Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Mar 06, 2014 9:31 pm Here is some helpful advice from someone who has worked for years as building rep. I have worked in multiple markets and have hundreds of clients who I have helped get into their home. I won't reveal who I work for currently, who I have worked for, nor will I offer any opinions on any specific builders. This is general advice only. 1. Get some independent advice This is mainly for the first home buyers out there who are looking for house and land packages: speak to your bank or a licensed broker before talking to the builder. Most first home buyer builders use their own finance in one way or another but it's up to you to get independent advice and work out your budget for yourself. The reason you should do this is builders have this way of making things seem very shiny on the outside when you should look closely - but can't because you're distracted by the new home. If your broker gives you a budget to stick to (a purchase price, not a borrow amount--if you don't know the difference, ask your broker), then make sure you stick to it. Then you can go to the builder and say, "my broker has given me a budget of $450k, and I want a 3x2 in <whatever suburb>, have you got anything available that might suit?" They may have something in a neighbouring suburb or at a different price, but they should provide some options which you can compare with other builders. 2. Know what you want We don't expect you to know everything, or even most of the things surrounding building a new home, but you must know the basics before sending an email to the builder or going to the display home. Do you want 3 or 4 bedrooms? There's a difference. Yes, one builder might have a better plan that has a 4 bed that's the same price of a 3 bed by another builder, but you should know what you actually want. When I ask you, "how many bedrooms/bathrooms are you looking for?" it should be the easiest question in the world to answer. When I hear "I'm not sure" I quickly end the conversation and move on to the next person. If this is you, you obviously haven't decided what you want yet and I have to budget my time accordingly with clients who at least know the basics of what they want out of their new home. 3. Understand how reps are paid Most of us aren't paid a base wage. We don't get paid holidays, we don't get a company car or our fuel paid for. We are relying on selling you a home in order to put food on the table. We won't see a commission until your slab goes down, which means from the time you sign and pay a deposit, we're going to wait 4-6 months before we're paid. Yes, it is our choice to work in this industry, but you must understand that if you're "months away" from a decision, you're not going to get our undivided attention. By all means, take a card and call us when you're closer, but asking us for sketches and coatings when you've told us that you're months away from making a decision? Not going to happen I'm afraid. 4. Read EVERYTHING This is related to point 3. Due to how long it takes for us to get paid our first commission cheque, it's reasonable to expect most reps don't make it. In fact, only about 15% make it past their first year. This is why you have to read absolutely everything before you sign something. I always tell clients who are looking at a competitor, "if it's not written down, you're not getting it." Let's say the rep told you Soakwells were included in your site works, but there is just an allowance for site works, with no detail mentioning $X for Soakwells, $Y for run ins, $Z for hard digging, etc. and you get an unexpected bill for Soakwells? If your rep has left the company by the time that bill arrives, you're just going to have to pay it or start the process from scratch, and lose your deposit in the process. Get everything in writing. If your rep tells you stone is included in the bathrooms and it doesn't mention it on the specification you're signing, then it must be written on the agreement. Don't accept any excuses, get it written down. Accept that there are some dishonest people in the world and read the facts because if ever an argument occurs with your builder, they will refer to what you've signed, as should you, not what an ex-employee said. 5. Know what you want in your specification I ask all of my clients what their "must haves" are and what their "nice to haves" are. Meaning, there are certain things you'll want that you're not prepared to negotiate on and everyone is different here. For some people it's high ceilings, for some it's overhead cupboards, but you have to make it clear to your rep. That's what your budget should be based on: getting those must haves (as well as the required bedrooms, and the rest of course). If a builder happens to offer more for the same price as the next guy? Bonus, that should help you decide who to build with. 6. Price per square metre The easiest way to find out who is giving you the best value is to work out the price per square metre. When you're doing your initial research, you'll ask builders for some plans and prices. Take a standard plan, the spec it comes with and the price; divide it by the total square metres including garage, alfresco, porch, etc. and you'll quickly find out who the best value builders are. You should read the spec and pay close attention to it. One builder might be slightly more expensive, but their spec may be much higher. It's up to you to weigh up those options. But let me tell you, I've seen serious price differences per square metre from builders in the same market that vary by as much as $250 per square metre. You should be able to rule out a few just with that quick exercise. 