Building with Wisdom Homes

PeterJess · Oct 21, 2019 7:25 pm

last few pages are quite interesting.. But I am not sure if it was that helpful for the people that is currently looking at building with wisdom or other builders.

In short, can you negotiate with wisdom? Absolutely.. typically from experience not much. However, The market is slow so feel free to have a good shot at it. But advice from some members suggest that you don’t get your hopes up too high. Worst thing that can happen is having the wrong expectation.

I also suggest reading the forum of other builders and do some comparison yourself. Wisdom’s admin process is slow. But most people that have build with them seems to be pleased with the house (yes, I did read some bad experiences but if you read this thread, the majority seems to be pretty happy)

Now let’s get back to sharing updates and all smiles with this thread

ASJ1981 · Oct 21, 2019 10:58 pm

What a shame some people have to ruin this friendly Wisdom Homes thread. It's become annoying to read and follow. It's come to the point where I've had to delete my blog links on here. Here is hoping Homeone Forum administrators approve my request to deactivate my account.

homeone · Oct 22, 2019 1:11 am

Thank you ASJ1981.

We are very grateful to all valued members whom have participated in this thread and we’d like to see this thread and any healthy debate continue for the sake of all that have participated and continue to follow this discussion, generally speaking.

We kindly ask that all (and respective) members be respectful towards others that provide their good time to add value here, as you would if you were in a face to face setting with one another.

In the interim, should you find any objectionable posts please report the specifics of such utilising the reporting tools so we may act accordingly and where necessary or simply send a PM to homeone, if easier.

Regards,

Jason

SejaeD · Oct 22, 2019 10:19 am

Stukip

Hi All,

At what point does the sewer connection from mains to house become the landowner versus council.

My pipes need work between my front boundary and the main, apparently...

The builder will connect to the boundary. Outside the boundary an accredited plumber will connect to the sydney water sewer. Give me a shout if you want a plumber as I just went through this a couple of months ago. Its generally a pretty simple process depending on the location of the mains.

SejaeD · Oct 22, 2019 10:29 am

J_Wess

I personally think they would be open to some level of negotiation (on the inclusions) and less so on the base build price.
My own comment was trying to explain that none of ua have any real insight into WH's business model and as such, cannot comment with any authority on the matter - no matter how much others may want to grandstand on the topic.

Off course you can negotiate the base price

Any builder can refuse to negotiate, which is why you shouldn't be picking a builder based on whether or not you like their design or not, but as Norfolk points out, there are plenty of other builders who are really desperate for work.

You just have to be willing to walk and not feel that you have to stick with one cause you like the design.

I can confirm that those figures posted by Norfolk are published by the HIA and builders get these and scrutinise their competitors. They have overheads that need to be paid for by keeping the cashflow up.

Just so you know, home builders work on gross margins of 25-30% where as commercial builders will be 5-10%. I am about to let a $6.5M contract for 11 apartments and believe me the 3 builders who have tendered are very willing to negotiate prelims and margins to win the job.

malypetu · Oct 22, 2019 10:56 am

barge27

Hi Everyone,
I’m hoping you could provide some feedback on Wisdom. I am very keen on them as I really like one of their houses as well as their finishes. I have also been very impressed with the sales rep I have been dealing with here in Sydney so my experience so far has been great.

I have found them to be a bit expensive compared to others and am not sure if there is any flexibility in their pricing. Do they negotiate on price or is it 100% fixed? Is there anything else I should be aware of or look out for before I commit to them? Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

barge27 I can only tell you my experience (very limited). I did my homework with many builders and for several months, I've discarded some of them even after doing initial reports which cost me around $2k, that was due to reports of friends or people telling me their experiences. In terms of negotiations, pretty much all happens at the beginning of the conversations, they will offer this and that and rebate this and that, however, don't expect too much in terms of cost. My experience was pretty much on the inclusions offered, that was the key issue. Wisdom was the best for me.
Having said that, the cost (can/will) escalates when you have to decide what 'extras' you want to include, floors, paint colors, tiles, kitchen bench 40mm or standard, a waterfall on the side of the bench, type of windows, etc.

