


LOL yes I probably sound mean



Browse Forums Building A New House Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 21Aug 07, 2014 10:14 pm ![]() ... however he was relying on cement and concrete association guidelines .... ![]() ![]() LOL yes I probably sound mean ![]() ![]() ![]() My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 22Aug 07, 2014 11:16 pm Firstly, Iam not a big fan of licencing trades and bureaucracies. It reminds me of the Georgian era (England 17C) Art and Craft Guilds which resulted in the new working poor classes..unaffordable homes & Indentured Apprentice labour. In Wa Engineers Inspect, sites, Slabs, Reo, Structural Steelwork, Non Compliance, Wind ,Cyclone framing and issue repair notices on behalf of clients....ive seen some abuse of that power If an engineer stops a concrete pour he may never work for that builder again so you want to inspect the works well in advance. Finally, I dont like getting involved in disputes as I see both sides of the ledger and basically we all make mistakes which need to be dealt with immediately. In order to avoid mistakes I take great care in presenting the best solutions to clients this involves data, Simplified engineering (3D) details/drawings , checklists and Staff training programs, etc,etc. Seen a lot of changes with technology some are helpful some not so, same goes with new materials and construction methods.LOL layers on layers where does it stop? apologies for the rant Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 23Aug 08, 2014 8:48 am ![]() Firstly, Iam not a big fan of licencing trades and bureaucracies. It reminds me of the Georgian era (England 17C) Art and Craft Guilds which resulted in the new working poor classes..unaffordable homes & Indentured Apprentice labour. In Wa Engineers Inspect, sites, Slabs, Reo, Structural Steelwork, Non Compliance, Wind ,Cyclone framing and issue repair notices on behalf of clients....ive seen some abuse of that power If an engineer stops a concrete pour he may never work for that builder again so you want to inspect the works well in advance. Finally, I dont like getting involved in disputes as I see both sides of the ledger and basically we all make mistakes which need to be dealt with immediately. In order to avoid mistakes I take great care in presenting the best solutions to clients this involves data, Simplified engineering (3D) details/drawings , checklists and Staff training programs, etc,etc. Seen a lot of changes with technology some are helpful some not so, same goes with new materials and construction methods.LOL layers on layers where does it stop? apologies for the rant There are four types of mistakes: 1 Genuine mistake, yes we are all human and capable of making a mistake 2 Inevitable mistake When you have builder who does not have proper project control and QA system and employs supervisors that are not properly trained (to save costs) mistakes become inevitable 3 Greed, masquerading as mistake, as a worst case of 2 above where developer having sold units of the plan then goes about substitutions, omissions (including paying for proper supervision) embarks on cost cutting of everything shortchanging the buyer.Or a volume builder cutting down on QA because it is too expensive and because it is too easy sc**ew owners knowing that one in ten disputes will end in VCAT, then 3 in ten will go to decision and the payout will be a pittance.And there is no punishment. It is sad when it is possible to make business decision that doing a bad job is more profitable than doing a good one 4 Stupidity Tradie that will just not invest in occupation that brings him living. Look at his tools, worth nothing but he does have the latest ute and a 60K boat. He has been to all the games but it's been decades since he updated anything about his occupation. When as a young undergraduate I started working for a major builder I still remember my old Pommy foreman who interviewing trades for a job simply said "show me your tool box" and it was either you got the job or there is the door out. If you don't have the right tools (including updated knowledge in your head) you can't do the job. I have no sympathy for 2-4 above Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 24Aug 08, 2014 8:58 am + 1 The only reason our house has become "unaffordable" to us is that we have had to pay to rectify work that wasn't done properly in the first place and will have to pay to chase our builder for compensation. (This is in spite of paying well over $2,000 a square metre.) And the only reason our stormwater system is now compliant is because a member of the bureaucracy chased the plumbers for us. More truly independent certifying and stricter regulation of trades would have avoided the situation we have found ourselves in. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 25Aug 08, 2014 9:48 am ![]() + 1 More truly independent certifying and stricter regulation of trades would have avoided the situation we have found ourselves in. There is the other side of that argument..Stricter regulations of trades and monopolies forces prices up. Why dont you ask the painters guild why acrylic textured coatings costs (much) more than brickwork? If the masons guild was around today I would hate to think how much your house would cost? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 26Aug 08, 2014 10:17 am The degree of incompetence in some trades is beyond alarming. If non adherence to Standards is detected or the workmanship is found to be sub standard, there should be meaningful penalties and suspensions imposed in those categories of work until the tradies (and others) can satisfy the authorities that they are competent to perform to the required Standard (and know the Standards) in their failed category. Most people wrongly believe that the SS knows everything. Apart from some having up to 20 constructions under their 'control' at any one time, the SS cannot possibly know everything. Non adherence to some Standards is inherent in the industry yet non compliance continues to be passed. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 27Aug 08, 2014 10:23 am ![]() There is the other side of that argument..Stricter regulations of trades and monopolies forces prices up. There are a lot of new home owners around who have had huge financial imposts as a result of poor workmanship and non adherence to Standards. You cannot justify lower costs being a benefit of poor workmanship and a lack of knowledge about the required Standards and regulations. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 28Aug 08, 2014 10:23 am ![]() Why dont you ask the painters guild why acrylic textured coatings costs (much) more than brickwork? I wouldn't know any painters. On top of paying more than $2000 per square metre we had to do all of our painting ourselves, inside and outside. ![]() ![]() ![]() Stricter regulations of trades and monopolies forces prices up. I am absolutely for paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. At the end of the day what interests me is that the job was done professionally and that I don't have to wade my way through regulations to chase anyone. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 29Aug 08, 2014 10:34 am @Structural, yes the price will go up possibly for sure, however those that employ quality tradesmen will have lower compliance costs and will be able to secure more business. The first step is to have meaningful fines and recourse against poor quality or sub standard work. Sometimes I suspect that doing it right the first time is actually no more costly. Greater confidence in getting what you pay for would be a welcome change. I know everyone bags the banks but imagine (or remember) when banks could not pay when you wanted your money back. Look at the response from regulators. Now of course that would be the extreme for the building industry and the cost of compliance would skyrocket but there has to be a meaningful middle ground. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 30Aug 08, 2014 11:03 am Sorry I didnt mean to take this thread off topic It is great the client had a win and was awarded damages Kudos BE it just goes to show you can win Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 31Aug 08, 2014 11:07 am Doing things right the first time needn't cost any more and whatever the specs state, the home owner is paying for anyway. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 32Aug 08, 2014 5:56 pm ![]() Brilliant !!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Do you also know for how long it was being left like that (defective)? Or did the owner take any quick fix (band aid) actions or improvisations in order to prevent rain (surface) water going under the slab, once he noticed some issues? Good questions Lex. That was one of contractor's defence points that he wasn't told in time to prevent or limit the damage, however owner is IT engineer and knows nothing about building. He didn't notice anything until he started getting cracking in the laundry kitchen by then it was too late. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 33Aug 08, 2014 9:04 pm Nice work BE. Good news for the home owner. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 34Aug 10, 2014 1:54 pm Wow! From what you said, seems like a long time passed between the concreting job and when the owner first noticed issues! Funny how the concretor tried to pin the timeframe onto the owner ![]() ![]() My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 35Aug 11, 2014 9:13 am ![]() Wow! From what you said, seems like a long time passed between the concreting job and when the owner first noticed issues! Funny how the concretor tried to pin the timeframe onto the owner ![]() ![]() It was three years You are right, if there is no credible defence they will try to create something from nothing and throw up lot of smoke. Contractor was partly relying on newspaper articles to show how reactive soil was and the high incidence of problems in the area but did not mention that despite that he was making a living concreting in the area. One of the issues was that contractor was claiming reliance on cement and concrete association that recommended 1degree fall for paving, but that is not consistent with BCA and BCA prevails. Furthermore he was claiming that it would be visually unacceptable to have 50mm fall on paving around dwelling and admitted to doing hundreds of other jobs just the same as this one. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 36Aug 11, 2014 9:27 am ![]() Furthermore he was claiming that it would be visually unacceptable to have 50mm fall on paving around dwelling and admitted to doing hundreds of other jobs just the same as this one. I'm not surprised at this. I've also been told on several occasions by different concreters that they regularly raise the overflow relief gully, that they don't need to leave the slab exposed for termite protection and that water comes into your house because it is "blown by the rain" and not because the concreting is defective. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 38Aug 11, 2014 12:47 pm ![]() any chance of getting the VCAT reference number? The decision is too fresh to be published, and many decisions are not. If I come across it I will post it, alternatively you can log on and check for yourself. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 39Aug 11, 2014 1:00 pm Yeah I did. Too recent to be published yet. Hence wanting a number to keep track Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: VCAT, owner wins damages for garage slab heave! 40Aug 11, 2014 9:39 pm ![]() Yeah I did. Too recent to be published yet. Hence wanting a number to keep track I look forward to this as well. Need a namee and shame site for these tradies............. 'It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.' Hi, I have a Qld Master Builders contract for our renovation. The contract practical completion date lasped on 2nd Nov 2022, we are now in the realm of damages as per… 0 3559 I mean it is now at 95% complete. The whole build progress has been like this hence even after 18 months we are not into our home yet. They are smaller builder. I… 26 4595 |