7. Go see something under construction It's a point of pride that I work for a builder where I'm able to show off clients homes that are under construction. This hasn't always been the case unfortunately because the quality just wasn't something you wanted to show a potential client. If a rep makes an excuse for why they can't show you a clients home under construction: STAY AWAY! 8. Siteworks is siteworks I'm often asked why my siteworks quotes are higher than the next builder: because I allow for everything. I give my clients a price for everything I allow for. If there's a chance we might need a retaining wall inspection? I'll allow for it. I'll allow for cross overs, Soakwells and all the hidden things the next guy won't. Why? Because I don't want to have to explain why your site works bill has gone up thousands because I didn't allow for something. Let's be clear: your block will require the same amount of site works regardless of who your builder is. Sure, the price might change a bit, but it will change hundreds of dollars, not thousands. If one builder says $10,000 and the other says $15,000, you need to get them both to write down how they're coming up with those figures. Every rep carries a sales book with them telling them what they need to allow for certain site related expenses. I'm happy to show clients that my book says I need to allow $4000 for Soakwells and how it corresponds with the quote I've given them. Again, refer back to my point about how it must be in writing. 9. Ignore the bagging out. I currently work for a builder who is doing very well. Why? Because we offer a better product at a better price. What has that resulted in? Every other builder bagging us out. Not that I care, mind you, but some clients can feel disillusioned by it. Go with your gut, refer to internet reviews and look at their homes under construction coupled with their value. If a builder spends too much time talking about the competition, it might be because they haven't got anything positive to offer themselves. Remember, every time someone like me wins a clients business instead of another builder,the other rep takes it personally because I just took food off their table. If a rep is confident about their product, it will show. If they're bagging another builder out, it's because they've lost a lot of business to them. Ok, I've been writing this for a while and I'm sure there's more, but that's a start. If you follow those tips (as long as they are) it will save you time, money and heart ache. I welcome any feedback and will try my best to respond to any questions. Please note that I won't respond to any questions about particular builders. So please don't ask whether I feel a certain way about one builder or another. Happy to answer any general questions you might have though. Working as a building rep in WA. All advice will be general and I won't give any opinions on specific builders. The name is fake and I won't say who I work for. Re: Advice from a building rep 2Mar 07, 2014 7:25 am Some great advice The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Advice from a building rep 5Mar 07, 2014 10:21 am Always good to get an insiders insight. Good on you for taking the time to spell it out in a logical and informative way. I'm sure one of the mods will turn this into a "sticky" at the top of the "Building a New House " dept. and should be compulsive viewing for anyone going down this path. Stewie Re: Advice from a building rep 6Mar 07, 2014 10:32 am Thumbs up. That was an interesting read. Ta. Saving money on quality stuff done right firstime Our Build Thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=66810&p=1094349#p1094349 Re: Advice from a building rep 7Mar 07, 2014 12:35 pm Interesting and appreciated, though dare I say it would make me quite intimidated as a first timer trying to go through this process again, taking all your advice into account so that you would continue to converse with me. Fortunately our building rep was patient and tolerant of our inexperience. http://www.housebythewater.wordpress.com From blank block to new home in Mandurah, Western Australia. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65564 Re: Advice from a building rep 8Mar 07, 2014 2:06 pm Our building rep gave us all the time in the world when we were many months away and hadn't made decisions. Took us to previous clients homes to point out features. That's what I would expect! We also met the rep only in the offices where he had all the time for us. I like the rest of the comments and advice but a rep should be motivated by customer satisfaction and assisting people who are a bit uncertain and a long way from building, not just commissions. This is only my observation but my builder appears to have salaried staff who also do.shifts in the display homes and I'm sure they get commission also. I don't think it's ethical for companies to pay reps commission only as the service becomes skewed toward those who are ready to buy. It's a long process and a huge financial investment and you should get reps happy to assist you in researching and making decisions. Re: Advice from a building rep 9Mar 07, 2014 4:46 pm Coming from an ex-builders