Tip, If you get in the inclusions what you want/need (negotiate hard on this), then stick to them!! don't change your mind, if you have to, only do it for structural things you must have. They have very good inclusions.

In terms of the contract, is standard and they won't agree to change 'a single comma' (my own experience)

Water retaining can be an expensive factor, check you council regulations, talk to the builder beforehand, make a spreadsheet for each vendor, must be exactly the same for all vendors, place cost for each element, do it by room, now you can effectively compare builders.

Demolition, there are a lot of companies and varies in cost and quality of work. Do lots of research on their credentials, we were this close to engage one until I found out it was in court with lots of customers complaining of excessive charges after been quoted a low initial price.

Hope this helps, as I said my experience is limited, I've done a lot of research on my own, reading blogs, talking to people friends etc. It was frightening at best, as this is a very costly exercise and experience is normally limited, too many unknowns, council regulations, etc.

Cheers

SejaeD · Oct 22, 2019 11:11 am

malypetu

barge27

Hi Everyone,
I’m hoping you could provide some feedback on Wisdom. I am very keen on them as I really like one of their houses as well as their finishes. I have also been very impressed with the sales rep I have been dealing with here in Sydney so my experience so far has been great.

I have found them to be a bit expensive compared to others and am not sure if there is any flexibility in their pricing. Do they negotiate on price or is it 100% fixed? Is there anything else I should be aware of or look out for before I commit to them? Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

barge27 I can only tell you my experience (very limited). I did my homework with many builders and for several months, I've discarded some of them even after doing initial reports which cost me around $2k, that was due to reports of friends or people telling me their experiences. In terms of negotiations, pretty much all happens at the beginning of the conversations, they will offer this and that and rebate this and that, however, don't expect too much in terms of cost. My experience was pretty much on the inclusions offered, that was the key issue. Wisdom was the best for me.
Having said that, the cost (can/will) escalates when you have to decide what 'extras' you want to include, floors, paint colors, tiles, kitchen bench 40mm or standard, a waterfall on the side of the bench, type of windows, etc.

Tip, If you get in the inclusions what you want/need (negotiate hard on this), then stick to them!! don't change your mind, if you have to, only do it for structural things you must have. They have very good inclusions.

In terms of the contract, is standard and they won't agree to change 'a single comma' (my own experience)

Water retaining can be an expensive factor, check you council regulations, talk to the builder beforehand, make a spreadsheet for each vendor, must be exactly the same for all vendors, place cost for each element, do it by room, now you can effectively compare builders.

Demolition, there are a lot of companies and varies in cost and quality of work. Do lots of research on their credentials, we were this close to engage one until I found out it was in court with lots of customers complaining of excessive charges after been quoted a low initial price.

Hope this helps, as I said my experience is limited, I've done a lot of research on my own, reading blogs, talking to people friends etc. It was frightening at best, as this is a very costly exercise and experience is normally limited, too many unknowns, council regulations, etc.

Cheers

Great post

I agree with about 90% of what you have said.

My point is two fold; 1. similar to buying a car where we all know that you get the best deal if you go at the end of the month when the salesman is under pressure to meet his or her budget you will get a bigger discount, at the moment as most project home builders are suffering numbers wise. There is pressure on management to keep the cash rolling in for their shareholders and to also keep their jobs. Therefore, at the moment you stand a better chance then normal to get a discount if you ask and are willing to take your business elsewhere if they dont agree to negotiate.

2. The problem with the homebuilding sector, is that it is set up for people to be in a position where they cant negotiate. ie you fall in love with a design, pay $1500 or $2,000 for a survey and soil report and by the time you are ready to negotiate, you have already invested so much money that they count of people not being willing to walk away and leave money on the table.

What people should really do, is take that $2,000 and get their own draftsperson to do a sketch and then take that to several builders and have them price it up. You will find that there are quite few small to medium builders who dont have the large overheads that the bigger builders do who would love to price up your design. This way it's your design and you can choose a builder based on their quality and their price.

