Unhappy... should we start again and find another builder or

We bought our block of land over three years ago now. At that time, we weren't prepared to build but had already started looking at displays. We fell in love with a project builder who would allow us to modify the design to suit our requirements. They even helped us choose/change our land to another one that would suit one of their homes! We were real appreciative of their guidance and we were not even a customer yet!

About 8 months ago we realized the cost of building one of their houses was increasing in cost faster than our budget would allow and or how much the land had appreciated, so we decided to bite the bullet and make some sacrifices and start the process.

The SC we were dealing with back then moved into a more regional role so we engaged another SC from the same builder. He was great and we had the same design style. Although we made a few floor plan amendments in the end he was always helpful and really great to deal with.

This all changed once our file was handed to the office for us to make color selections/electrical appointment (1 day) and tender appointment (2 weeks post colour; 1 day). This is our first home build although the place we are in now was purchased off the plan and we had little input. At colour, they don't quote you on anything. You basically go in there, choose what you want with a blind eye to costs. I found it hard to do the process this way because I base my decisions on costs mostly. Different categories didn't cut it. Not all options were presented to us. There was very little structure to the meeting, it was almost just so they can fill in their paperwork. Others may think them not telling us options is a good thing so it doesn't seem as though they're pushy, but again, I like to be informed and part of that is addressing options I never knew about, then I can say yes or no or consider doing more research. We also spent a lot of time making on the spot decisions. Some were easy to make, but other were hard because we did enough research going into our appointment only to be told we couldn't do it on the day... BUT later on find out from their supplier websites we could UGH! Anyway, I don't believe as a customer I should know more about their products than they would. Considering his is their job, I would expect they should just know. 1 day to select all colours and electricians is not enough. We did it in the end, but the day felt real rushed.

The next appointment was tender. This is where they tell you how much damage you've made to your budget since you didn't know how much things cost in the previous colour appointment. Anyway, let's start off with this being a full day appointment only to wait at least 15 mins at the start because tender presenter was running late. No excuse, just an apology. Ok fine... we did three rounds of estimations and changes. At lunch the tender presenter allowed 1 hour break. We arrived back in time, waited. Whole 20mins before someone came into the office to let us know she was running late. She eventually arrived a total of 35mins late. No excuse, just an apology... again! The meeting didn't seem structured. We were swayed into making some decisions without estimations because we were guided by the tender presenter. In hindsight, I should've leant my lesson from colour appointment and that these ppl don't know what they're talking about sometimes. Again, I would request one thing (I did my research this time), be told I can't do it, then have to take out my supplier brochures as evidence to say it could be done. Is it just being lazy or really again not knowing their product. We were held back an addition 1:45mins from when we agreed to finish up, signed a tender agreement and paid a further deposit. We were also told if we didn't sign tender that day, we would have to wait 4 months for their next availability. Funny though, since we signed tender that day, they were able to fit us in for a contract appointment exactly 4 weeks post =/

So this is where we are at... post tender, I had questions and a lot of them. Since these meetings were unstructured, they didn't know their products, they were lazy, didn't want to quote and didn't present all our options, it's a given! I reached out to others in this forum building with the same builder and asked for their experiences. Most, if not all, said it was as simple as requesting a second tender appointment and although the tender agreement said you would be charged a fee for variations, none of them were charged. I sent an email w my questions the night of tender. And another one after that because they said they would email me further documents, but didn't. I waited a whole week for a response and had to send another email for follow up or even to check they had received my email. Is that too much to expect? Just tell me you've received my email and if it's going to take awhile to respond. Not that hard I would think. So since I made a complaint around non-response I feel as though I've been discriminated against. They won't allow me to sit in on a second tender meeting and charging me the $500 variation fee. I'm ok to pay the fee... I signed an agreement to say I would so that's not my issue. There's minimal acknowledgement of the issues I've raised. They now say structural changes are no longer allowed but others have done it, and they didn't give us the opportunity to give the floor plan one more once over before we signed it off. Now I just feel every email response is a battle and I'm disheartened. All the experience I had w the SCs previously feel like they've gone out the window. If this is how they are now, how will they be during build or after? We are stressed and we don't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on something we were made to just deal with because we signed on the dotted line. Gosh, this is just tender and we've outlaid a small amount of cash... which we are prepared to forego if we can just start this process again. Next time we'll know the rules of this game. I guess if we knew it from the start we wouldn't be in this position.