perspective and for the last twelve years as a building designer I think there are two sides to the story. On one hand you have a lot of people who don't know what they want, how much they want to spend, haven't approached any bank about finance and have not done much research into the whole building process etc. These people are basically tyre kickers and you could spend a lot of time with them and still not get anywhere. Some of them just want to suck your brains dry for ideas and already have their brother/father/cousin lined up to do the work anyway ( building or drawing ). On the other hand you have people who have done all of the above and are enthusiastic to move forward. These people are easy to help. Having suffered from lots of the former and despite holding their hands sometimes you just have to say no, get back to me when you are more organised. These days I give people half an hour onsite during which time I can give them a ballpark figure of how much to draw the plans etc and how much it will cost to build. I can usually work out just by peoples personalities and the way they speak whether they are genuine prospective clients or not and act accordingly. Once they decide to proceed with me then I can show them comparable plans houses, ideas etc and really start to help them. I think for myself, Tom and lots of others in this industry this would be a pretty common scenario. Stewie Re: Advice from a building rep 11Mar 07, 2014 10:07 pm Stewie that was my experience. Obviously yes there are time wasters. I guess compared to them my husband and I reasonably knew what we wanted but we took a while deciding. What you've described sounds like my experience and it sounds like a good deal for your clients. I still reckon how sales staff are paid is not my problem and if I want to know reasonably the cost of different things that should be offered wi th he a smile. After our builder knew we were committed I'd ask how much something would be and he'd have comparison quotes the next day for every conceivable thing like different baths to exteriors etc. That was still 18 months ago and we're just getting started now due to council and heritage overlays etc. I sincerely hope he wasn't waiting that long for a commission but I doubt it. They're a fairly small custom builder. Re: Advice from a building rep 12Mar 08, 2014 12:53 am Hi all I should clarify that I'm talking about project builders, as opposed to smaller private builders. I understand the service that is provided by smaller, private builders goes beyond that of more volume-oriented project builders. Now, there was a reply above mentioning that they took a while to decide (sorry, didn't grab your username before replying here - I'm new, forgive me) but please, everybody note; you get what you pay for. If a rep had the patience to spend months showing you through houses, meeting at the office multiple times, etc. I'm going to guess it wasn't exactly a budget build? The reality is, if you're paying for it, you'll get the service. If I worked for a top end builder I know that it would take me 6 months to sign one client, but the commission would be huge. Most people building though? We work month-to-month. Yes, I have clients that are further away, but I'm not having an appointment with them once a week, unless they give me a reason to. I've encountered all kinds of clients in multiple markets: When I did first home buyers? I loved that they knew nothing; it meant that I could control them and put them into whatever package I wanted. Yes, it's bad, but it happens constantly. When I was working working with second home buyers I could use certain lines to get them on to a plan that was closer to a standard model as opposed to drawing something from scratch. Multiple time builders? .... Everyone can be manipulated if they don't know what they want or understand how it works. I knew when I wrote this that there would be a couple of people who would disagree, but those people would agree that they weren't exactly looking for a $350k house and land package. It's the ones who are looking for those packages that need protection and that's my intention: to give back. Working as a building rep in WA. All advice will be general and I won't give any opinions on specific builders. The name is fake and I won't say who I work for. Re: Advice from a building rep 13Mar 08, 2014 2:22 am Tomxavier that is correct. You get what you pay for. Yes, I agree that at our stage in life we weren't looking in the same market as first home buyers. It is all good advice for people who are in that stage. In my brief dealings with such builders I was surprised at the staff turnover. Friends of mine have one SS one week and another the next. Sales is all about 'guiding' people in certain ways too and everyone must surely know that. Very sound advice about doing the budget first. I wonder how some first home buyers can afford the places they build? Would be an interesting job yours me thinks. Re: Advice from a building rep 14Mar 08, 2014 9:13 am Out of curiosity, is the rep at the mercy of the actual company he is employed by? We went through a very tedious and very long tender process and because our rep kept changing things (usually making them more expensive or convoluted as it progressed) we were about to close the door and walk away (losing a substantial amount of money). An email to the people above him had it all sorted out within a few days, we were actually