Browse Forums Building A New House Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you need? 101Jun 24, 2017 8:45 am JoBro, you're using the term proper in a way that suggests every other setup is not proper, so therefore wrong. While I can see the point of some of what your are proposing, your setup has been developed from the perspective of an IT professional and is extremely diverse and complex. That might be proper for you but may not be proper for everyone else, and frankly I'm not sure it would pass the wife test - certainly not my wife. With respect to Sonos, I bought my first Sonos product 11 years ago to sit alongside "proper" amps such as Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha, and over time it has replaced all of those because it is just so flexible, clean and simple. With respect to the recent change to the way Spotify interacts with Sonos, I'm not entirely sure its best to put a single streaming service at the centre of control, but it certainly does give a benefit to those that might like to use their services that way. Anyway, mine is just another way of thinking about these things and I do hope your build goes as well as you expect. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 102Jun 24, 2017 8:49 am sinbox JoBro GLO What is everyone doing for Intercom? Check out the Nucleus Life, or the Amazon Echo Show. Would you be able to use 1 echo show along with multiple dots as an intercom system? Not sure, but I do know you can call people via the echo dot vs video call on the echo show... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZ6KyiAXdQ If you were going to go down that route, then I'd look at getting the Ecobee 4 with alexa built in and the new Ecobee Light Switch for your other rooms which also have alexa built in. https://www.ecobee.com/voice/ Also I'm keeping my eye on a product by Brilliant Tech, although it only supports 120v at the moment, although they have suggested that they might be bringing a 240v model soon. https://www.brilliant.tech Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 103Jun 24, 2017 9:01 am arcadelt @JoBro, you're using the term proper in a way that suggests every other setup is not proper, so therefore wrong. While I can see the point of some of what your are proposing, your setup has been developed from the perspective of an IT professional and is extremely diverse and complex. That might be proper for you but may not be proper for everyone else, and frankly I'm not sure it would pass the wife test - certainly not my wife. With respect to Sonos, I bought my first Sonos product 11 years ago to sit alongside "proper" amps such as Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha, and over time it has replaced all of those because it is just so flexible, clean and simple. With respect to the recent change to the way Spotify interacts with Sonos, I'm not entirely sure its best to put a single streaming service at the centre of control, but it certainly does give a benefit to those that might like to use their services that way. Anyway, mine is just another way of thinking about these things and I do hope your build goes as well as you expect. Once you get a Logitech Harmony Remote, and configure it with all your requirements, then my technology illiterate wife and mother in law have no issues pressing the appropriate button to turn on the TV and change channels, letting the Logitech Harmony do all the hard work with changing inputs and turning multiple devices on. Add a Amazon Echo into the mix and all they have to say is "Alexa, turn on the tv", "Alexa, turn on channel 9", etc. As I said the sonos is nice, but it's a closed system, and as you said you had to have pre-amps etc hanging off the back of your surround sound multi channel amps to integrate the sonos with your av setup. If your only after multiroom audio, and simple sound bars then Sonos is the product of choice, but if you want 5.1/7.1 etc then your going to need a proper AV Receiver, and one which supports multiroom audio such as Yamaha MusicCast or Denon Heos, as they can offer you the full range of AV Receivers as well as soundbars, soundbases, pre-amps and wireless speakers which all integrate into their solution, and support native DLNA, all the streaming services, and direct media sharing for Mac OS, and Windows, without requiring you to use their specific app, or having to use multiple apps to achieve a single outcome. Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you need? 104Jun 24, 2017 10:22 am Have had three Harmony remotes and they were barely adequate. Yes, they can be setup to control multiple devices, but when one didn't respond it messed up the sequence and I always got the yell from the lounge room. This happened more often than I liked. Now, this is the only remote we have in our AV setup and the wife is happy. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Will Alexa control my Apple TV? If not, then I'll probably wait for Apple's HomePod, which will be available in Australia from day one, unlike Amazon Echo or Google Home. My Sonos system provides 5.1, and Sonos is DLNA compliant. If I want I can stream to any zone through Windows at the OS level and I can AirPlay too from my Mac, iPhone and iPad - but I don't need too, because I only want one solution, not ten - it's simple and works...EVERY TIME! I do not know why you think Sonos is closed. It is one of the first and most open systems around, as that is how it was built. When I got into Sonos, none of the big media companies were supporting streaming from any service, with perhaps the exception of Internet radio. Yamaha MusicCast was around (just) and Heos wasn't even thought of. I guess, since I got in very early, I am now invested. That said, friends in recent time have done their own assessment, and in each case have opted for the flexibility and simplicity of Sonos and ditched their complex and clunky AV and multi-room systems as a result. Don't get me wrong, I can see that some people might want to have higher-end hardware, but these are the ones who can hear the difference: they can probably also see 16.7 million colours, taste if a Grange is from 1990 or 1991 and feel a pea through twenty mattresses, but I am not one of them. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 105Jun 24, 2017 10:40 am Why are you guys letting your wife use the remote control? And mother-in-law!!! What has the world come to 😂 Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 106Jun 24, 2017 10:48 am arcadelt Have had three Harmony remotes and they were barely adequate. Yes, they can be setup to control multiple devices, but when one didn't respond it messed up the sequence and I alway got the yell from the lounge room. This happened more often than I liked. Now, this is the only remote we have in our AV setup and the wife is happy. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Will Alexa control my Apple TV? If not, then I'll probably wait for Apple's HomePod, which will be available in Australia from day one, unlike Amazon Echo or Google Home. My Sonos system provides 5.1, and Sonos is DLNA compliant. If I want I can stream to any zone through Windows at the OS level and I can AirPlay too from my Mac, iPhone and iPad - but I don't need too, because I only want one solution, not ten - it's simple and works...EVERY TIME! I do not know why you think Sonos is closed. It is one of the first and most open systems around, as that is how it was built. When I got into Sonos, none of the big media companies were supporting streaming from any service, with perhaps the exception of Internet radio. Yamaha MusicCast was around (just) and Heos wasn't even thought of. I guess, since I got in very early, I am now invested. That said, friends in recent time have done their own assessment, and in each case have opted for the flexibility and simplicity of Sonos and ditched their complex and clunky AV and multi-room systems as a result. Don't get me wrong, I can see that some people might want to have higher-end hardware, but these are the ones who can hear the difference: they can probably also see 16.7 million colours, taste if a Grange is from 1990 or 1991 and feel a pea through twenty mattresses, but I am not one of them. I agree that If the Logitech Harmony gets out of sync, then it causes all sorts of problems, ut this was due to people not holding the remote at all of the devices until they hard turned on properly. This issue was addressed when they released the Harmony Hub which is part of the Logitech Harmony Elite product, where the remote communicates via RF to the Hub, which in turn sends the command via the wired IR cables between your high end devices or via the IR emitters placed in appropriate locations to control your devices. As I said the Sonos is a good system, I just think there are now better solutions regardless of if it was the first, just like how Apple made the iPhone which changed the industry, and now Apple is playing catch up with everyone else, the same way it took Sonos a long time to integrate native Spotify, and followed by Amazon Alexa support. It was only early this year when Sonos decided to release a soundbase, when everyone else already had them. So as far as I'm concerned, Sonos may of created the market for this kind of stuff, but they are now playing catch up with everyone else, there solutions are also more for simple setup, vs complex more advanced setups, where a full blown surround sound AV receiver is required. If your an Apple person then sure stick with Sonos and Apple, but for everyone else wanting to use Amazon Alexa and Google Home with all the IoT Smart Home devices out there and coming soon, then look at other solutions. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 107Jun 24, 2017 11:14 am Sorry I think this argument has gone in the wrong direction... When I recommend other products, I'm recommending them because they are Audio / Visual (AV) products, vs Sonos being Audio only. So having an AV Receiver with MusicCast means i can stream audio from my video source to other rooms and speakers, without having to have a Sonos or an additional device attached to my receiver to allow for multiroom audio. So if Sonos works for you then great, but for my needs I need something more powerful with AV switching, vs just audio, hence why I am pro Yamaha / Denon. Yamaha MusicCast - AN EXTENDED REVIEW http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews ... iew-410542 While Yamaha was far from first into the multiroom streaming market, long dominated by Sonos, it arrived with a cleverly diverse range of multiroom-enabled products, which has continued to expand. Where rivals have each created little ecosystems of products that can share their music around the house, Yamaha has delivered a platform that will operate throughout its extensive range of audio and AV — in small wireless speakers, soundbars, AV receivers, stereo receivers, micro systems, standalone speaker units, active stereo speakers… even recently in one of Yamaha Music's Clavinova baby grand pianos. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 108Jun 24, 2017 11:26 am JoBro This issue was addressed when they released the Harmony Hub. You've just reminded me that I have one of those sitting in a cupboard unused - must get that on eBay soon. JoBro It was only early this year when Sonos decided to release a soundbase, when everyone else already had them. A product that I admit I cannot see the necessity for. JoBro If your an Apple person then sure stick with Sonos and Apple, but for everyone else wanting to use Amazon Alexa and Google Home with all the IoT Smart Home devices out there and coming soon, then look at other solutions. Wasn't always an Apple person. Used Windows and other OSes for over twenty years, and worked hard to create a unified ecosystem around those and aligned products. However, since buying my first Mac in 2012, I have not looked back as things just work together seamlessly. I admit that HomeKit is not as all-encompassing as it should be, but then neither is Amazon's, Google's or Samsung's solution either. In our build I am using iPads and iPhones as the controllers as at least all apps are made for those, even though the apps are not yet connect to each other. Hopefully that will come in the future. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 109Jun 24, 2017 11:33 am arcadelt Wasn't always an Apple person. Used Windows and other OSes for over twenty years, and worked hard to create a unified ecosystem around those and aligned products. However, since buying my first Mac in 2012, I have not looked back as things just work together seamlessly. I admit that HomeKit is not as all-encompassing as it should be, but then neither is Amazon's, Google's or Samsung's solution either. In our build I am using iPads and iPhones as the controllers as at least all apps are made for those, even though the apps are not yet connect to each other. Hopefully that will come in the future. Fair enough, as this thread is about what have you done / what do you need, its not about what you should do, but only a guide into everyones own adventures into this area of technology. My house is full of iPads, iPhones, MacBooks, as this is what my family uses, I'm the only one who uses Windows and Android based devices, but regardless of the platform everything works seemlessly together, just like your Apple and Sonos system does. So for the people who are looking into this kind of stuff, they can make up their own opinions based on everyones comments and come up with their own solution that works for them. Anyways I'll leave it there, so as to not hijack this thread. Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you need? 110Jun 24, 2017 11:43 am arcadelt, as JoBro and others have discussed in this thread before, Sonos still has a place in many homes. This is not a Sonos V/s AVR argument thread, but more about what options exist out there for Smart Homes. Everyone is free to choose what works for them. Personally I think Sonos will have to show more innovation than what they have at the moment, else they will go the Blackberry way as Apple tends to do to the existing market with their Homepod announcement. Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you need? 111Jun 24, 2017 2:48 pm sinbox @arcadelt, as JoBro and others have discussed in this thread before, Sonos still has a place in many homes. This is not a Sonos V/s AVR argument thread, but more about what options exist out there for Smart Homes. Everyone is free to choose what works for them. True. I've been in both places and have made my choice. This particular discussion started because of the use of the word "proper". I think the conclusion has been drawn that "proper" is in the eye of the beholder. sinbox Personally I think Sonos will have to show more innovation than what they have at the moment, else they will go the Blackberry way as Apple tends to do to the existing market with their Homepod announcement. Also true. Sonos users, including me, are rightly concerned about what Apple's entry into this arena will mean. At the moment Apple has no size options nor a surround or sub solution, but they could develop those in time. That said, the biggest issue for Sonos is actually AirPlay 2, rather than the hardware. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 113Jun 24, 2017 3:18 pm arcadelt Also true. Sonos users, including me, are rightly concerned about what Apple's entry into this arena will mean. At the moment Apple has no size options nor a surround or sub solution, but they could develop those in time. That said, the biggest issue for Sonos is actually AirPlay 2, rather the hardware. Yeah..,that's another consideration for Airplay compatibility. Airplay2 is a new standard with support for multi-room audio which was recently announced isn't it? Don't know if there is anyone supporting it yet. Hopefully it is just a firmware update on older devices Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 114Jun 24, 2017 5:16 pm JoBro I was asked to post here by "Sinbox" about my current home and future home plans, because I'm currently renting, I'm limited to what I can and can't do, so here is are my lists of smarthome devices. Current Products