My question is, we have our contract appointment in a couple of weeks. I'm going to raise the small structural changes beforehand. Whether they say they can make the changes or not, should we just look for another builder and forgo our deposit? Is this happening for a reason... there's a better builder out there who are better with their processes and want to work with their customers, not against them? Or are they just all the same and I should just suck it up these next few weeks until contract when I can finally just move on? My husband just wants to move on, but the thought of having to start the whole process again makes me sick. We are in a lose/lose situation. We just need to choose which losing situation will be better for us... thoughts?

When things start going wrong from the beginning beit pre contract or post contract...let it be a warning sign
.. you got what you bargained for.

I think from your long detailed post you sound unhappy, so maybe you should think about another builder. I had issues early on with my builder, but stuck with them, the issues continued...

That being said, some of your issues seem minor in the scheme of things.. like waiting 15 mins... that personally wouldn't bother me, my builder made me wait lots of times.. your other issues would bother me, you are paying lots of money for your house and if you cant get the house you want might be worth trying somewhere else...

My only thought would be to remember it may not be any better with another builder, the things you've mentioned seem quite likely to be the same with all builders.

Good luck deciding.

Certain elements of this seem to be standard in my experience. Let me first say that I am very happy with my builder to date although I have had cause to make one complaint, they dealt with it quickly and effectively.
Having said that if I had not spent months on this forum researching and learning from others ahead of me I would most likely have been in a similar boat.
I think much of it stems from project builders preferring to make as few changes as possible. They make money from knocking out builds quickly and that works best when few changes are made. Custom builders are in the game to offer all options and give you choice. My advice would be to stick it out UNLESS you feel like any of the problems are deliberately deceitful and you don't trust them. In that case run away and don't look back.
Even asking this on a post specific to the builder you are dealing with might help as others may have had similar experiences. You may find your builders admin team are terrible but everyone is really happy with the outcome once building begins?
Good luck

[quote="Rocchet"]Certain elements of this seem to be standard in my experience. Let me first say that I am very happy with my builder to date although I have had cause to make one complaint, they dealt with it quickly and effectively.
Having said that if I had not spent months on this forum researching and learning from others ahead of me I would most likely have been in a similar boat.
I think much of it stems from project builders preferring to make as few changes as possible. They make money from knocking out builds quickly and that works best when few changes are made. Custom builders are in the game to offer all options and give you choice. My advice would be to stick it out UNLESS you feel like any of the problems are deliberately deceitful and you don't trust them. In that case run away and don't look back.
Even asking this on a post specific to the builder you are dealing with might help as others may have had similar experiences. You may find your builders admin team are terrible but everyone is really happy with the outcome once building begins?
Good luck


[/quote GJG by any chance ... sounds exactly like our experience !!!!

Sounds like that service is absolutely foreshadowing the quality of your build/experience ahead. A company that values its customers (and thinks long term) wouldn't be allowing such cr4p service unless it just wanted ur $$, and asap!

If you have not signed a contract and they won't bend an inch, then imagine after you have signed, I would learn lots and also pay lots of attention to builders trades and knowledge. First I would fill my head with weeks and months of knowledge, then when your in the know, I would look for a builder who hit the sweet spot of quality, knowledge, value for money, do the work and gain knowledge, and increase your chances of a successful build big time, I personally would not hire a rigid builder. Best of luck.

I went through the same dramas as you at the beginning. I originally put a deposit down with the big M, They lured me to put down a deposit as after the first visit to one of their display homes, the sales person emailed me saying that she would give me a very big discount if i come in and put down a deposit on that day.

There was no mention of non refundable deposit until the eftpos transaction of 1k was successful. I realised that this was going to be a bumpy ride and it was. She started harassing me to come and sign documents and put down more money.

It went on and on and had several minor arguments and in the end I told them where to go, lost my 1k and went to Henley.
Henley meets the sweet spot for quality inclusion and value. they also have a fairly good reputation and have won many awards in that respect. You still need to do your research and go over all your documents several times. just be on your toes and hire a building inspector for your build. I honestly think they are worth the money,

If you're in the south east, look up SJD homes. They too are very good! They are more accommodating than the rest and they have an excellent reputation. Remember the real builder is your site supervisor.