surprised at the willingness not to lose us as customers. To this day I'm still unsure why he was playing hardball to the point that he almost lost the contract. Surely as volume builders, getting a customer (even if the margins may be reduced somewhat) is better than not getting a customer at all? Re: Advice from a building rep 15Mar 08, 2014 10:11 am This is an interesting thread. I think you are right that whoever wants to build should at least do some homework first. Most who do there homework usually ends up with a much happier ride for their house building exercise. At least they know what is ahead of them and they know how to deal with different people at different stages. Like you say, if they don't even know about their budget or what they want, it is really a waste of time and would not end up anywhere. It's glad to know that there are honest reps out there. Personally I have met ones that promise you the world with a fraction of price with everything hidden under their hood. Re: Advice from a building rep 16Mar 08, 2014 10:32 am Re the "bagging" angle. We spoke to a few and almost went with one. But he never stopped bagging the opposition. It really turned us off. I think he felt he was convincing us to go with him - but it was the opposite affect. Nothing they did was right - everything he did was right. In the end we politely just went our own way. We met him after making the decision - and, as is our way - letting the others know. And he started up again Literally telling us we'd be sorry and how we'd wish we'd gone with him. Then began to bag the opposition again. We've never been so glad we didn't go with him. We've since seen a few of his places - and they are not as good as we got. He made us a bet we'd be sorry - real dollars !!! I asked for the money (half in jest) and he made some excuse and left ... But - I hate people who just criticise the others. Praise your own - say why its best - but ignore the others. Re: Advice from a building rep 17Mar 08, 2014 11:00 am To be honest when looking at my builder I saw a lot of negative reviews. These were from 5 years back and I realised that the interweb it mostly negative. This builder is flexible to my needs and never really mention their competitors. I also realise that what I want is going to cost a certain amount. Being an accountant I also know that if you squeeze the hell out if something costs will be saved elsewhere. I have also let them know that by nature I am very detailed and I understand that things happen and errors are made. It's the rectification and remedy that matters to me. I know there's a building time limit and I want quality to be chosen over getting it to me on time. Of course this has to be reasonable. This is the biggest investment I have made and it is stressful. I have now been in the process 3 years and we are about to break ground soon. Probably a little different to most as I have done most if the planning and selections via email. The hardest part was by far the colours. Re: Advice from a building rep 18Mar 08, 2014 11:34 am AussieMark To be honest when looking at my builder I saw a lot of negative reviews. These were from 5 years back and I realised that the interweb it mostly negative. This builder is flexible to my needs and never really mention their competitors. I also realise that what I want is going to cost a certain amount. Being an accountant I also know that if you squeeze the hell out if something costs will be saved elsewhere. I have also let them know that by nature I am very detailed and I understand that things happen and errors are made. It's the rectification and remedy that matters to me. I know there's a building time limit and I want quality to be chosen over getting it to me on time. Of course this has to be reasonable. This is the biggest investment I have made and it is stressful. I have now been in the process 3 years and we are about to break ground soon. Probably a little different to most as I have done most if the planning and selections via email. The hardest part was by far the colours. Very true AM. The net can be negative. Often people only comment when they want to complain. I've always tried to give both positive and negative feedback. Amazing what it may achieve. Re: Advice from a building rep 19Mar 08, 2014 9:52 pm Marmalade Out of curiosity, is the rep at the mercy of the actual company he is employed by? We went through a very tedious and very long tender process and because our rep kept changing things (usually making them more expensive or convoluted as it progressed) we were about to close the door and walk away (losing a substantial amount of money). An email to the people above him had it all sorted out within a few days, we were actually surprised at the willingness not to lose us as customers. To this day I'm still unsure why he was playing hardball to the point that he almost lost the contract. Surely as volume builders, getting a customer (even if the margins may be reduced somewhat) is better than not getting a customer at all? To a degree, yes, the rep is at the mercy of the company they work for. I had a client once who paid their deposit but was made redundant 2 weeks later. They asked for their deposit back (naturally) and management said no. They had signed an agreement saying the deposit was non-refundable. I was on the clients side. It would have been better to hand the money back so that they would come back when they got working