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Ours is still in the box at the bottom of the pantry....

Hi All

metricon are quoting us $9990 for a 3000L rainwater tank for BASIX. i was going to install one anyway, but cant get over how overpriced that is
My friend did owner builder and he only spent $1500 for TWO water tanks for 4000L total plus plumbing separate


No way does plumbing cost $8500. Does anyone know if metricon lets you install one yourself or source it yourself. I just need them to do plumbing
FortuneCat
metricon are quoting us $9990 for a 3000L rainwater tank for BASIX.

If that quote is for a standard rainwater harvesting system, then it is extraordinarily high!

Also disgusting!

Even with the builder's usual 20% mark up on top, $9,990 is x3 what a competent designer/installer could produce to best practice, unlike the usual poorly designed and optioned sub standard systems seen all too frequently on Homeone.
SaveH2O
FortuneCat
metricon are quoting us $9990 for a 3000L rainwater tank for BASIX.

If that quote is for a standard rainwater harvesting system, then it is extraordinarily high!

Also disgusting!

Even with the builder's usual 20% mark up on top, $9,990 is x3 what a competent designer/installer could produce to best practice, unlike the usual poorly designed and optioned sub standard systems seen all too frequently on Homeone.

the challenge is that this needs to be plumbed at the start so how does one even go about hiring someone else to do it after the handover
A standard plumbing fit out will tap the rainwater supply line into the house mains water line at appropriate points, this also entails having check valves for backflow prevention. When retro fitting, a plumber can leave exposed a mains water pipe so that it can be later cut and the inflow section connected to a (invariably automatic) mains water switching device. The other cut section of pipe that connects back to the house supply will also connect to the mains water switching device.

Most home owners are given RainBanks (Google it for reviews) but you could fit a hydraulically operated automatic mains water switching device that are available at many hundreds of dollars less than RainBanks.

There is a photo in post 15432 in the thread below (subject starts on post 15423) that shows a mains water pipe looped on the outside of a wall. Unfortunately, the plumber who did the plumbing in the linked thread 'forgot' to install the pump and mains water switching device, resulting in the owner using 100% mains water for 3 years.


viewtopic.php?p=1861218#p1861218

Something that is rarely done but which I recommend is to fit a separate pex pipe that doesn't tap into the house mains water pipe, instead it will supply a separate rainwater tap in the laundry and separate (second) cistern valves in the WCs. This allows you to have a much cheaper and bullet proof manual mains water switching system for the cisterns by having the cistern isolation valves control the supply source. See the VBA Technical Solution Sheet below that draws from AS/NZS 3500.3 which is the national plumbing standard.

https://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/asset ... sterns.pdf

The number of downpipes (roof area) diverted to a tank depends on BASIX but standard rainwater systems divert the downpipe and water, not just water and unless you run additional downpipes along a wall, the downpipe nearest the tank will be the only downpipe not diverted underground (aka charged or wet system). If you need a wet system, the downpipe(s) will need to be diverted underground to the tank's intended location and diverted into the stormwater system at that point so the stormwater drainage is functional. When the tank is later installed, the diverted pipes will be re-plumbed to the tank's top meshed inlet and the tank's overflow connected to the stormwater.

Just be aware that wet systems divert to a tank via a vertical riser and usually dump a concentrated flow of water either near a submersible pump or the outlet that supplies the pump. Sediment resuspension caused by falling water is a prime cause of dirty water being drawn to the pump. Also, once you landscape over a wet system, built up crud inside the pipe can be very difficult to remove.

There are many ways to substantially reduce costs, increase yield and harvest better quality water, for example, having 3 narrow base 1,000 L tanks (they don't have to be clustered) will be cheaper than having a single 3,000 L metal slimline tank plus it allows you to also have a superior settling tank system that will supply the pump with much cleaner water.

Most people are also supplied with oversized expensive pumps, if you are supplying low flow short duration end fixtures like cisterns and a washing machine, you don't need a powerful pump.

When you hire a plumber after handover, do your homework beforehand so you are able to instruct him as to what and how you want the retrofitting done as very few plumbers know all regulations and best practice.
SaveH2O
A standard plumbing fit out will tap the rainwater supply line into the house mains water line at appropriate points, this also entails having check valves for backflow prevention. When retro fitting, a plumber can leave exposed a mains water pipe so that it can be later cut and the inflow section connected to a (invariably automatic) mains water switching device. The other cut section of pipe that connects back to the house supply will also connect to the mains water switching device.

