Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jun 09, 2008 2:13 pm I live in a solid brick place and it's fantastic during the early days of summer. it also cuts out the noise from room to room. But everything I see built today is either brick veneer or weatherboard. My relo's have both and combined with polished boards it echo's the sound making it quite noisy. It's also nice to feel a solid wall, whereas with gyprock, you "tap" "tap" and get that hollow sound.
I did a google search and found only one builder in NSW offering solid brick construction. Is the cost today just too exorbitant? Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 2Jun 09, 2008 2:18 pm d@n I live in a solid brick place and it's fantastic during the early days of summer. it also cuts out the noise from room to room. But everything I see built today is either brick veneer or weatherboard. My relo's have both and combined with polished boards it echo's the sound making it quite noisy. It's also nice to feel a solid wall, whereas with gyprock, you "tap" "tap" and get that hollow sound. I did a google search and found only one builder in NSW offering solid brick construction. Is the cost today just too exorbitant? The costs today IS the main reason not to build a solid brick home. Best Price Wardrobes Sliding door robes | Walk in robes Deco panel | Mirror | Melamine 26 to 28 Cottage lane Hackham M: 0402 927 376 http://www.bestpricewardrobes.com.au Trade welcome Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 4Jun 09, 2008 3:21 pm What state are you in D@n?
To clarify, it's about economies of scale and compliance with relevant standards. In places without extreme climates, such as the eastern states of Australia, it is simply not necessary to build mass produced double brick homes. Other building materials have suitable thermal properties and economies of scale make them viable. However, the exception to this seems to be Perth, where common practice is the construction of double brick homes, due to the extreme climate in Western Australia. However, even taking that into consideration the range of materials out there with good thermal properties means double brick is unnecessary. If someone really wants to build double brick there are custom builders in every state that will be happy to build it, but basically it's unnecessary when other materials have better thermal performance. Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 5Jun 09, 2008 3:48 pm We will be building a 34 sq house - base price starting $250,.000. It would have cost us $100,000 more to build in full brick.
Our 1st home was full brick. The ONLY advantage over b/v was the reduction in noise. It was shockingly hot at night, after a hot day. It was cold, even with gas heating. It would take too long to cool down & too long to heat up. We have now been living in a brick veneer for the last 6 years. Wouldn't live in anything else. Quick to heat up & quick to cool down. THe noise factor however is still a problem but would have fixed by installing insulation b/t floors & b/t rooms, which we will be doing in the new house. Built the Eden Brae Cambridge 34 Family with Boston Corner Facade Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 6Jun 09, 2008 5:43 pm As already mentioned, in Wester Australia a double brick house will cost you no more.
In other states, a low end house will cost 20% more in full brick and a high end house about the same. The thermal performance of full brick compared to brick veneer is much better. You'll get your money back in the long run. (Particularly with energy costs going through the roof and only getting worse.) Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 7Jun 09, 2008 7:39 pm Reverse brick veneer is another option.
Ie bricks inside and iron or some other covering that is insulated on the outside. Keeps the thermal mass inside and it should reduce the costs. Steve Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 8Jun 09, 2008 7:47 pm The Full Brick construction techique is really is hang over of the older generation.. its suitabilty in terms of cost, time and use is not a good option in todays world.
Even basic renovations if needed will cost double ! Buildling a Clarendon Crestmead in Sydney DA Approved on 20/03/2008 Slab Poured on 02/09/2008 Frame Completed 15/10/2008 Brickwork Complete 2/02/2009 Roofwork Complete 05/03/2009 Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 9Jun 09, 2008 8:28 pm lobo The Full Brick construction techique is really is hang over of the older generation.. its suitabilty in terms of cost, time and use is not a good option in todays world. If only there were more "hangovers" from previous generations. I have absolutely no respect for modern Australian building techniques. Take a stroll through some pre-war houses (even those designed for lowly workers) and you'll see extremely solid construction and character features which you'd pay a fortune for these days. Even if those aspects are not important to you, line up present-day Australian builders against Europe. Our building standards are pitifully inferior in everything from insulation and materials toxicity, to green credentials and noise proofing. I still recall one member's pics of a new Perth build where a huge steel beam was held up by three stacked bricks and shudder with horror - as did many European acquaintances of mine. But of course that's perfectly acceptable in WA. As I've previously mentioned, no Australian government is prepared to enforce better building standards because that will increase the cost of new housing - the *last* thing any government wants to be accused of. So we muddle along with pathetic build standards - which of course is also just fine with the lazy building companies. Double-brick is not "old fashioned", it's simply "expensive". Australian mass builders are aiming for two things: "wow factor" for the client, and the cheapest possible build cost within Australian building regulations. Do the hard jobs first. The easy jobs will take care of themselves. - Dale Carnegie Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 10Jun 09, 2008 9:37 pm Many observations to be made here.
