Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Mar 20, 2014 2:34 pm Hi All, So when we sat down to do our pre-start we were given 3 options for our crossover. 1 - DIY 2- they lay bricks on sand 3- limestone base. 3 was significantly more than 2, so we went for option 2. Signed everything, no worries. Fast forward 2 weeks and they come back saying the shire of Gosnells wont accept the builders spec, and that they can only do option 3. To cut a long story short, they want another 1400 off us. Im so angry at this, and I think they should pay for their mistake by doing the limestone at no extra charge. We since discovered every council is pretty much the same. Why did they offer us the option of sand, let us spend money at pre-start, then come back and say, "oh, we need more money as we messed up" Do we have a case here? Has this every happened to anyone else? Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 3Mar 20, 2014 2:53 pm First advise is to chill They have no case to answer sorry I'm no expert but if that's a shire requirement it's not the builders fault. Doesn't the shire give a rebate if you install to their requirements or has that fallen by the wayside? I recall that they did that previously. Your other option is to revert to DIY I guess 101 Residential in Burns Beach viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67711 Shire Approval 31.12.13 Slab Down 15.02.14 Moved in 14.10.14 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 4Mar 20, 2014 2:55 pm Here you go (sorry if you already knew this) Permanent vehicle crossing and driveway It is a requirement of the Local Government Act and the City that an application must be received before a crossing, also known as a crossover, is constructed. The crossing must be constructed in accordance with the City's specifications and a subsidy can be paid after the construction is completed. The links below provide specifications (which includes the application form), information sheets and online application forms, as well as standard drawings to assist you. Please contact the Engineering Support Officer on 9492 0138 if you require further clarification on any of these matters. http://www.gosnells.wa.gov.au/Your_property/In_your_street/Crossovers_and_driveways 101 Residential in Burns Beach viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67711 Shire Approval 31.12.13 Slab Down 15.02.14 Moved in 14.10.14 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 5Mar 20, 2014 6:02 pm Thanks for the links, ill take a look. Also, as first home builders, I dont think its unreasonable to expect my builder, who builds thousands of homes every year, to know a basic shire requirement. Why would I know about local council requirements? Its not my trade, and I am trusting them to know! Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 6Mar 20, 2014 6:23 pm Just my 2 cents here.. It is not a good idea to totally trust your builder and rely on him telling you everything. As a matter of fact, the owner will need to do some homework themselves too. Not that the owner will need to know everything, but without some research and at least know the basic to things, it will be hard along the line when something goes wrong. Doing some research on things will save a lot of hassles later. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 7Mar 20, 2014 10:51 pm I wouldn't agree to that. You would only need the limestone base in the area if the crossover not the whole driveway and even so the builder should know what is required and should not have offered you something that can't be done. I wouldn't pay it. A good, qualified builder should know what is required and as such should provide you with all the information at the start. It's not like the council suddenly changed the rules. My build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=68002 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 8Mar 21, 2014 1:00 am With all due respect, I do not think it is relevant that you are a first home builder. You have a vested interest in knowing what is going on and what the rules are for the shire that you will build in. While building companies build lots of homes it is not reasonable to think that they would know every single local code and r-code for every block. I really wish they would but a little checking goes a long way and you can spot where the easy out is being taken. I would much rather that they get the build right and screw up on the crossover, after all you will not be living in the cross over. I also do not think that the builder has made any mistake. They have presented options, one of which is not viable as the council will reject. I had similar issues with set backs for my house, but because I read the r-codes and understood them it resulted in a further 0.75 m being incorporated into my back yard. The stirling shire and bayswater shire allow various different crossovers, so it may not be all shires. Personally I would pick my battles and for 1400, while the amount is not insignificant, it is also not outrageous as your crossover would have to be about 25sqm. Also would it not be a better result with a limestone underlay? I would have thought so. Try you luck, maybe they may come to the party with a reduced amount. Good luck. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 9Mar 21, 2014 2:40 am I take it the angers coming from not having the money or running to a tight budget. Its dissapointing but you will just have to deal with it. Incidently who's your builder? Do you want me to list the Problems Ive had.............................What about $50 Grand of earthworks, but yeah I didnt realise the bank wont give me any cash(and they didnt tell me)..................until the slabs down You see I organised the earthworks "off Farm" (seperate to the builder)to save myself cash Slab Down :Of course the Earthworks and Limestone Guys needed payment before that. I didnt get angry, but I did have to phone a relative and "touch" a close personal mate for coin................$1400 bucks I wouldnt stress too much...............Angers wasted in these building projects. Hey! one day were going to have these Houses built then we can tell everyone "It was a piece of cake" Saving money on quality stuff done right firstime Our Build Thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66810&p=1094349#p1094349 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 10Mar 21, 2014 6:38 am It's just the crossover part that needs a limestone base, right? the footpath? AFAIK the rest of your driveway can be sand base. In our council we are required to concrete the crossover and some people still have bricks for the rest of their driveway. It looks a little odd, but that's what they wanted. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 11Mar 21, 2014 8:15 am Hi I think there is only one option to begin with Having the builder do the cross over Do it after handover will cost you about the same as getting the builder to do it, unless you do it your self You will still need to have the limestone base, pavers and hopefully the paves will match the one already there. If you are like me and don't have the time or skills to do the paving you will need to find someone to do it for you. So by the time you find someone it could be weeks or months later and your driveway may have fallen apart by then if you have been driving on it. Your builder should have know this in the first place, unless your build is the first they have done! We got our builder to double check the price for our crossover as it came over $2,500. Our cross over is over 4 m long. Maybe your prestart person was new to the job? You can always write a nice and friendly email about having to pay the extra cost especial since you were giving 3 options. Remember to be kind and not to get emotional when talking to them, you want them to build your house and treat you with the same kindness. Something I need to remember too! Good luck and I hope this is the only bad thing to happen! Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 12Mar 21, 2014 8:38 am Yeah, sorry to chime in here, but if $1400 is the worst of it, you're getting off lightly!! Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 13Mar 21, 2014 9:57 am Wow, I can't believe that some of you would pay this. Its no wonder builders try to get away with all sorts of nonsense... cos they can! Always remember... you are paying the builder, that makes you the Client and they should keep you happy... they aren't doing you a favour by building your house. Of course you must always remain professional and polite. It is certainly not unreasonable to expect a professional builder to know what your shire requires for your house, they should know these things, they are the ones after all who are building your home and you are paying them big money to know these things. It certainly isn't your job to go out and find it out and then to inform the builder. (Yes you should know so you can see when something is wrong but it is there job to be informing you). Personally I wouldn't pay the money... its is there mistake offerring you an option that wasn't viable. My build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=68002 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 14Mar 21, 2014 10:06 am Burnsfirsttime Always remember... you are paying the builder, that makes you the Client and they should keep you happy... they aren't doing you a favour by building your house. You think so? Many builders would disagree with that statement! 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 15Mar 21, 2014 10:57 am Sorry but I think it is a little harsh, 3 options were given and the amount we are speaking of does not seem to be out of whack. Remember you are still getting a better product. You are correct that a professional builder should know what is required for your house. Please provide insight to demonstrate where they have erred with respect to your house. You are talking about a cross-over and I think getting worked up does not serve any purpose. If you no longer think that the builder represents good value then you need to think what your next steps are. There are always pluses and minuses with costs and hopefully you pick up that amount somewhere else. When reviewing the costing of my house I found some glaring errors in costs which were quickly rectified. Some of the costs were definitely more but when you weigh in all the hassle and headache of doing it yourself it actually does not seem that bad. At the end of the day the builder, although professional, is still a business. In this case it is unfortunate that the builder offered you an option that is not viable. They should keep the client happy and I suspect they would focus on delivering the core product of a house. The big money you are paying is for the house and the amount you are querying is more than likely less that 0.5% of the total build price. Save your anger, I am sure there will be other avenues to vent. I would ask if they can do the cross over at cost and before I would ask I would get a couple of quotes for the job so that you know what "cost" is roughly. Maybe they will eat the amount but I would not lose sleep if they don't. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 16Mar 21, 2014 2:57 pm Thanks Burnsfirsttime, I appriciate that you sympathise with my situation. First of all, I might sound ranty and angry on this forum (Coz' I am) - but I am NEVER, EVER rude to the staff, and throughout all communications I have been polite and professional. You catch more flies with Honey than sh*t, everyone knows that. I think its really shocking how many of you would be prepared to roll over and cough up due to it "not being that bad in the grand scheme of things" - It doesnt matter about the amount, why should I pay it? If I had called them and decided to change my mind about the crossover, I would have had to pay $500 variation fee. Do you think they will let me take off $1400 worth of pre-start items? Course not! WHY should they be allowed to move goalposts at any stage? Why bother signing at all if they can just turn around and say "Actually...." I understand some things come up, its not always straightforward when building, but THEY should have known the requirements for the shire, and THEY shouldnt offer me the option if it goes against council requirements. I dont want to turn this thread into a bit arguement. I asked for advice but what I think I was looking for was clarification that I wasnt wrong in fighting this. Frankly, the comebacks on here have further justified my choice. I am expecting a call from the manager today and I will come back and let you all know how I went on. Maybe if I am successful it will make some of you think twice about what your willing to take from a professional builder. (And sorry, to whoever said its not the builders job to know all the regulations, what the hell are you on about?!! You might aswell go to bunnings and build a house yourself with mud and hay.) Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 17Mar 21, 2014 3:15 pm The crossover is not part of the build per se. While we all expect the builder to know all the rules and regs there are a large amount to cover and that specialization comes at a cost. Some research goes a long way. Is the 1400 to go to limestone base unreasonably more than sand?? If it is then it is worth fighting. If it is market then what you are asking for is something for free because of a slip up. Very keen to see the outcome and truly hope it goes your favour. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 18Mar 21, 2014 3:25 pm AussieMark With all due respect, I do not think it is relevant that you are a first home builder. You have a vested interest in knowing what is going on and what the rules are for the shire that you will build in. While building companies build lots of homes it is not reasonable to think that they would know every single local code and r-code for every block. I agree. Did you not look at the building covenants/guidelines for your counil before you started to build? If you'd locked in roof tiles then found out your council only allows colorbond, would you be mad at the builder then too? Its not the builders fault at all, they deal with so many different regulations it would be impossible to just know them all off the tops of their heads. Thats why the plans get submitted so any errors can be highlighted before the build starts and not once its done. I imagine it would cost you a lot more if they went ahead with it and then you had to pull it up/re-lay the area before getting your occupancy certificate. - MrsT Brought first house in 2008. Renovated...a LOT. Built in 2013. Our thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67954 Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 19Mar 21, 2014 3:41 pm The issue is with your land in your chosen council. As others point out, the builder should not have to foot the bill for something that is a requirement of your land/council. It's not like there is another builder in Perth who won't have to comply with the same standard and incur the same costs. Other than hoping your builder gives in and absorbs the cost, your other option would be to cancel you're building contract and sell the land, because the council is the one who requires the limestone base. Re: SO Angry- Advice please. 20Mar 21, 2014 3:57 pm When you selected the second option, did the plan state that the crossover was to the builders specifications, or to the council's specifications? That one word makes a big difference. Some councils will allow this to go through, provided the size and shape of the crossover meets their requirements. The other thing is, the extra cost to upgrade to council specs is probably less than the rebate that the council would be providing to you. Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. If you just do a 400x200 footing it will fail in time. At 17m long you need it… 1 17466 A question. Im in Queensland and building a new home. We managed to reach practical completion 6 weeks ago but we haven't heard any date for handover yet. Who should we… 0 5806 I was being kind to the builder. With the amount charged for the upgrade the builder is probably charging closer to 100% margin. There are a few variables as I… 5 14307 |