Thanks for all your replies... I really appreciate all the guidance!

We are still sitting on the fence with this one. We have until Feb to start build, so no rush in deciding right away. They already have our $3K and its not like we'll get it back whichever path we choose. But we would like to think we can keep our options open cuz based on the theme of your responses - 1) Its a common experience and 2) I like how JPSEmperor48 said 'your real builder is the site supervisor'. I do strongly consider the comments around all the warning signs - this is how they will be on build then maintenance etc. Bad and non relevant analogy, but its like having a baby at either a private or public hospital - you pay the big fees for private, but if you dont get a nice/good midwife, your experience is out the window! Anyway... not the forum to comment on those types of things lol Back on topic... Perhaps if we wait awhile, the storm will calm and we can hopefully repair the relationship... but really is that MY responsibility? And that's what just continues to make me angry... why should i be the one bending backwards to try and suck up to them so i can get what i want. Its my house! I'm paying for it! I pay their wages. (Funny, when we were at tender, the presenter mentioned they add builders margins cuz - and i quote, "someone needs to pay my wage", so perhaps someone should nice to the hand that feeds them?) But each time i try and take the upper hand, they seem to slap me back down with something stupid (and i'm hearing it's common) like... 'you signed it, so its your loss, not ours, no more changes, your fault, now get back in your box' and then I hear them with the 'na na nana na' tune in their head. I usually use the collaborative approach - asking to find a mutual resolution, but they dont seem to take that either. Now that i write this, its definitely the not the relationship i want to continue, but if its the norm, what choice do i really have if my file will move on from them during build.

Perhaps i'm envious of others on this form who talk about how good their experiences are and how knowledgeable the people they've been working with have been.

The difference it will make going with another builder is learning our lesson the hard/expensive way because we now know what to expect/what not to do/what to do. We are building in the western suburbs. We don't want to go full custom, but we're hoping to find a low volume project builder willing to modify a pre-design or quote us on what we currently need. We may end up nutting it down to comparisons and our gut feel since thats all we can rely on. In order to make direct comparison, we'd have to go down to tender route, so at least by then it's definitely comparing apples with apples - not just inclusions and price, but experience and service. If its all same same, we might as well just go back to the original builder Boo!

Honestly there is also many good builders out there who are more than willing to really want to give you a good experience with fair and reasonable pricing, trick is to know enough about building to get a good one, my most important thing about building was to find the best fairest most professional builder, second was inclusions etc, too many put the horse before the cart, personal make great building experiences, not inclusions.

I couldn't agree more with what Joker and other have said above. It sounds to me like you may want to find another builder if you haven't signed a contract yet.

Cr@p service (don't budge to any requests or contract negotiations) and no up front accurate estimation/quote are probably common practice in the building industry. Most of the builders are good at trapping customers. And, many customers/home owners are probably in disadvantage positions because of this. I really hate when builders or sales people say "this is the standard" or "this is how it's been done". If the common practice is cr@p, it's time to challenge it. If there's no change, time to look for another builder. There are good builders out there.

I understand 3k is a lot of money but consider you are in better position compare to those who found out that building is a nightmare after they signed contracts. There are many building horror stories in this forum. And, I don't think it's a good idea handing out a huge amount of money to someone that you're not comfortable to work with.

I too have lost 1.5k deposit, learned my lesson the hard way to a project builder. I'm currently engaging my third builder. So far it's been good. He can work with soil test report that I provided, showed me in details what are the standard inclusions vs upgrade items when visiting a display home and even gave me the colour selection form with detailed pricing before contract stage. So, no rush in the colour selection process for me and my wife.

In summary, as long as we haven't signed anything, we still have power and options.

You are unhappy before the journey starts, it rarely gets better and you are most likely in for a donkey ride. Your money is good so why settle for a second class customer service. Find another builder make sure you know excactly what you want (no more variations) and apply what you learned so far. Be pro active and run this as a business, isn't your investment too important to leave it to chance? If it feels good then go , if not walk.