I know Perth can be subjected to hot weather, just like the eastern states particularly inland, but how common is -3 or less on a winters night there? Maybe their climate is not so extreme after all. The noise factor that besets a brick veneer house can easily be reduced by installing double glazed windows. Full brick construction is a hangover - just like lath and plaster walls - effective insulation and double glazed windows simply didn't exist way back when! Pre-war houses may be solid, but if modern houses were still built in the same (European?) fashion, hundreds of thousands more of us would be living in high-rise flats (just like Europe!) due to the blow-out in construction costs and the time it takes to build them. Sure, many people aren't happy with the slap-'em-up, volume build philosophy, but with modern technology applied to insulating materials etc, there's nothing wrong with contemporary housing in my humble opinion. Old houses 'feel' cooler and quieter because the ceilings are higher, there are usually trees throwing shade on the house, and the blocks of land that they are built on are usually larger! How can anyone expect their McMansion to be 'quiet' on a 600m2 block compared to their parents' 14 sq weatherboard house on a full quarter acre? Geoff - Decophile. Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 11Jun 09, 2008 9:52 pm I live in a "solid brick" (actually two courses of brick) house from 1920 and quite frankly I'd rather have the superior quality of a timber frame (brick veneer) home any day, with the caveat that it is built properly, which it won't be in Australia. The problem with 99.9% of all houses in Australia today is the total lack of building standards that allows draughty, ** new houses to be built all over the country, brick or veneer.
There is a misconception here that double brick somehow has some magical ability to insulate all by itself. I remember when I first came here overhearing "Aussie houses are built for Aussie conditions; they heat up quickly but they cool down quickly too". Well, yes that they definitely do. Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 12Jun 09, 2008 10:03 pm In the past houses (full brick, etc) were made to last a hundred years. Now, they are cheaper to build but only last about 40 years. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 13Jun 09, 2008 10:08 pm Casa2 In the past houses (full brick, etc) were made to last a hundred years. Now, they are cheaper to build but only last about 40 years. In the year 2048, I will hunt you down to show that my house, currently under construction, is still going strong! Geoff - Decophile. Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 14Jun 09, 2008 10:10 pm Fully agree with Cabinfever.
Why build a solid house when you can put air con full blow in summer, and rack up your heating in winter... Another thing I don't understand (in the cooler climates of AUS), why is everyone keen to shield their house from the sun, when in Melbourne we get about 15 days of really hot weather, yet we put in flimsy windows and put up with terrible inefficient heating systems when we get months of cool weather? Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 15Jun 09, 2008 10:58 pm Eager Casa2 In the past houses (full brick, etc) were made to last a hundred years. Now, they are cheaper to build but only last about 40 years. In the year 2048, I will hunt you down to show that my house, currently under construction, is still going strong! Yeah, just as the bulldozer rolls in. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 16Jun 09, 2008 11:30 pm nothing beats a Perth solid brick wall.....
and yes I do realise that it is only an internal wall and plaster does wonderful things but you do get that hollow feeling..... see its rock solid.... Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 17Jun 09, 2008 11:53 pm One thing that someone mentioned though is the problem with brick absorbing heat and retaining it. In Melbourne, summer days can get up into the high 30's and low 40's quite often, but more often than not you get a cool change later that day or after a couple of hot days. In my old house which was brick veneer the characteristic was that it would absorb the heat slowly and the first day it would remain relatively cool. However after a couple of hot days the house would become almost the same temperature as outside and when the cool change came it would retain the heat. On a summer evening it would be 20 degrees outside and 35 in the house. It could take two or three days of cool weather to cool back down. This made summer unbearable without aircon. The problem was the bricks - you could feel the heat coming from them during the night - put your hand on a brick and it was still 30 odd degrees in 20 degree weather. I can't imagine double brick being an improvement - in fact it would be worse.
