Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 27, 2014 11:10 am Hi guys, I'm sure most of you on the east coast are suffering with all the rain we have had over the past 2 weeks. We received another 20mm in the hunter just last night. Our house is recently completed, but the site (cut and fill on a light slope) has a serious lack of drainage, mini swimming pool in the backyard and the rest is so sodden we sink up to our ankles in mud trying to get to the front door. Surely this is a concern for the slab and piering? Shouldn't the builder have determined a precautionary solution for this beforehand? If excessive settling takes place what options are there to get compensated? Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 3Aug 27, 2014 5:17 pm Yes photos and let us know the soil site classification. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 6Aug 28, 2014 8:44 pm Your Engineers report should outline the drainage design. The responsibility is yours unless you included it in your contract, then its the builders. Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 7Aug 28, 2014 10:27 pm Australian Standards As2870 under section 5.6.3 "buildings on moderately,highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with drainage systems designed in accordance with the following:" and it goes on to describe them section 5.2.1 general requirements surface drainage is again talked about as requirement. section 6.2 under permanent excavations. drainage must be considered. appendix b2.3 (a)drainage of the site. and it goes on there are more references but there are enough contradictions in the standards to keep the lawyers busy. In my opinion the builder can't leave the site poorly drained in which it will effect the foundations.With all the recent slab heave issues it won't be long before it is thrashed out in the courts Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 8Aug 29, 2014 6:28 am insider Australian Standards As2870 under section 5.6.3 "buildings on moderately,highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with drainage systems designed in accordance with the following:" and it goes on to describe them section 5.2.1 general requirements surface drainage is again talked about as requirement. section 6.2 under permanent excavations. drainage must be considered. appendix b2.3 (a)drainage of the site. and it goes on there are more references but there are enough contradictions in the standards to keep the lawyers busy. In my opinion the builder can't leave the site poorly drained in which it will effect the foundations.With all the recent slab heave issues it won't be long before it is thrashed out in the courts Agreed however before you get to AS2870 performance requirements of BCA must be met (for all soil types) PERFORMANCE REQUIREMENT (builder must meet performance requirements of BCA) P2.2.1 Surface water (a) Surface water, resulting from a storm having an average recurrence interval of 20 years and which is collected or concentrated by a building or sitework, must be disposed of in a way that avoids the likelihood of damage or nuisance to any other property. (b) Surface water, resulting from a storm having an average recurrence interval of 100 years must not enter the building. (c) A drainage system for the disposal of surface water must— (i) convey surface water to an appropriate outfall; and (ii) avoid the entry of water into a building; and (iii) avoid water damaging the building. This applies whether it is in the contract or not This applies ahead of AS2870 From the description of OP, site drainage does not meet performance requirements of BCA(c 1 above) and therefore it is defective. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 9Aug 29, 2014 5:21 pm Thanks BE.I think this point will be at the centre of the majority of court cases around the building industry in the future. And I predict there will be hundreds but more likely class actions against builders. Should the builder have installed a engineered designed agi drainage system on highly reactive sites that is flat or is it the owners responsibilty.It's a crucial question. I tended to agree with you BE but there is enough contradictions and jargon in the codes and standards to make it messy. The recent Metricon case largely missed this point but I don't think that will keep happening. Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 10Aug 29, 2014 6:46 pm BE and Insider, Interesting to see the BCA and AS. What happens if a home owner is undertaking storm water and paving after handover? The house is handed over with downpipes which allow rainwater to fall adjacent the foundations. This would have even been happening during the build whilst the builder had control of the site. How could any builder not undertaking the storm water and paving comply with the BCA and AS? Thanks Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 11Aug 29, 2014 6:57 pm Building the Dream BE and Insider, Interesting to see the BCA and AS. What happens if a home owner is undertaking storm water and paving after handover? The house is handed over with downpipes which allow rainwater to fall adjacent the foundations. This would have even been happening during the build whilst the builder had control of the site. How could any builder not undertaking the storm water and paving comply with the BCA and AS? Thanks It's most likely that builder has not complied but without knowing details of your build no one can give you the right answer. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 12Aug 29, 2014 7:30 pm insider Thanks BE.I think this point will be at the centre of the majority of court cases around the building industry in the future. And I predict there will be hundreds but more likely class actions against builders. Should the builder have installed a engineered designed agi drainage system on highly reactive sites that is flat or is it the owners responsibilty.It's a crucial question. I tended to agree with you BE but there is enough contradictions and jargon in the codes and standards to make it messy. The recent Metricon case largely missed this point but I don't think that will keep happening. I agree with you that there is huge amount of litigation still to go and that there is a real danger that it will be derailed for long enough for all the snouts to get a good drink from owner's finances (enough to ruin many lives left over that builders have not already )before finally a right decision is affirmed on appeal. Why do I say that? Because just recently I have met owner who spent 35K on legals and pretend experts and has absolutely nothing of use to show for it. However I am an optimist and think that I can answer your question "Should the builder have installed a engineered designed agi drainage system on highly reactive sites that is flat or is it the owners responsibilty.It's a crucial question." Have a good read of Performance requirements of BCA and it becomes much clear that if building does not meet performance requirements it does not comply. Failure to comply is a builder's defect via breach of warranty. I do not believe that performance requirements of BCA can be contracted out (owner to complete drainage, landscaping etc. because builder is handing over non compliant building. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 13Aug 29, 2014 10:41 pm Building the Dream BE and Insider, Interesting to see the BCA and AS. What happens if a home owner is undertaking storm water and paving after handover? The house is handed over with downpipes which allow rainwater to fall adjacent the foundations. This would have even been happening during the build whilst the builder had control of the site. How could any builder not undertaking the storm water and paving comply with the BCA and AS? Thanks Building the dream It is still happening.All you need to do is drive around any estate and you will see near complete houses with no downpipes connected.The vast majority of new homes on flat highly reactive sites do not have agi drains installed by the builder even after everything the industry is going through due to slab heave.As BE says the BCA trumps AS but sections like c5.2.1 drainage requirements put it back on the owner if it's not in the contract, but in other sections clearly states the builder is required to do certain drainage. I think what we can hope for after the legal storm is that we have one set of universal rules clearly stating what works are required and who is responsible for them. Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 15Aug 30, 2014 11:49 am I don't have my AS2870 handy but temporary downpipes are mentioned in additional provisions when building on H , HD or P class slabs from memory it is addendum to the standard. Some builders are now starting to fit them but fail to maintain them. In the photo above after my report builder had them fitted only to be ripped down few days later. I took plenty of photo in case owner has problem with the home. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 16Aug 31, 2014 11:37 am building-expert I don't have my AS2870 handy but temporary downpipes are mentioned in additional provisions when building on H , HD or P class slabs from memory it is addendum to the standard. Some builders are now starting to fit them but fail to maintain them. In the photo above after my report builder had them fitted only to be ripped down few days later. I took plenty of photo in case owner has problem with the home. Thanks Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 17Sep 11, 2014 11:00 pm Hello Guys, I have serious site drainage problems from the day the slab was poured. Thanks to a homeone forum member (Save H20), I got to know that this poor drainage and water ponding is a serious breach of standards. From that day onwards, I have been fighting with the builder for more than 2 months to get it rectified. Still not fixed. He used crushed rock and mulch to fill pools and that didn't last. Site slope is towards the house. Site supervisor is an idiot who can't have a professional chat. His excuse for not doing it was, BCA standards are not practical as machines go up and down the site making levels uneven. Funniest part was he mentioned that he can't stop raining. My soil class is M but the site class is P. Slab designed with lots of 450mm piers and it's a raft slab. Finally I asked them to provide me an engineer's certificate confirming the integrity of the slab and the compliance with AS2870. I was asked to wait till the pre hand over inspection get those certificates. Site supervisor argues that our slab is not a waffle pod and has lots of piers. So he's confident that nothing goes wrong. But the hesitation in giving me documents in writing is a worry. Please have a look at these photos and let me know whether I have a good case if i take this ahead with BACV or VBA. I don't have faith in the building regulations. I wonder why on earth this was passed by the building surveyor. I feel like holding payments but legally I can't do that. It looks like I'm pumping money into a house that was not build to the standards. Any advice guys? Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 18Sep 12, 2014 1:23 am Hi Subzero_Aus, I'm really sorry to hear that the builder has not been fully reciprocal to your concerns. I await with interest the replies from the forum professionals and also their opinion on the weep hole heights. I am also interested in why it is a class P site. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 19Sep 12, 2014 6:16 am You have every right to be concerned because slab edge flooding is unacceptable and you could end up with serious foundation failure. Your builder is fobbing you off because he thinks you are a pushover. Why isn't your own inspector helping you tackle your builder? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Site Drainage, responsibility? 20Sep 12, 2014 6:27 am SaveH2O Hi Subzero_Aus, I'm really sorry to hear that the builder has not been fully reciprocal to your concerns. I await with interest the replies from the forum professionals and also their opinion on the weep hole heights. I am also interested in why it is a class P site. Hi save H2O, it is classified as P bcoz of the fill. South eastern suburbs. the conduit would need to be undamaged regardless of what network is in play. The conduit needs to be able to have fibre run through it. NBN and Opticomm are just… 4 2890 Hi HomeOne, I'm in the midst of landscaping a cat run down the side of my house, and the recent rains have me wondering if I need to install some sort of drainage. I've… 0 12288 |