Most home owners are given RainBanks (Google it for reviews) but you could fit a hydraulically operated automatic mains water switching device that are available at many hundreds of dollars less than RainBanks.

There is a photo in post 15432 in the thread below (subject starts on post 15423) that shows a mains water pipe looped on the outside of a wall. Unfortunately, the plumber who did the plumbing in the linked thread 'forgot' to install the pump and mains water switching device, resulting in the owner using 100% mains water for 3 years.


viewtopic.php?p=1861218#p1861218

Something that is rarely done but which I recommend is to fit a separate pex pipe that doesn't tap into the house mains water pipe, instead it will supply a separate rainwater tap in the laundry and separate (second) cistern valves in the WCs. This allows you to have a much cheaper and bullet proof manual mains water switching system for the cisterns by having the cistern isolation valves control the supply source. See the VBA Technical Solution Sheet below that draws from AS/NZS 3500.3 which is the national plumbing standard.

https://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/asset ... sterns.pdf

The number of downpipes (roof area) diverted to a tank depends on BASIX but standard rainwater systems divert the downpipe and water, not just water and unless you run additional downpipes along a wall, the downpipe nearest the tank will be the only downpipe not diverted underground (aka charged or wet system). If you need a wet system, the downpipe(s) will need to be diverted underground to the tank's intended location and diverted into the stormwater system at that point so the stormwater drainage is functional. When the tank is later installed, the diverted pipes will be re-plumbed to the tank's top meshed inlet and the tank's overflow connected to the stormwater.

Just be aware that wet systems divert to a tank via a vertical riser and usually dump a concentrated flow of water either near a submersible pump or the outlet that supplies the pump. Sediment resuspension caused by falling water is a prime cause of dirty water being drawn to the pump. Also, once you landscape over a wet system, built up crud inside the pipe can be very difficult to remove.

There are many ways to substantially reduce costs, increase yield and harvest better quality water, for example, having 3 narrow base 1,000 L tanks (they don't have to be clustered) will be cheaper than having a single 3,000 L metal slimline tank plus it allows you to also have a superior settling tank system that will supply the pump with much cleaner water.

Most people are also supplied with oversized expensive pumps, if you are supplying low flow short duration end fixtures like cisterns and a washing machine, you don't need a powerful pump.

When you hire a plumber after handover, do your homework beforehand so you are able to instruct him as to what and how you want the retrofitting done as very few plumbers know all regulations and best practice.

Thank you so much for all this information!

Theres alot of info here and technical terms i dont understand or can visualise, so will need time to digest

but overall i think what you are saying is that there is a way to plumb the rainwater into stormwater pipes and then plumbed back into a tank later. What ill need to find out is what kind of system metricon is using and whether they would even allow me to do this

can you explain what a charged or wet system is?

also are pumps generally included/required? i would prefer most hands off solution if possible. But whenever any sort of machinery is involved, that means more components that need to be maintained or can fail.

and when water goes into a tank, is a mesh all that is covering the top? im concerned about sitting water going stagnant for long periods and attracting mosquitos. What if i go on holiday for a month. What happens to all that water.
And generally do people clean it (even though its not drinking water). I also find it weird that washing machines are using this water. Do people wash their clothes with rainwater??

Thanks
FortuneCat
but overall i think what you are saying is that there is a way to plumb the rainwater into stormwater pipes and then plumbed back into a tank later.

What ill need to find out is what kind of system metricon is using and whether they would even allow me to do this

Correct. The house would have to be handed over with a working stormwater system but it would be best (and most likely) that the rainwater harvesting system would need to be finished prior to handover. You need to find out what would apply if you were able to arrange your own installation apart from the rough in.

Correct again. Builders don't like missing out on their 20% money for jam mark ups and have no qualms about customers being delivered overpriced sub standard installations.

FortuneCat
can you explain what a charged or wet system is?

DRY SYSTEM: A sloped downpipe is diverted to the tank's top inlet. When it stops raining, the pipe is dry, i.e., it doesn't retain water.

WET SYSTEM: A downpipe is diverted underground to the tank where it then rises vertically up a pipe (a vertical riser) to discharge to the tank's top meshed inlet. When it stops raining, the diverted pipes (including the downpipes) will retain water to the level of water at the top of the vertical riser.