I think what’s needed is smarter design such as better insulation, ceiling features designed to let out heat, double glazed windows and so on. Like cabin fever mentioned European houses are far superior in this way - however I disagree that double brick or old fashion construction is the answer to having an energy efficient house. A friend of mine is currently building an eco freindly house and he is using hebel along with gas filled double glazed windows. Even the edges of the slab are insulated so it will be interesting to see how effective it is. Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 18Jun 10, 2008 12:48 am double brick has its good and bad points here in perth, for some unknown reason, the people who built our current home chose red rick with orange clay roof tiles....for a house the is slightly elevated and faces WEST!!!
lucky its only a rental, but still, summer is attrocious, house is red hot until 1am, bu on the other side, in winter, we have a gas convection heater and the house stays toasty for ages. anyhoo i digress, almost no-one builds anything but double brick house here, BUT, some boutique builders are trying the different options, ranging from reinforced concrete filled foam blocks that are rendered after completion to roofing and ceilings in one made from corrugated tin sandwiched over styrofoam. you can even get rammed earth ...if you are happy to pay an absolutely phenomenal price for it. most of the new estates over here specify that house must be of double brick etc blah blah blah, you have to get special permission to build anything else. for the same money here i can get about the same house in nsw, just timber framed, so i don't know how the cost factor comes into it (well not here anyway) Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 19Jun 10, 2008 8:40 am Mozzie One thing that someone mentioned though is the problem with brick absorbing heat and retaining it. In Melbourne, summer days can get up into the high 30's and low 40's quite often, but more often than not you get a cool change later that day or after a couple of hot days. In my old house which was brick veneer the characteristic was that it would absorb the heat slowly and the first day it would remain relatively cool. However after a couple of hot days the house would become almost the same temperature as outside and when the cool change came it would retain the heat. On a summer evening it would be 20 degrees outside and 35 in the house. It could take two or three days of cool weather to cool back down. This made summer unbearable without aircon. The problem was the bricks - you could feel the heat coming from them during the night - put your hand on a brick and it was still 30 odd degrees in 20 degree weather. I can't imagine double brick being an improvement - in fact it would be worse. I think what’s needed is smarter design such as better insulation, ceiling features designed to let out heat, double glazed windows and so on. Like cabin fever mentioned European houses are far superior in this way - however I disagree that double brick or old fashion construction is the answer to having an energy efficient house. A friend of mine is currently building an eco freindly house and he is using hebel along with gas filled double glazed windows. Even the edges of the slab are insulated so it will be interesting to see how effective it is. Mozie, You are spot on. Full brick houses take a long time to change temperature. So for a long series of hot days the house temperature starts to creep up, so that eventually the inside of the house is hot at night. In the end you must choose. Do you want a house that fairly quickly follows the outside temperature (brick veneer) or one that fairly slowly follows the outside temperature? With a full brick house it tends to reduce the extremes, so that for a single hot day the day temperature is significantly lower than outside and for night it is significantly warmer than outside. If you had an enormous thermal mass, then the temperature inside would be the average of the full day's temperature. That is, a constant 28 degrees if the day was as hot as 38 degrees and the night got down to 18 degrees. So you have to choose. I've gone for full brick since I prefer the temperature smoothing effect. Once you have high thermal mass (and high insulation) you can add other things to make things even better: 1) In summer, make sure you ventilate the house at night (and keep the doors closed during the day). This will move the average temperature down. 2) In winter, makes sure the sun enters the house during the day and draw the curtains at night. This will move the average temperature up. If you want an energy efficiency house you need several things and high thermal mass is one of them (the others are insulation, selective shading, zoning, etc). Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solid brick - why don't they build them? 20Jun 10, 2008 8:47 am I lived in Broken Hill for 4 years.
Most houses where Iron clad because it was so hot up there Only the people that could afford to run refrig air condintioner all day where the ones that built in double brick Best Price Wardrobes Sliding door robes | Walk in robes Deco panel | Mirror | Melamine 26 to 28 Cottage lane Hackham M: 0402 927 376 http://www.bestpricewardrobes.com.au Trade welcome Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 16378 If this is a custom build then I would expect the builder to set out the door frame closer to the wall to avoid the gap between architrave and the wall and or specify… 9 8597 I haven’t. But have a Lowe Design home. Not only did I find Matt Lowe patronising and a bully, but the home is NOT TO CODE. I have water coming through the bricks… 1 15416 |