Please dont take this as a Wisdom bashing post, as I really respect what Mark Scully is doing with Wisdom and I think they build quite nice homes. Just trying to share some insights into an industry I have been working in for over 20 years and help people learn from my mistakes

Norfolk · Oct 22, 2019 5:41 pm

Manhattan70

I have been silently following this thread for a while now and find the recent attempts at censorship by certain members of other members views interesting.

Robust discussion and challenging views should be welcomed and not shut down. Some of us actually like to see and read of other's people's experiences, thoughts and perceptions whether they be positive or negative (whether these experiences are based on building with Wisdom or not). This helps people, especially those who are building for the first time or those who are not accustomed to reading the fine print or negotiating etc, to go into things with their eyes open and perhaps think about things they may not have considered. At the end of the day however everyone will have their own experience and it is up to each person to form their own views and conclusions and negotiate their own contract.

But to answer the above question, the fact is that everything is negotiable, even the base price, if you speak to the right person.

I also find the attempts at censorship by certain members of other’s views in this thread quite interesting, particularly given the background of this issue with Wisdom Homes and the ACCC last year: https://www.accc.gov.au/public-register ... up-pty-ltd

SejaeD · Oct 22, 2019 5:52 pm

Norfolk

Manhattan70

I have been silently following this thread for a while now and find the recent attempts at censorship by certain members of other members views interesting.

Robust discussion and challenging views should be welcomed and not shut down. Some of us actually like to see and read of other's people's experiences, thoughts and perceptions whether they be positive or negative (whether these experiences are based on building with Wisdom or not). This helps people, especially those who are building for the first time or those who are not accustomed to reading the fine print or negotiating etc, to go into things with their eyes open and perhaps think about things they may not have considered. At the end of the day however everyone will have their own experience and it is up to each person to form their own views and conclusions and negotiate their own contract.

But to answer the above question, the fact is that everything is negotiable, even the base price, if you speak to the right person.

I also find the attempts at censorship by certain members of other’s views in this thread quite interesting, particularly given the background of this issue with Wisdom Homes and the ACCC last year: https://www.accc.gov.au/public-register ... up-pty-ltd

I dont get the censorship either. I guess some people may feel that you are criticising their choice of builder and take it personally.

Norfolk I know your background and the senior level of management you work at within the Construction industry therefore I respect your comments, especially when it comes to QA policies, but perhaps some people who don't realise that you actually are well connected and know what you are talking about and just think you are a disgruntled Metricon customer, so therefore discount your wise comments.

Keep on sharing the wisdom

Manhattan70 · Oct 22, 2019 6:26 pm

SejaeD

Norfolk

Manhattan70

I have been silently following this thread for a while now and find the recent attempts at censorship by certain members of other members views interesting.

Robust discussion and challenging views should be welcomed and not shut down. Some of us actually like to see and read of other's people's experiences, thoughts and perceptions whether they be positive or negative (whether these experiences are based on building with Wisdom or not). This helps people, especially those who are building for the first time or those who are not accustomed to reading the fine print or negotiating etc, to go into things with their eyes open and perhaps think about things they may not have considered. At the end of the day however everyone will have their own experience and it is up to each person to form their own views and conclusions and negotiate their own contract.

But to answer the above question, the fact is that everything is negotiable, even the base price, if you speak to the right person.

I also find the attempts at censorship by certain members of other’s views in this thread quite interesting, particularly given the background of this issue with Wisdom Homes and the ACCC last year: https://www.accc.gov.au/public-register ... up-pty-ltd

I dont get the censorship either. I guess some people may feel that you are criticising their choice of builder and take it personally.

Norfolk I know your background and the senior level of management you work at within the Construction industry therefore I respect your comments, especially when it comes to QA policies, but perhaps some people who don't realise that you actually are well connected and know what you are talking about and just think you are a disgruntled Metricon customer, so therefore discount your wise comments.

Keep on sharing the wisdom

And the moderator did say quite clearly they'd like to see the healthy debate continue.

PeterJess · Oct 22, 2019 7:27 pm

just a personally view so please hold on to your firing

Since started build I have pretty much read this forum everyday and I mean not just this wisdom thread..

SejaeD and Norfolk I have came across your post And comments multiple times before and personally I do see a lot of expertise and knowledge so thanks for the sharing and helping others.. it is an open forum so all comments are welcome for sure..