On Order
So with all of my current products, they are all using wifi, where as my fure products will be using a mix of Wired, Wireless 2.4 Ghz / 5 Ghz and Z-Wave. Depending on your wireless router / access point, you may start running into problems when you have over 32 devices per wireless radio, and most 802.11 IoT devices only use the 2.4 Ghz range, so if your not planning on installing a proper wireless solution then you may wanna look at the Netgear Orbi solution, as it can support 250 devices per radio. http://www.netgear.com.au/home/products/networking/orbi/ For people looking at installing a proper wireless solution into their house, then I highly recommend a Ubiquiti Networks Unifi solution. https://unifi-hd.ubnt.com/ If you gone this route, then you can create multiple VLANs and Wireless SSID's, which will allow you to seperate all your IoT gear onto they're own wireless networks restricting traffic from your normal network preventing any future IoT hack which might own any of your smart home devices and gaining access to your network Future House Build
In regards to multi-room audio, I'd stay away from Sonos and look more at the Yamaha MusicCast or Denon Heos range of products, as they support a wider range of streaming sources and devices, vs the closed system like Sonos, don't get me wrong Sonos make a great product and is easy to use, I just prefer a more open solution and as such decided to go with the Yamaha range of devices. I already have a Yamaha RX-A3060 and a Yamaha SRT-1500 along with Samsung Smart TV's which allow me to run the Plex Client which connects to my NAS running the Plex Server, streaming all my media over my home network and to my mobile devices when I'm out and about, depending on your Internet connections uplink speed. I also have a HDHomeRun Connect, which allows me to record to live TV to my NAS and stream to all my mobile devices, there is also an addon for my Plex server which allows me to stream live TV remotely, obviously this is null and void now that there is the Freeview FV app for Android and IOS, but all depends on your requirements i guess. As for security camera's I'd stay away from Duhua, HikVision or Foscam or in that fact any other cheap chinese branded cameras. http://thehackernews.com/2017/06/online-ip-camera-hacking.html If you can afford more expensive cameras, then look at Axis, Vivotek or GeoVision, also when looking at cameras, make sure they support the h265 codec vs the older h264 codec, as well as the resolution and frame rate. Cheaper camera's may support 720p or 1080p, but you'll notice that the frame rate drops down to like 12fps. So my requirements for cameras where to be 1080p with atleast 30fps if not 60fps using the h265 codec. For NAS's I would only recommend two brands:
Both of these NAS vendors have surviellance software solutions for recording and storing your camera footage, as well as mobile clients for accessing the cameras remotly. For anyone looking at future proofing their core network infrastruce Ubiquiti is planning on release a new range of products supporting 10G, which will fit perfectly for anyone with FTTP NBN. Ubiquiti reveal new products, bring 10G and high density client support to their products https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/778152-ubiquiti-reveal-new-products-bring-10g-and-high-density-client-support-to-their-products/ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thanks for the writeup, clearly you've put a lot of thought into what you've done with your existing house and will be doing with your future house! A lot of it looks like overkill compared to what I think 95% of people would want in their home, but good on you if that's what's important to you! Happily it looks like at least some of what you've chosen is the same as what I'm going with, it's quite reassuring. It's great that there are now so many products out there, I just wish a lot more of them were supported in Australia but hopefully that will come down the track. Building a Kew 28 with Porter Davis Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 115Jun 24, 2017 9:33 pm arcadelt We have planned a dedicated media/network cupboard, which will contain all hubs and routers and our printer. Other connected items, which must all be able to be controlled by our IOS devices (so-called internet of things) include: * smart thermostats * smart smoke/CO2 detectors * remote controlled blinds * remote controlled folding-arm awnings * smart lock * smart lighting * video streamer * multi-room wireless audio * watering controller I wanted to get smart fans too, but there are really only two available: Big *** Fans, which are