Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Mar 10, 2015 9:18 pm Hi guys - only recently discovered this forum and spent a few days looking through several build threads. I've just got to lockup, with a small building company based in Murrumba Downs. We are building in Central Lakes, Caboolture. I've come this far on my own, having never done this process before but I think I need advice or reassurance for this part! Had a good walk around the property today, and I was shocked at the quality of the workmanship in the bricklaying. I'll attach some pictures. Bearing in mind it all needs to be washed and it's obviously not finished, however I still feel there are several things seriously wrong. Chipped bricks: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Missing mortar, at least 2x different locations. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Uneven brick height and consequent mortar width. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Poor size, shape and repair of holes Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Uneven surface. Note the shadows cast by several bricks as they sit further out than the rest. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This in several locations also. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Again with uneven rows/mortar width. This and the other shots taken from an angle are on a zero boundary. This is where the quality is the worst, by far. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Another shocking hole/fill job Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Bricks on top of the electrical box?! What's that about? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Is this something that's going to be addressed automatically by the site supervisor, and fixed as part of the process, or is it likely that they hope I didn't notice? Thanks in advance. I look forward to hearing your opinions! Cheers - Tony. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 2Mar 10, 2015 10:49 pm Hi, Wow! I wouldn't be happy with it, you're the customer. Ours was the same but we were getting a full render and all walls are straight. I think your concerns are justified, if in doubt call in an independent building inspector. Regards Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 3Mar 11, 2015 5:14 am If it's a small building co it probably does not have display home for quality reference Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 4Mar 11, 2015 6:17 am I seriously dont have an issue with your brickwork. To say it is poor workmanship and there are things seriously, I dont know what you are expecting. Yes the brickwork on the zero lot could have been better but keep in mind they would have had to lay these over the top, or one guy would have been jambed in there with his elbow in his ear while someone handed him a brick. Under the circumstances they have done a good job. Those bricks are notorious for chipping, have the builder contact the brick company they can be patched. The thing I look at that tells me the brickies actually did care is the cut out around the telstra conduits, these are as good as you would see in any brickwork. The water inlet will most likely be covered by a chrome flange fitted at fit off stage. But once again the time they have take to notch out the bottom brick rather then cut the whole piece out shows they were quality trades. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 5Mar 11, 2015 6:33 am Thanks guys. They actually have two display homes. Both of which are immaculate. I say small, like its not Metricon. They have maybe 20-30 properties under construction at the moment, at a guess. Denten - My brother-in-law walked around their estate and said the only house that looks similar to our is getting rendered. Devastating really, we paid the additional to get white mortar, led to believe the brickwork would look amazing. I am getting on to this today, I emailed the office last night but it was after hours, so I'll see how they respond. My partner's old man works in construction and he has taken this like a bull at a gate - not impressed. Apparently only 2mm tolerances from straight and true? I have had a look at the Masonry Standards and Tolerances guide which has some other useful information. He warned us that the builders, or their brickies may try and brush it off initially, then try a payout, but we must keep pushing for a repair or render. Few more. I know everyone loves pictures! Obviously couldn't decide what style of mortar joint to use, nor which depth? This is across the entire house. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Under all the windows, there's these angled bricks. Not sure on the name - Should the ends be exposed raw brick like this? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Underneath the electrical box, unsealed. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So with any luck the builder will just turn to their brickies, and get stuck into them?! I want to keep them on my side, for obvious reasons, but I'm not going to be a push-over about this. The worst of it is on a zero boundary, which is hard to see, but the principle remains. We paid for a job to be done properly, not thrown together. Looking to the future, the resale and valuation will be effected with workmanship like this, without a doubt. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 7Mar 11, 2015 6:54 am I understand the flange will cover the holes- I hadn't considered that. Thanks. Photos kind of make it look better than it actually is. We've had a family friend brickie check out the photos, and it's definitely not good enough. Will see how it progresses over the next few days. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the help so far. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 8Mar 11, 2015 7:55 am I am not sure about other states but in Vic you are entitled to the same quality of workmanship as display home Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 9Mar 11, 2015 10:40 am Thanks mate. I'd say that's got to be expected! Just like a demo car - you assume the one you buy will be the same quality as the one you test drive! I've just been to the site and met the bricklayer, and a supervisor. All the chipped bricks will be replaced. Apparently the mortar under the weep holes will keep falling off even if replaced, due to the wet barrier on that level, and nothing for the mortar to adhere to. (Can someone confirm this for me?) The zero boundary issue was raised several times but I found them to be quite dismissive of the fact. I can't imagine that the standard finish for this level of access would be so bad. I appreciate that its a tight spot, but surely you check your work as you go, and make any adjustments necessary to ensure a straight and level job!? I was told several times that they bricked from inside the garage. I am sure houses have been built with the same access issues and the finish was perfect? Surely! Also the brickie didn't seem to find an issue with the varying thickness of mortar around the whole house. "Only a mil or two out" Seriously?! Any other houses I've looked at are absolutely impeccable. The owner of the company has been informed, and I'm expecting a call from the supervisor later today after they have had a meeting. I'm interested to see what they say.. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 10Mar 11, 2015 8:06 pm I've just read that the technique for building on the zero boundary is called overhand bricklaying, often an additional cost due to difficulty. So surely its possible to achieve a quality finish, it just takes longer and is harder?! This makes me think its more laziness than anything. Also - I've heard in all these new estates there is usually a condition in the covenant or contract which allows a builder to request access by removing the neighbouring fence, and replacing when the wall is finished. I'm pretty sure I didn't notice that in my papers, but should definitely warrant a look into, should we manage to get the wall fixed. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 11Mar 11, 2015 9:33 pm Tony I'm not just being argumentative here I'm telling it as it is. I've been building houses for 35yrs so I've seen a bit of brickwork. Based on what I can see in the photo of the zero lot wall, unless the builder redid it ( just to shut you up) there's not a building authority in the land that would make them pull it down. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 12Mar 12, 2015 11:00 pm I had a zero lot done by same builder because I knew it would be difficult I actually removed all palings on the fence let them brick properly then put the fence back up. However once was finished I put palings up each end and in 4yrs not once did I ever look down there again any way. Building inspector when I sold didn't look down their either as I followed him around. I think the zero lot part you could leave a little, get them to replace the broken bricks and ask for flanges to cover where the services go in. As for mortar variances I guess it comes down to where they are and how often will they be noticed I mean are they under your alfresco or front door or are they under service boxes, down sides or backs out of sight etc pick your battles like you said you don't want to get on the bad side and remember they are human beings and not machines there are variances with all things. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 13Mar 12, 2015 11:21 pm There are regulations and guidelines for a reason. If the brickwork is in breach of those limits then get them fixed. I would ask for the brickwork to be redone where it is defective... otherwise you are accepting a house that is below minimum standard. My builder had to re-brick my entire house because of exactly the same problems that you're having... all 24,000 of them. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 15Mar 15, 2015 5:27 am Cheers tlblhayward, appreciate your help. It seems as though your issues were structural, not just visual? Insane result having the entire place redone! I can't get to the property at the moment, but my partner and her old man are going up today to measure the differences and see if they fit within tolerances. Theres a great guide from QBCC which explains everything. http://www.qbcc.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/Standards_and_Tolerances_Guide_0.pdf MrBee - I wish I had known it was possible to approach the neighbour and ask to remove the fence. It was never raised. I just can't see how this is standard quality workmanship for a zero boundary. I too would never look at it twice, if it was done properly. Other issues which need to be raised are the cornices, which were left exposed, in the open garage during the rain about a month ago. Pretty certain they were used inside the house. But that's for another post! Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 16Mar 15, 2015 8:44 am Our plaster was in the garage as well it didn't get wet I don't see why issue as long as it wasn't sitting in water and doesn't look water damaged. The cornice will be put under your alfresco and exposed to same conditions of it rain again? Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 17Mar 15, 2015 4:31 pm Quote: Cheers tlblhayward, appreciate your help. It seems as though your issues were structural, not just visual? Insane result having the entire place redone! I can't get to the property at the moment, but my partner and her old man are going up today to measure the differences and see if they fit within tolerances. I would not be surprised if they were outside tolerance and therefore they are outside minimum standard. With all due respect to you, mgilla, if my house does not meet minimum standards then I would expect the Building Commissions to uphold the law. I can only speak from my own experience... it was by builder's choice to re-brick my whole house, I just pointed out the regulations. A smaller builder would probably be far worse off financially than the volume builder that I am building with though. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 18Mar 15, 2015 5:54 pm tlblhayward Quote: Cheers tlblhayward, appreciate your help. It seems as though your issues were structural, not just visual? Insane result having the entire place redone! I can't get to the property at the moment, but my partner and her old man are going up today to measure the differences and see if they fit within tolerances. I would not be surprised if they were outside tolerance and therefore they are outside minimum standard. With all due respect to you, mgilla, if my house does not meet minimum standards then I would expect the Building Commissions to uphold the law. I can only speak from my own experience... it was by builder's choice to re-brick my whole house, I just pointed out the regulations. A smaller builder would probably be far worse off financially than the volume builder that I am building with though. Don't get me wrong if its structurally wrong it should be rectified, I've made brickies pull down wall I wasnt happy with long before the owner has even seen it. My comments were based purely on the photo's the OP presented. In my experience as well as the standards the building authority will also look at cost benefit. With that in mind I don't believe they will make the builder pull down a wall on a zero lot boundary because 8-10 bricks are a few mm over the regulation. Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 19Mar 15, 2015 6:14 pm Quote: Don't get me wrong if its structurally wrong it should be rectified, I've made brickies pull down wall I wasnt happy with long before the owner has even seen it. My comments were based purely on the photo's the OP presented. In my experience as well as the standards the building authority will also look at cost benefit. With that in mind I don't believe they will make the builder pull down a wall on a zero lot boundary because 8-10 bricks are a few mm over the regulation. I agree! Re: First home build - Advice needed re: brickwork?! 20Mar 15, 2015 6:30 pm I think we may be pushing water uphill regarding the zero boundary. We have decided to ask for the area to be fenced off on both ends, with access via a gate or a small removable section, as its only 200-300mm wide. This is really only asking for an extra 4 pailings + hinges etc. However on the other side of the house, where our yard is, there is a row approx 5 courses from the top which is 15mm mortar, so its visually obvious, and outside the 10mm+3mm tolerance. This runs the entire length of the house. I am not sure what to do about this either... We are now hoping they can just patch and paint the chipped ones, rather than remove and replace, as there is over 20. I don't want to chance it looking worse. I still would like the ones above the meter box replaced. I'd like to think us relaxing a little will help get the situation resolved amicably. The cornices were piled lengthways in the garage. It rained, hard, for days. They were wet. I went and looked- drove through the estate to see how it coped with torrential rain. I can't see how cornices would be exposed to direct rain up on the ceiling of the alfresco area? Anyway, not to worry... My partner and her old man were at the site today, and as he's a plasterer, he checked out everything inside. He was really happy with the quality of the work, except for an area which hadn't been sanded. He said the cornices looked to be all ok. So that's a relief In other news, our kitchen went in. Very happy! I know this isn't a build thread, but I don't have one Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So it looks like we finally have some movement on site! Definitely later than expected, but I'll take any progress at this point. I'll drop by over the weekend to get… 5 27739 I am in the same situation, would you be able to give some insights in to this? I am in SA 8 17063 |