However most of us are probably not at the level of you guys (girls?) so some of your advice might not be too applicable if take literally.

SejaeD as you suggested, 6.5M and 11 apartments of course you have much more bargaining power. One fear factor I had was if I try to squeeze too hard, will they cut corners or hit me back with other cost later. And as a first time build, I really don’t have much knowledge to call them out or will they even just drag out my build (again this thought isn’t wisdom specific).

Price negotiation is always an interesting thing.. if someone told me they got 10k off the base price, that’s probably what I would expect too.. some feedback from others are purely advice from their experience with wisdom. I do think they are valuable too because that sets a more in line expectation.. again, I agree the market is slowing much more than when most of us were negotiating our tender, so feel free to go nuts with Bargaining.

Also the option of taking it to a draftsman and getting quote from builder might be a dawning task for a lot of first home build people without your experience.. personally we went with wisdom (or any volume builder) because at least we are guided throughout the journey. At least this was the thinking anyway and so far, they have been quite good. For anyone looking at taking this path I do suggest you start a new thread and I am sure you will get tonnes of useful tips

For the other members that commented, thank you for your help.. I have read this thread for a year now so your suggestion in the past did help me a lot so please continue to update this thread.. I have even pm some of you in the past and you have been very helpful so thanks again. You know who you are..

Now where were we with this thread?

Norfolk · Oct 23, 2019 7:16 am

PeterJess Thank you for your contribution to this healthy discussion.😀 The more information prospective customers have the more empowered they are to negotiate the best deal with Wisdom, or with the other volume builders they consider. Understanding the situation and having alternative options is important in successful negotiation. Its not rocket science! Successful negotiation is not beyond the capability of normal educated people who are spending their over $400,000K and 2 years on their build, nor is talking to a surveyor or draftsman. Where to now with this thread? Why don’t you kick off with a positive post here that provides members some insights into your build with Wisdom? What region, design and facade? What stage are you at? How were any issues that arose resolved? How is Wisdom’s communication and quality performance? What have you learnt? etc... Your sharing will complement the couple of comments you have made on this thread over the past 16 months and it will provide some valuable insights for forum members, and the Wisdom Homes team.😀

SejaeD · Oct 23, 2019 11:42 am

PeterJess

just a personally view so please hold on to your firing

Since started build I have pretty much read this forum everyday and I mean not just this wisdom thread..

SejaeD and Norfolk I have came across your post And comments multiple times before and personally I do see a lot of expertise and knowledge so thanks for the sharing and helping others.. it is an open forum so all comments are welcome for sure..

However most of us are probably not at the level of you guys (girls?) so some of your advice might not be too applicable if take literally.

SejaeD as you suggested, 6.5M and 11 apartments of course you have much more bargaining power. One fear factor I had was if I try to squeeze too hard, will they cut corners or hit me back with other cost later. And as a first time build, I really don’t have much knowledge to call them out or will they even just drag out my build (again this thought isn’t wisdom specific).

Price negotiation is always an interesting thing.. if someone told me they got 10k off the base price, that’s probably what I would expect too.. some feedback from others are purely advice from their experience with wisdom. I do think they are valuable too because that sets a more in line expectation.. again, I agree the market is slowing much more than when most of us were negotiating our tender, so feel free to go nuts with Bargaining.

Also the option of taking it to a draftsman and getting quote from builder might be a dawning task for a lot of first home build people without your experience.. personally we went with wisdom (or any volume builder) because at least we are guided throughout the journey. At least this was the thinking anyway and so far, they have been quite good. For anyone looking at taking this path I do suggest you start a new thread and I am sure you will get tonnes of useful tips

For the other members that commented, thank you for your help.. I have read this thread for a year now so your suggestion in the past did help me a lot so please continue to update this thread.. I have even pm some of you in the past and you have been very helpful so thanks again. You know who you are..

Now where were we with this thread?

Thanks for your great post!

I really cant disagree with anything you have said.

I was thinking about this overnight, and I have to say that one of the reasons I have enjoyed following the Wisdom forum is that it has been a really positive and friendly place where people have shared their builds and helped each other out.