A wet system is also known as a charged system because the height difference between the top of the vertical riser and the top of the downpipe generates head pressure that allows the water to discharge out of the lower pipe.

FortuneCat
and when water goes into a tank, is a mesh all that is covering the top? im concerned about sitting water going stagnant for long periods and attracting mosquitos. What if i go on holiday for a month. What happens to all that water.

The mesh apertures are less than 1mm (usually 955 microns) which is mosquito proof but a lot of nutrient rich bird droppings and other organic solids trapped by the mesh soon decompose and wash into the tank.

Water is a living entity and there needs to be an air-water interface so it can breathe.

Water settles in the tank, the dirtier water (mostly first flush) is denser than fresh oxygenated water and so the denser (heavier) water settles at the bottom where the microbe and bacteria rich sediments are. Because bacterial break down of organic matter further depletes the neighbouring water of oxygen, the bottom layer of water is called the anaerobic zone. It requires a lot of pollutants to turn all water in a tank stagnant and the sediment layer actually serves as a filter but the worst quality water is always at the bottom where nearly all pumps draw water from!

Water trapped in a wet system that contains organic matter doesn't have an air-water interface and decomposing organic matter can often turn the wet system water stagnant. When it next rains, fresh water pushes the stagnant water into the tank and the tank water can also become stagnant. For this reason, wet systems need to be flushed a few times each year but most flush outlets (if fitted) on urban systems are higher than the underground pipes and so while some water is drained, the wet system remains unflushed.

A best practice rainwater harvesting system will divert good quality water and minimal sediment to the tank and draw the best quality water from the tank to the pump.

FortuneCat
also are pumps generally included/required? i would prefer most hands off solution if possible. But whenever any sort of machinery is involved, that means more components that need to be maintained or can fail.

You will need a pump to supply a laundry but you can supply a cistern provided there is a 1 metre head. I can give details if needed, it is an ultra cheap way to supply rainwater to a cistern but the cistern needs to accept a second cistern valve which most do.

If the rainwater harvesting system is properly set up, even a cheap pump will have a long life but large numbers of pumps are poorly plumbed.

SUBMERSIBLE PUMPS: These operate inside the tank and are popular because being immersed in water makes them silent.

If a submersible pump draws water from the bottom (see red arrows in photo below), it must be placed on a suitable stand above the sediment layer. Failure to do this will cause the pump to vacuum the tank's floor which sends dirty water to the cisterns and laundry and also reduces the pump's life.

Numerous submersible pumps are also subjected to water dropping into the tank through the top inlet causing sediment resuspension and air bubbles around the pump.

EXTERNAL PRESSURE PUMPS:
These need to be under a well ventilated cover out of direct UV. Capacitor failure during hot weather is common when pumps are under unventilated plastic covers exposed to full sun.

The suction hose between the tank and the pump needs to respect about 8 internal diameters of straight length where it connects to the pump's suction side yet many are fitted with 90 degree elbows. Failure to fit a straight length promotes cavitation yet it is common.

Big pumps cost more and can cause water hammer at low fill fixtures at start up. Most big pumps fitted to new homes are just another money grab.

To substantially prolong a pump's life, fit a good size (at least 60 L) pressure tank. A pressure tank stores water and the pump will only start when the pressure tank is nearly empty. It also allows the pump to operate at maximum efficiency plus the tank will absorb any start up pressure wave that could cause hammer. A 60 L pressure tank will reduce pump starts by about 80% when supplying cisterns.

FortuneCat
I also find it weird that washing machines are using this water. Do people wash their clothes with rainwater??

What is weird is that plumbers/installers/designers/text book hero hydraulic engineers put their names to archaic rainwater harvesting systems that divert water to the top of the tank and draw water from the anaerobic zone at the bottom of the tank whereas the best way to fill the tank is through an inlet fitted about 100mm to 300mm (depending on tank size) above the bottom of the tank and to supply the pump from the best quality water that is about 200mm below the water surface at the top of the tank. In other words, the opposite to standard practice is best!

Oxygen rich water entering the tank through a bottom valve quickly de-energises and oxygenates the anaerobic zone. Being low density, it slowly rises, leaving the sediment layer undisturbed.