again. Instead I had to tell the client they couldn't have it and it was company policy. I had to take all their abuse and I wasn't even paid to do it. Then the client made a complaint higher up the chain and got the money back anyway. Made me look like a moron and needless to say that client, nor their friends would ever build with my ex-employer. But, there are just reps out there who are no good at their jobs. They cost things incorrectly, don't draw things correctly and should be selling used cars, not building new homes. But there are also clients who seriously need babysitters. In respect to your situation I'm guessing that you signed for a house, and he hadn't checked that the house had certain things in it that met the requirements of the developer or council or site works. His fault, and he came back to you looking for money to which you didn't want to lose. What would have happened behind closed doors? If you didn't pay for it, it came out of the reps commission. The builder isn't going to lose your business, they just took the commission off the rep to pay for your changes. He was willing to lose you as a client because he wasn't going to make any money from the sale, but the builder still was. Working as a building rep in WA. All advice will be general and I won't give any opinions on specific builders. The name is fake and I won't say who I work for. Re: Advice from a building rep 20Mar 08, 2014 10:08 pm Saint Mike Re the "bagging" angle. We spoke to a few and almost went with one. But he never stopped bagging the opposition. It really turned us off. I think he felt he was convincing us to go with him - but it was the opposite affect. Nothing they did was right - everything he did was right. In the end we politely just went our own way. We met him after making the decision - and, as is our way - letting the others know. And he started up again Literally telling us we'd be sorry and how we'd wish we'd gone with him. Then began to bag the opposition again. We've never been so glad we didn't go with him. We've since seen a few of his places - and they are not as good as we got. He made us a bet we'd be sorry - real dollars !!! I asked for the money (half in jest) and he made some excuse and left ... But - I hate people who just criticise the others. Praise your own - say why its best - but ignore the others. There are ways to bring down a competitor without nasty comments. One of the things I do with my clients is show them a tracking report, which details how fast clients administration is progressing. That way they can see for certain that we are getting people from sign up to site in 4-5 months. I then suggest that they should ask to see the tracking report of every rep they're dealing with to make sure their admin is as fast, because every extra week that goes by costs the client money. There is a certain builder who has taken as long as 5 months just to get contracts and working drawings out to clients. I know this because one of their reps is now working with us and he couldn't get paid because the builders admin was terrible. I also insist that they see a home under construction and should ask the competition to do the same. Basically, I'm asking the client to find the proof themselves as to why they shouldn't build with the competition. I'm showing them the corners where the dirty secrets are hiding and how to get the process swinging in their favour. It's still technically bagging, but it's a more professional approach to it. I highlight how well we're doing, and ask them to go see how bad the other guys are doing. Works every time. I had a rep in a display village I used to work in tell people that I was a liar who would keep all the hidden costs tucked away which is how I kept the prices so low. He was telling people he knew me for years, yet he'd never met me. On my day off I went into his display dressed as a potential buyer and said I had been dealing with, well, me. I had my phone on record and stood there for five minutes while he went into excruciating detail as to how I'm personally a bad guy and how the company I worked for was the dodgiest builder in Perth. I then told him who I was and that I'd recorded the whole thing. Told him it would be sent to his manager and he'd likely get fired. Sure enough, he begged me not to. I told him he'd probably cost me at least $20k in lost sales, so no, his begging wasn't going to save him. I sent the recording to his boss and he was fired the following day. I was also offered a sum of money to ensure I didn't tell my higher ups (who would have used the building company) which I refused. Instead I asked them to ensure he couldn't get a job as a building rep at any company ever again. 2 years on, he's nowhere to be found. Bagging doesn't pay. Working as a building rep in WA. All advice will be general and I won't give any opinions on specific builders. The name is fake and I won't say who I work for. Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. If you just do a 400x200 footing it will fail in time. At 17m long you need it… 1 3382 Thank you so much for the effort. We will use it to talk with builder. We also had idea of building duplex instead and seeking suggest ions. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=106744 11 10740 Hi All, I engaged a tradie to install concrete retaining wall 600-800mm high over 32 meters in Victoria. Sleepers are 200*75*2000 mm installed over 17 steel posts. I… 0 3724 |