So I am very sorry if I have been a part of injecting any negativity into this thread, that wasnt my intention.

I would also like to say that for those of you who have chosen Wisdom, i personally think you have made a very good choice. I cant recall a time when one of their customers complained about quality, and their management have made themselves very accessible to resolve any issues that do arise, which is very very rare.

From now on I will try and just stick to answering any technical questions people may have. I am always available if anyone has any technical issues they dont understand, you can also PM if you dont want it public.

Now lets all try and stick to the positivity

SejaeD · Oct 23, 2019 11:45 am

ASJ1981

What a shame some people have to ruin this friendly Wisdom Homes thread. It's become annoying to read and follow. It's come to the point where I've had to delete my blog links on here. Here is hoping Homeone Forum administrators approve my request to deactivate my account.

Please dont leave the forum. I personally love hearing about your build and looking at your photos. I have followed your build since the early design phases and your colour selections and you have provided some really good insights as well for others to learn from

Norfolk · Oct 23, 2019 1:12 pm

ASJ1981 Ditto for me! Please don’t leave the forum. I have also followed your posts with interest, i have appreciated your sharing of aspects of your build to help others, and the good advice you have generously provided. Open, positive, supportive advice and healthy discussion is what this forum is all about! Lets all continue this engagement!😀

malypetu · Oct 23, 2019 1:50 pm

Please let us not to stop our productive forum because we encounter a problem. This is exactly the way it should be, we encouter problems and we solve them in order to achieve our collective objective of having our dream home.
I personally love to see the progress of each and every one of you and to learn and share experiences. If on top of that we get to see your blogs with pictures of the progress is a big encouragement.

BigD · Oct 23, 2019 2:25 pm

Designer Facade
(With or without balcony)

Anyone done colours that are different from Wisdom brochures and display homes??

How much rendering have you done? Some, all??

What sort of dollars did you spend to render?

Is it robust?
The pillars are tall and thin, has anyone had cracked rendering? Got to love building on clay in Sydney!!

Any opinions, and thoughts, please share.

SejaeD · Oct 23, 2019 2:32 pm

BigD

Designer Facade
(With or without balcony)

Anyone done colours that are different from Wisdom brochures and display homes??

How much rendering have you done? Some, all??

What sort of dollars did you spend to render?

Is it robust?
The pillars are tall and thin, has anyone had cracked rendering? Got to love building on clay in Sydney!!

Any opinions, and thoughts, please share.

Quick technical answer: you're correct, if they use a sand and cement render with a paint finish it will end up cracking ( that's around $55/qm) but if they use an acrylic render such as Rockcote or Acrotex for $65-$70/sqm its highly unlikely to crack.

So really depends on which method Wisdom uses.

malypetu · Oct 23, 2019 2:55 pm

Hi
Does anybody know how much extra will cost to have floorboards on the living/dining room and tiles on the kitchen floor? I understand there will have to be a sort of level adjustment due to different hight between tiles and floorboards and will attract an extra cost.

Also if you can tell me how much it cost to have a color schema for the walls. I understand the inclusions allow the house to be painted only in a single color and every extra color will attract charges, but I don't know how much it will be/.

SejaeD · Oct 23, 2019 3:12 pm

malypetu

Hi
Does anybody know how much extra will cost to have floorboards on the living/dining room and tiles on the kitchen floor? I understand there will have to be a sort of level adjustment due to different hight between tiles and floorboards and will attract an extra cost.

Also if you can tell me how much it cost to have a color schema for the walls. I understand the inclusions allow the house to be painted only in a single color and every extra color will attract charges, but I don't know how much it will be/.

with careful material selection you should be able to get your tiles and timber to sit flush. Typically engineered timber is 14-15 mm which you can either direct glue or lay on a 5mm rubber underlay A reasonable quality brand will set you back $120/sqm laid.

Tiles are generally 10-12mm thick and you can have your tiler lay them on a screed which can be any thickness you like to match up to the height of the timber. You can get a nice large format tile for $50-60/sqm and tiling will cost roughly the same.

So if you budget $120/sqm for everything you will be fine