Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 27, 2014 9:57 pm Hi Everyone. I am currently building a home with a project builder. I have asked to be credited for the standard sink and upgrade with my own. The kitchen sink retails for $1,890. The builder has come back quoting supply and install for $2,305. I can't seem to understand how they price (ie credit standard sink and supply my choice knowing their buying volumes that they would still get a favourable discount from the suppier). They have also stipulated that only they can supply the sink. Has anyone come across this type of situation and how it was dealt with? Is there also some legal avenue I could investigate to see what my rights as a consumer are? Any advice would be great. Thanks Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 2May 27, 2014 10:40 pm SP77 - Posting as I'm keen to hear peoples views on this also. We've just found ourselves in a similar situation. To be fair to our Builder (Summit), a vast majority of variations have seemed reasonably priced to us, however 2 variations fall into the same bucket you've described and we're in the process of questioning these prices with them: 1) Kitchen Sink - Supply and Install Abey Schock N200B in lieu of standard - $1529 (RRP for this sink is $1127) 2) Toilets - Provide 2 x Caroma Stirling Wall Faced Toilets in lieu of standard toilets (Caroma Profile) - $1662 (RRP for the Stirling toilets is $673 each) Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 3May 28, 2014 6:39 am I've said this before in other posts, you build with a project builder and make changes you will pay a premium for it. If you want to change a sink by chance they will contact there supplier and ask for a quote on sink B, is doesnt matter you may be able to buy sink B retail at a chain hardware for $500 less. It will be what they pay for it from there supplier plus 20% margin on top. You may also incur an admin fee for the variation. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 4May 28, 2014 7:46 am On top of what mgilla has said - I had a similar question of my builder with the kitchen sink. The standard was overmount and we chose an undermount which the builder seemed to quote at well above retail but this quote also included the cut and polish of the opening for the undermount sink. Could your builder be doing the same? http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 5May 28, 2014 8:42 am We wanted to supply our own sink, but they said nO we are suppling the ovens and hotplate, why not the sink too! it all going to the cabinet maker Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 6May 28, 2014 9:13 am I have had this with a number of items and I always present the RRP price to the builder explaining that I do not expect to pay more than retail as builders margin should be able to be made from the difference between trade price and RRP. I would also ask if there is anything technically different with the install of the replacement item. As people have said above, undermount will incurr more as it is more to install. For toilets I would think that a wall faced toilet is the same regardless of model. Remember though that volume builders buy thousands of said items so the credit will be minimal. In fact that was one of the reasons I switched to Villeroy and Boch for my basins and toilets as the upgrade price was not that different from Caroma. For the cases mentioned I would challenge and ask for it to be explained as the costing department may be stacking it on and I have found quite a few errors in this respect. The challenge needs to be made. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 7May 28, 2014 10:47 am what you guys need to understand is that they need to make a profit off everything. they will charge you RRP, or at most they will get 30% off RRP, then add 50% onto it anyway install + 50% (and most subbies will charge a minimum 250 for anything) Delivery + 50% + Overheads, It sucks but a company is never going to lift a finger for free. If you cant supply it yourselves and then get a quote for install only then you either make the choice to shop around for your own trade quote or bite the bullet and pay up! Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 8May 28, 2014 11:05 am Yeah exact same thing happened with us. Somehow the upgrade sink we wanted ended up being like $500 more expensive than retail and that's after credit back for the "standard" sink. Installation should have been the same as both standard included and upgrade sinks were undermount. We kicked up a stink and eventually the "manager authorised a discount of $170" whatever that means but that was all we got. These big builders can be pretty immoveable. I guess this is where they make their money. Build thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65085 Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 9May 28, 2014 12:58 pm I have no problem with any business trying to make a buck, however I do object when things are grossly overpriced. For example when I was going to go with a project builder, the price they quoted for a Taylex 31500 litre concrete water tank and water pump was just a shade under $11000. When I went owner builder the same supplier charged me $4750 for the tank including delivery and install in to a hole already dug when the house pad was cut and filled. If I had've got Taylex to dig the hole and backfill it in, they would have charged me another $2000. So as a owner builder I would have paid no more than $6750 for the same thing, add on a water pump at around $400, that'd take it to $7150. Giving a project builder another $3850 for them to lodge an order with Taylex is highway robbery. I reckon $300 - $500 tops is the most I'd accept them to charge on top, and I was a one-off order with Taylex, never to be seen again for another purchase, so I'm sure a project builder would be paying less that I did. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 10May 28, 2014 1:13 pm Your definetly not wrong. But the larger the company the bigger the over heads, going smaller is always a better idea money wise. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 11May 28, 2014 2:48 pm LaceyM Your definetly not wrong. But the larger the company the bigger the over heads, going smaller is always a better idea money wise. Only if you're making variations, if you're getting the Standard Widget Mk III built by Megahomenicon with no changes at all the bigger builder will usually be cheaper. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 12May 28, 2014 2:54 pm But that would normally be what youd get given if its standard so ofcourse its cheap - these guys are picking things that arent standard so there is always going to be exceeded costs Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 13May 28, 2014 3:09 pm I just meant that as a generic statement it's not true that a project builder will cost more; however, variations will probably appear to cost more on-paper than the same variation with a smaller builder. However it'd have taken a lot of variations to get the build-cost of the standard version of our project house to add the extra $700k to catch-up with the custom builder's $1.15m. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 14May 28, 2014 3:14 pm Forg Widget Mk III built by Megahomenicon Build thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65085 Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 15May 28, 2014 5:59 pm Why not go out and price the steel for the slab and the concrete and the frame and trusses and roof, plaster board doors tiles kitchen, seriously where does it end. If you don't like it pull the contract go owner builder and stop the belly aching. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 16May 28, 2014 6:24 pm I think there is a point to be made and charges for variations should still represent a fair trade for both parties. I have seen quotes come in at more raft 100% more than rrp which are then brushed off as an oversight error. Or credit items being much less or forgotten. I appreciate that it can be swings and roundabouts but I disagree that it is belly aching. After investing time, money, effort and emotional energy at some point the builder knows they have you over a barrel. It's kinda funny, suck it up when stung higher than what would be an appropriate margin and suck it up when builders make errors and for sake of keeping things rolling accept less than what was contractually agreed. Exactly when does the swing or roundabout come back to the home owner. The above is not aimed at anyone so no flames please. Just interested. I would be willing to pay more if it guaranteed quality but in most cases I think spread goes in the builders pocket. Worse off if you supply and something goes pear shaped you enter he said she said land. Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 17May 28, 2014 7:31 pm AussieMark I totally agree, im an estimator so I just try to get people to understand sometimes bigger companies cost more as like my company we outsource everything, so we put margins on it all as opposed to a business owner whos a one man show, he wont charge you price + margin for delivery or install as he is doing it himself I know from experience they do leave out credit for un wanted items but its all because they could make the money! People are shifty and will always try get more money than they are entitled to As long as we are all vigilant and have attention to detail and question the prices we are given we will all be okay! Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 18May 28, 2014 7:56 pm Thanks everyone for your responses. I completely understand how the builders margin/ variation thing works. Quite simply I just do not understand why they are marking up so much when the sink is supplied by the same supplier that they use. I am just annoyed at the fact that I cannot be provided by a logical explanation for the markup. I have found that these big builders do not like too many questions and my impression is that they prey on ignorance Re: Project builder and installing my own kitchen sink 20Jun 03, 2014 10:45 pm MeAndZeph SP77 - Posting as I'm keen to hear peoples views on this also. We've just found ourselves in a similar situation. To be fair to our Builder (Summit), a vast majority of variations have seemed reasonably priced to us, however 2 variations fall into the same bucket you've described and we're in the process of questioning these prices with them: 1) Kitchen Sink - Supply and Install Abey Schock N200B in lieu of standard - $1529 (RRP for this sink is $1127) 2) Toilets - Provide 2 x Caroma Stirling Wall Faced Toilets in lieu of standard toilets (Caroma Profile) - $1662 (RRP for the Stirling toilets is $673 each) Very pricey. FYI, I purchased 3 Stirling toilet suites for $315 each when owner building my house. You could retro fit it cheaper, but the only issue is the water input is on the top left hand side of the cistern. Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. 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