Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 21Jan 29, 2014 12:34 am Got a letter in the mail today from the builder - a request to sign a blank 'Development Application' form.
Are we to Authorise the submission of a Plan that we haven't even seen... http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac19 ... 9cba25.jpg Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 22Jan 29, 2014 7:29 am Whilst we signed the blank Development Application, I had seen a few versions of the plans by that stage. Also, we had to sign every page on the preliminary plan (which I assume you would also have to do) before anything was sent anywhere. Saying all that, I can see that given your situation, it would be quite disconcerting. Our Family Home Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69221 Our Investment Build Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69588 Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 23Jan 30, 2014 8:35 pm On an Up Note today - we had a call from the Sales Manager assuring us that our Plans are being prepared and still under the 10 weeks allocated for the preparation of Contracts as stated in the Welcome letter. Also that the blank form was sent out by accident in haste, while trying to get our paperwork moving along. Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 24Jan 31, 2014 9:19 am Glad to hear you got it sorted ![]() Our Family Home Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69221 Our Investment Build Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69588 Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 25Jan 31, 2014 6:20 pm Quick question, are any of you guys building with BTH concerned about ; 1. resale value in relation to the top floor not having a slab or double brick 2. the heat (especially in perth) that the top part of the house will have as thermally it won't be as efficient as brick? (unless you running aircon 24/7) just wanted to hear feedback. Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 27Jan 31, 2014 7:00 pm Hi Michael. I think you may have been mislead. The upper storey does have a slab, 86mm re-inforced concrete. And the R value for rendered EPS system is a fair bit higher than double brick cavity (R value 2.5 - 3 compared with R0.5 for cavity double clay brick). The EPS system is become very popular in Northern Europe where they know a thing or 2 about insulation. Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes 28Feb 01, 2014 9:20 am If I remember correctly, 101 Residential doesn't have the concrete slab upstairs. If you are comparing Ben Trager and 101, potentially the confusion arose there. Also, I'm a Perth born and bred girl so I know that double bricks is etched into my psyche as the "only way to build". Somewhere in my teenage years it occurred to me that most of the homes throughout the world weren't built like that. Even over East it is predominantly brick veneer or the 'Queenslander' style (which is, of course, different from the footings up). Plenty of those places have the same heat waves we have. And I use the air con the same amount whether West or East. Given the rating values that oncewerefurriers kindly provided ( and the reading I completed when faced with this same question myself), I know that the reality isn't backing up the building method that was ingrained in me as a child. Not sure if that helps... just wanted to relate similar feelings I had before putting these builders on my short-list. Our Family Home Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69221 Our Investment Build Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69588 Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes 29Feb 01, 2014 6:33 pm engs, you're correct 101 don't use a concrete slab but their pod system is different to the BT approach. 101's pods are pre assembled, in sections, and lifted into position, Ben Trager lays a concrete slab and then builds a frame onto the slab, which is then clad. Double brick with cavity is still very popular in the UK and other places in the world but is becoming less so. Structurally, it is still a viable construction method and, in WA at least, is an economical way to build because it comes down to economies of scale. Like eng said "It's the only way to build" so most people do it. This means there are 'double-brick' builders, more brickies, more brick suppliers. Where I grew up (Northern England) most of the older houses were constructed from single brick (although twice as thick) sandstone. Lots of local sandstone quarries and stonemasons but they were massively inefficient and newer builds used the far more efficient double brick construction. New, more efficient, construction techniques come along and replace the older ones over time. If they didn't, we'd still be using Wattle and Daub. Not saying that rendered EPS is a perfect construction method. I can't imagine it would stand up well against a good sized impact, a bump from a car for example but it's a pretty good material for second storeys. Ps Sorry for hijacking your thread rj40 Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 30Feb 05, 2014 3:36 pm For the 101 Resi upstairs - here is what it looks like going on for a non-standard upstairs design (from our build). In response to: ![]() 1. resale value in relation to the top floor not having a slab or double brick I'll worry about that in 30 years time - I'm sure building technology would have changed by then. My compromise to resale value was including a bathtub. ![]() 2. the heat (especially in perth) that the top part of the house will have as thermally it won't be as efficient as brick? (unless you running aircon 24/7) The thermal efficiency of brick isn't a high bar to reach. The design of the house is going to have just as much impact on keeping things cool as well. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 31Feb 08, 2014 9:17 pm Hi All, There will be no further updates to this build. The contract was verbally terminated by the builder and our deposit refunded. The reason was to the effect of - they felt that they no longer had our trust as clients as we had chosen to take our concerns to a public forum (referring to this blog). The deposit was refunded quickly (even though the letter itself was addressed to another couple) & did not state the reason for the refund even though we asked them to put it in writing. Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 32Feb 09, 2014 12:34 am ![]() The reason was to the effect of - they felt that they no longer had our trust as clients as we had chosen to take our concerns to a public forum (referring to this blog). The deposit was refunded quickly (even though the letter itself was addressed to another couple) & did not state the reason for the refund even though we asked them to put it in writing. I signed up just to express my displeasure with this - they were probably unhappy that you posted their blank development application on the forum. No doubt this would have put them off, in knowing that you wouldn't just lie down and take whatever they wanted to throw at you. I think though, it's probably a good thing. You would have hated to get further down the track to be requested to sign blank forms and then be stuck with the builder regardless. I wouldn't be surprised if, via the ombudsman, you were entitled to a reimbursement of the interest payments incurred whilst under the agreement to prepare plans. Certainly sounds like a case the ombudsman would love to hear about. Very, very poor form of any company to simply refuse to deal with a client citing a lack of trust. Effectively, they are mitigating what could be an expensive legal case further down the track when it is revealed you were requested to sign blank forms and those forms were then filled in with details you did not actually agree to by signing. Just on the lawful side of things, here is a section I thought would be relevant from the Home Building Contracts Act 1991 ![]() Section 15.1: A builder must not — (a) in connection with the formation or execution of a contract or negotiations to vary a contract after execution, or the circumstances in which the contract or variation of contract is entered into, engage in conduct that is unconscionable, harsh or oppressive I personally found the request to sign a completely blank form to be fitting of the word unconscionable and I think you'd find the court of law does not think requests to sign blank forms are conscionable either. Certainly signing blank contracts is a massive no-no, what's different about legal application forms to council? Consumers have a right to know what their signature will be attributed to before providing it. In our building process, we were required to sign/initial all of the final plans before they were sent to council. We did not sign any 'development application form', I am relatively sure those were signed/sent by the relevant staff at the building company. It would appear you were being asked to sign a development application with no information attached to it whatsoever before you would be given the plans? Harsh at best. Probably best that you didn't continue with them. ![]() Here's hoping that your next builder gets it done quick and smart for you, so you can get building soon! We know what it's like having a block but nothing to put on it.. so wishing you the best rj40!! Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 33Feb 09, 2014 1:52 pm Thank you enkayz for your Support & information! This heavy handed action has no doubt shocked & stressed us to no end. We understand there is no perfect build experience but it's the way that issues & conflicts are addressed & resolved that matter most. And yes there is no time to lose as we have a clock ticking on an empty block in the meantime....so onward we go with a positive outlook ![]() Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 34Feb 10, 2014 12:15 am Wow. Seems like a drastic reaction. Didn't think you were particularly critical. At least they were quick refunding you. Hope the cheque was in the correct name ![]() Hope you can find another builder quickly and they don't drag their heels with your build. You've now got time to make up. The longer the process drags on, the more money it costs you. Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 35Feb 10, 2014 10:42 pm Hope you have a new blog soon with a new builder ![]() Our Family Home Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69221 Our Investment Build Thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69588 Re: Our Build in Champion Lakes with Ben Trager Homes 36Feb 11, 2014 10:40 am ![]() "............no time to lose as we have a clock ticking on an empty block in the meantime....so onward we go with a positive outlook ![]() All the best. Try and keep that positive frame of mind. Builder:Aveling, Champion Lakes Deposit:21/06/13 Contracts:1/08 P/start:3/09 Kirsty F Var/Contract: 5/12 Slab17/3/14, Bricks28/3, Walls30/5,Roof frame18/7,Render14/8,Ceiling15/8,doors lock up 2/9 The shocking aspects are the lack of price transparency and the presence of hidden terms. First, the final tender price is unpredictable, deviating significantly from… 11 32937 I second taking your plans elsewhere. They're yours (unless you ended up in one of those cheaper arrangements where you don't own the rights and the build will be tendered… 2 33695 Thank you so much everyone. This all makes a lot of sense. I guess when you talk to a builder who butters up everything to look very polished, you get to start believing… 7 71167 |