Water can be sourced from 200mm under the water surface by using a meshed floating outlet hose.

http://www.crystalclearwater.com.au/waterboy/

Washing clothes in clean rainwater is much better than washing in mains water.
Hi everyone!

What a wealth of knowledge there is here!
I’m not able to build a new home at the moment. Hoping to build the bayville 49 one day. Can anyone tell me what the interior wall colour is?

chokyulate
Hi Phoenix

We are looking at Liberty 40 with provincial however was advised it was too Big for 465 SQM land

Wondering how big your land was and how much did it cost for 38 including icon / upgrades

And did they including aircon in upgrades ?
Phoenix77
Hi everyone,

Just found this site a couple days ago and have been devouring the content. Thanks first of all for all your input and for those keeping it real.

We plan to build Liberty 38 with provincial facade in Ryde.
M has done and approved our compliance check on 22 Nov and offered for us to go straight to contract (i.e. skipping tender process), which we accepted so we are currently awaiting contract and have scheduled a contract review meeting with M New Homes Advisor (NHA) 14 Dec.
We reckon we captured all of our basic requirements in terms of structural changes and must-have wants.

Below are items that we have captured during cost and layout change with M NHA:
- Adding bedroom, ensuite and WIR on ground floor
- Ground floor height to 2700 mm and 1st floor to 2550 mm
- Extend outdoor room, include eave 390D
- Include driveway concrete and council cross over
- Butler pantry
- Hebel render
- Added toilet on 1st outside toilet
- Tile on ground and carpet on 1st which we plan to change to timber and our sales consultant provision $5k for us
- 80m island bench and waterfall on both side
- Provide gas connection
- Change electric induction cooktop to gas
- Tile to ceiling on all wet area except laundry
- Upgrade most windows to size to 2100 mm instead of 1500 mm
- Upgrade entrance to 2340H x 1200W Hume Savoy Pivot entry door
- Change and add a couple doors to sliding door (gosh this one really adds up !)
- Change hot water system to Thermann 6 Star 26L 50 degree gas continous flow hot water system


We are quite happy with the draft plan from compliance because we only have to step down garage to 333m, compare to worst-case scenario of having steps inside the house. We only have to cut 800 mm and fill 700 mm. NHA has provision $25k for this so really looking forward to how much will this actually cost since we only have to step garage down.

I am looking forward to advices and encouragement from all of you, the KDR or new build warriors!
Excited but anxious at the same. Cheers

Metricon - Liberty 38 with Provincial facade - Ryde
shokel1975
Kimmykim
Anyone experience leaking from the vent? Ours was leaking badly when the storm came just now. We had cooler guy came over to check our cooler yesterday and wondering whether they have caused the leaking today. Called Metricon and am waiting for them to reply.



Nothing so far, but the timing sound suss. If the cooling guy was there there day prior, sounds like he may not have put everything back where he is supposed to?


You are right. They have broken one of our roof tiles who caused the leak. We have M sending over roof specialist to check and found out that. Now all fixed. Beware next time if anyone going up your roof. They might crack the roof tiles (if you are having roof tiles) while walking on them.
Drew01
What cooling system do you have, and what was the guy there for?



We have Braemar. We called the cooler company to check why it is not cooling and breeze seems to be quite weak even we turn on high. They couldn't find anything wrong with it.
We have this very annoying humming noise coming from the ceiling of our Master bedroom ensuite and the bedroom next to it. The constant humming noise is audible through the whole night till early morning. Around 7am to 8am, there will be a loud banging noise also coming from the ceiling then the humming noise will stop. At first we thought the banging noise was from the construction behind our house but after checking it, it was from inside the house and from the ceiling.
We suspected the humming noise is coming from the water heater due to the antifreeze valve but not sure about the banging sound. My daughter has to shift to another bedroom due to the humming noise. It is really very disturbing. Wondering anyone has this problem and how to solve it. Thanks in advance.
Kimmykim
We have this very annoying humming noise coming from the ceiling of our Master bedroom ensuite and the bedroom next to it. The constant humming noise is audible through the whole night till early morning. Around 7am to 8am, there will be a loud banging noise also coming from the ceiling then the humming noise will stop. At first we thought the banging noise was from the construction behind our house but after checking it, it was from inside the house and from the ceiling.
We suspected the humming noise is coming from the water heater due to the antifreeze valve but not sure about the banging sound. My daughter has to shift to another bedroom due to the humming noise. It is really very disturbing. Wondering anyone has this problem and how to solve it. Thanks in advance.


