design ie. Codes AS3600 Concrete & AS3700 Masonry ie concrete shrinkage, creep and crack control on unreinforced supporting masonry walls and long term effects.The builder has admitted fault and at a guess he has built a lot more homes using the same incorrect details. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So how many battlers and punters are going to be told " Badluck, your brick cracking beneath your suspended slab is standard... and it's not covered after 6 years ?" OT I can't stipulate enough how important it is to have your house properly structurally inspected by your own structural engineer, he will take photos, data, measurements, offer ups proofs and solutions. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 19Nov 24, 2017 9:28 am building-expert The legislation was passed to stop builder's appointing BS to avoid conflict of interest(BS unduly influenced by the builder) but unfortunately it appears that large builders have found a way around it. Yeah, this is the issue I'm running into and the OP. It has to be a known issue at the VBA level, what would it take to get this type of activity looked into? I know in my dealings that CSC is very mindful of the terminology that he using regarding the appointment of the Building Surveyor and will always call over replying in email so there is no record. Re: Independent Building Surveyor or Builder's Surveyor 20Nov 24, 2017 10:07 am Unified national regulations will eventually put qualified Trusted Engineers in control of critical structural inspections as it should be in the meantime be prepared always ask questions, take photos, insist on data and proofs on non compliance structural matters.. goodluck especially you Victorians ... Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs It is true that a builder can ignore your independent inspection report as it is not part of the contractual arrangement but that is stupid because he cannot avoid fixing… 9 46854 That is a really good attitude Akin to you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I do enjoy watching that tik tok inspector from Victoria but he does go a little… 12 81883 |