ridiculously expensive, and a Bluetooth module called fanSync, which has too many limitations IMHO. I would have liked something to remotely report water tank levels, but have found nothing suitable yet (any advice gratefully accepted). The one I forgot until I heard an interesting discussion on Saturday Extra yesterday, was energy monitoring. I am now researching to see if there is a smart switch board or module that can be installed before it is too late (again, any advice gratefully accepted). Just curious if you found a power meter solution? In the current ancient miners cottage house we live in, we got a Saturn South power monitoring thing installed in our meter box (by Our Green Home). I can check real time power at any time on their website dashboard, costs (if I've defined a tariff), graphs of power use by hour/day/month/year, etc. I've also tinkered with the unit itself (an ESBox) and can have it send the data to a server of my choosing - I'm presently working on sending the data to a server at home and from there (via node-red) on to the Our Green Home service. Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you need? 116Jun 25, 2017 8:18 am benhelps Just curious if you found a power meter solution? In the current ancient miners cottage house we live in, we got a Saturn South power monitoring thing installed in our meter box (by Our Green Home). I can check real time power at any time on their website dashboard, costs (if I've defined a tariff), graphs of power use by hour/day/month/year, etc. I've also tinkered with the unit itself (an ESBox) and can have it send the data to a server of my choosing - I'm presently working on sending the data to a server at home and from there (via node-red) on to the Our Green Home service. I have bought a monitoring kit from efergy (http://efergy.com/au/). It was reasonably inexpensive and it looks good from the marketing, but I have not installed it yet so do not not how well it performs. It seems to have main components similar to your Saturn South product, although the Saturn South units looks more like a professional item, whereas the efergy is clearly and add-on DIY product. I do wonder whether a Smart Meter solution as has been rolled out in VIC might be the best solution, but since NSW has not mandated these, I'm concerned that we might install something that was not compatible with what distributors might agree on if they are required to implement a statewide solution in the future. In truth, I've not looked into it further since I found the efergy system, but given the installation of a switchboard looks like a major undertaking and not one that is easily changeable I'll do that soon. I may even ring our power company to see if they have a preferred smart meter. Are you in Victoria and is the Saturn Smart part of the Government's program? Edit: I see that Our Green Home is a monitoring solution provider, so probably not Victoria. Does their service work well for you? Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 117Jun 25, 2017 8:50 am arcadelt benhelps Just curious if you found a power meter solution? In the current ancient miners cottage house we live in, we got a Saturn South power monitoring thing installed in our meter box (by Our Green Home). I can check real time power at any time on their website dashboard, costs (if I've defined a tariff), graphs of power use by hour/day/month/year, etc. I've also tinkered with the unit itself (an ESBox) and can have it send the data to a server of my choosing - I'm presently working on sending the data to a server at home and from there (via node-red) on to the Our Green Home service. I have bought a monitoring kit from efergy (http://efergy.com/au/). It was reasonably inexpensive and it looks good from the marketing, but I have not installed it yet so do not not how well it performs. It seems to have main components similar to your Saturn South product, although the Saturn South units looks more like a professional item, whereas the efergy is clearly and add-on DIY product. I do wonder whether a Smart Meter solution as has been rolled out in VIC might be the best solution, but since NSW has not mandated these, I'm concerned that we might install something that was not compatible with what distributors might agree on if they are required to implement a statewide solution in the future. In truth, I've not looked into it further since I found the efergy system, but given the installation of a switchboard looks like a major undertaking and not one that is easily changeable I'll do that soon. I may even ring our power company to see if they have a preferred smart meter. Are you in Victoria and is the Saturn Smart part of the Government's program? I'm in NSW, but yeah I got the meter free as part of some qualifying household thing being offered. I don't know much about the "smart meters" being offered by any power companies, beyond that I'd heard that they sound much more integrated with power supply/able to control/change power stuff. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 118Jun 25, 2017 8:54 am arcadelt benhelps Just curious if you found a power meter solution? In the current ancient miners cottage house we live in, we got a Saturn South power monitoring thing installed in our meter box (by Our Green Home). I can check real time power at any time on their website dashboard, costs (if I've defined a tariff), graphs of power use by hour/day/month/year, etc. I've also tinkered with the unit itself (an ESBox) and can have it send the data to a server of my choosing - I'm presently working on sending the data to a server at home and from there (via node-red) on to the Our Green Home service. I have bought a monitoring kit from efergy (http://efergy.com/au/). It was reasonably inexpensive and it looks good from the marketing, but I have not installed it yet so do not not how well it performs. It seems to have main components similar to your Saturn South product, although the Saturn South units looks more like a professional item, whereas the efergy is clearly and add-on DIY product. I do wonder whether a Smart Meter solution as has been rolled out in VIC might be the best solution, but since NSW has not mandated these, I'm concerned that we might install something that was not compatible with what distributors might agree on if they are required to implement a statewide solution in the future. In truth, I've not looked into it further since I found the efergy system, but given the installation of a switchboard looks like a major undertaking and not one that is easily changeable I'll do that soon. I may even ring our power company to see if they have a preferred smart meter. Are you in Victoria and is the Saturn Smart part of the Government's program? Edit: I see that Our Green Home is a monitoring solution provider, so probably not Victoria. Does their service work well for you? I think if I were hunting an option for a new build, I'd be looking for things that monitor power from where it comes into the house, although I'd also want it to accurately monitor any offsets due to solar+battery on the house. Of course personally I'd also want it open and easily accessible so I could hook it into my own home automation (likely openHAB based) setup. The Saturn South is *possible* to hook into, but far from easy. Re: Your Connected Home. What have you done / what do you ne 119Jun 25, 2017 9:01 am arcadelt benhelps Just curious if you found a power meter solution? In the current ancient miners cottage house we live in, we got a Saturn South power monitoring thing installed in our meter box (by Our Green Home). I can check real time power at any time on their website dashboard, costs (if I've defined a tariff), graphs of power use by hour/day/month/year, etc. I've also tinkered with the unit itself (an ESBox) and can have it send the data to a server of my choosing - I'm presently working on sending the data to a server at home and from there (via node-red) on to the Our Green Home service. I have bought a monitoring kit from efergy (http://efergy.com/au/). It was reasonably inexpensive and it looks good from the marketing, but I have not installed it yet so do not not how well it performs. It seems to have main components similar to your Saturn South product, although the Saturn South units looks more like a professional item, whereas the efergy is clearly and add-on DIY product. I do wonder whether a Smart Meter solution as has been rolled out in VIC might be the best solution, but since NSW has not mandated these, I'm concerned that we might install something that was not compatible with what distributors might agree on if they are required to implement a statewide solution in the future. In truth, I've not looked into it further since I found the efergy system, but given the installation of a switchboard looks like a major undertaking and not one that is easily changeable I'll do that soon. I may even ring our power company to see if they have a preferred smart meter. Are you in Victoria and is the Saturn Smart part of the Government's program? Edit: I see that Our Green Home is a monitoring solution provider, so probably not Victoria. Does their service work well for you? As far as it goes Our Green Home (OGH) works well - it's rarely been down and provides a simple, pretty interface for querying power usage history and real time. I'd love it to provide open access to the data (via and API or even IFTTT) however they kind of feel like the whole offering was someone's brainchild a few years ago that has since been put into maintenance only on the shelf. The service works, but the forums are a ghost town, and support practically non-existent. However given the hardware is accessible to the technically inclined I'm hoping to design my own collection of their data (I'd like to have my home automation system trigger things based on power draw levels, infer when dumb devices are on/off based on power changes, etc) Thanks mate. Yeah good points! Leaning towards Option 3 to get a bit extra space in the cabinets but not going too crazy high (and expensive). Would require a mini… 13 39279 Hi All, I just wanted to close this topic out with an update. So we ended up agreeing to a number with the insurance company, and after an extensive amount of hand… 8 23348 You have mandatory building inspections and privately engaged building inspections. The difference between the two comes down to inspecting the building so it's safe and… 3 18019 |