We have the
dripping noise above our master bedroom, which is the hot water system. Until your post I hadn't thought much about it but we do get a random thumping in that wall too, usually in the morning. It's the external wall so it doesn't affect any room but ours.

Does anyone have an Actron refrigerated cooling/heating unit? Can you help??

We have just restored the factory settings as it was doing some strange things (probably as a result of me playing around with it when we first moved in)... anyway, since I did this today when the unit is in heating mode and set at 22°C, the main control unit gradually starts dropping in temperature by half a degree until it has gone down at least 2 or 3°C. This in turn drags down the zone temperature for the lower floor to then be lower than it was originally set at.

It seems that the zone temperature cannot be any more than 2°C different to the main control unit temperature. We are wondering why the main control unit keeps dropping its set temperature automatically over the course of 30 minutes or so... help!!!

shokel1975
Does anyone have an Actron refrigerated cooling/heating unit? Can you help??

We have just restored the factory settings as it was doing some strange things (probably as a result of me playing around with it when we first moved in)... anyway, since I did this today when the unit is in heating mode and set at 22°C, the main control unit gradually starts dropping in temperature by half a degree until it has gone down at least 2 or 3°C. This in turn drags down the zone temperature for the lower floor to then be lower than it was originally set at.

It seems that the zone temperature cannot be any more than 2°C different to the main control unit temperature. We are wondering why the main control unit keeps dropping its set temperature automatically over the course of 30 minutes or so... help!!!


you really should contact actron air directly via their website
[quote="FortuneCat":1akywgmd][quote="shokel1975":1akywgmd]Does anyone have an Actron refrigerated cooling/heating unit? Can you help??

We have just restored the factory settings as it was doing some strange things (probably as a result of me playing around with it when we first moved in)... anyway, since I did this today when the unit is in heating mode and set at 22°C, the main control unit gradually starts dropping in temperature by half a degree until it has gone down at least 2 or 3°C. This in turn drags down the zone temperature for the lower floor to then be lower than it was originally set at.

It seems that the zone temperature cannot be any more than 2°C different to the main control unit temperature. We are wondering why the main control unit keeps dropping its set temperature automatically over the course of 30 minutes or so... help!!!

[img:1akywgmd]https://forum.homeone.com.au/u/83269_1588338806.jpeg[/img:1akywgmd][/quote:1akywgmd]
you really should contact actron air directly via their website[/quote:1akywgmd]

Only been in house 5 months, so will be contacting M to send someone out.... Just been avoiding that – as they are a pain in the backside to deal with for warranty and service.
Is ur system set on auto? My old actrom one was and it would change itself every half hour or so


Jayjay84
Is ur system set on auto? My old actrom one was and it would change itself every half hour or so


Yes it is... maybe I will try taking it off auto. I also think it may be happening when upstairs is not on and is too cold up there.

Thanks 😊
blackcat20
Kimmykim
We have this very annoying humming noise coming from the ceiling of our Master bedroom ensuite and the bedroom next to it. The constant humming noise is audible through the whole night till early morning. Around 7am to 8am, there will be a loud banging noise also coming from the ceiling then the humming noise will stop. At first we thought the banging noise was from the construction behind our house but after checking it, it was from inside the house and from the ceiling.
We suspected the humming noise is coming from the water heater due to the antifreeze valve but not sure about the banging sound. My daughter has to shift to another bedroom due to the humming noise. It is really very disturbing. Wondering anyone has this problem and how to solve it. Thanks in advance.


We have the
dripping noise above our master bedroom, which is the hot water system. Until your post I hadn't thought much about it but we do get a random thumping in that wall too, usually in the morning. It's the external wall so it doesn't affect any room but ours.


We also have the dripping noise above the ensuite. Anyway, we have contacted M to get Chromagen to come in next week. See what they have to say.
Hi, anyone knows whether we’ll have neutral wire in lighting switch or not?
Also do anyone knows about registering positive covenant for OSD?

Thanks
Phoenix77
Hi, anyone knows whether we’ll have neutral wire in lighting switch or not?
Also do anyone knows about registering positive covenant for OSD?

Thanks

I'm not a sparky, but still think there is red, black and green in the wiring
In regards to the positive covenant, a registered surveyor should help you there, but why could your builder not tell you that?
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