Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 07, 2008 9:41 am Dear all,
Can you please help me.. Currently building a new house in Tarneit, VIC. My builder has recommended that I take up a rock removal contigency cost priced at $5000. This is to cover the removal of any rocks that may be found underground. I thought...this is a big sum for removing rocks. But builders are convincing me they have had clients with rocks that needs to be removed from their land worth over $20k and urged me to take up this insurance. I will not be reimbured the money if there is less that $5k worth of rocks on land. If there is more than $5k worth of rocks in my area, then i will not be charged more. I have consulted the constructors working on subdividing the land and said that they have not found any rocks in the area. Another person building in the front of my estate also said she has not found major rocks. So what do you think? Safe on $5k and run the risk of having to pay up to $20K or pay up the $5k and have piece of mind. I have to mention to that this is an optional cost. Please help! Re: Rock removal contigency cost 2May 07, 2008 10:15 am It's kind of an expensive insurence policy..
If the contractors doing the subdivision havent found anything you should be pretty safe - is your block close to the natural "lie" of the land - or have their been significant earthworks done in creating the estate? Built Porter Davis "Dromana" 2007. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 3May 07, 2008 10:17 am I don't think the builder (or his insurer) will be stupid enough to charge you $5k for something that's going to cost them more , so they would've ascertained that the probability of your rock removal cost (if any) exceeding $5k is quite slim ... otherwise they wouldn't offer you this insurance.
If the contractors and neighbours say they have't found rocks, then probably there aren't any. So I'd take my chances with the rocks, rather than pay the $5k. BTW what did your soil test/ site survey say? Re: Rock removal contigency cost 6May 07, 2008 11:05 am Is this even legal or enforceable? I would suggest that if they had to excavate $20k of rock they would find a why of charging you, insurance policy or not.
At the very least it's a misrepresentation of "contingency" which is a set percentage of the construction contract amount budgeted for unforeseen emergencies or design shortfalls identified after a construction project commences. The contractor has contingencies....they should not be passed on to you. It should be a provisional amount in which any savings are passed back to you and actual overruns are incurred by you. There's some very good advice in the above: - talk to your direct neighbours if you can and ask whether they hit rock and how much (ground conditions can change a fair bit over distance) - and as stated I don't think the builders would take the risk of only asking for $5k for a potentially $20k job if there is low risk. Another suggestion is to cruise around the estate and see how much rock is actually being found, you can learn a great deal about general ground conditions if you find where they are excavating the sewer, you might just have to get you boots muddy...... A $20k rock cost on a single site will stand out like the proverbial, it will be a "big" pile of rocks. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Rock removal contigency cost 7May 07, 2008 11:08 am My area apparently doesn't have any rock and my builder didn't find any. However people down the road in the same estate just spent two weeks with a massive rock breaker in excavating their block, so I guess the moral of the story is you can never be sure. I'm sure their bill was alot more than 5k as well.
Still it seems like easy money for the builder considering most of the time they would just pocket the cash. I know that during the soil test they drill down into the soil at 3 points - is it possible to get them to check for rocks as well? The other question is how much excavation is necessary? If there is only a small cut you'd have to be pretty unlucky. Interesting that some builders make a big point of this whereas others don't worry. PD for example never even mentioned it - the excavation includes whatever is necessary. H***** on the other hand wanted 3k for it just incase. Make me wonder whether it isn't just a form of clever marketing. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 8May 07, 2008 11:10 am Wow..thanks for the speedy reply.
Yes it is a lot of money, isnt it? Money that can be spent on other extras that I want for the house. So I am assuming no other builders has this insurance policy? My builder (Wcrest) said some builder already included it within their base price. Vanderlay: I dont think there has been much excavation done on the land. All they did was to flatten the surface so havent dug deep enough. Duminda: Havent done the soil test as the subdivision not done yet. Should I wait till then? I get your point abt the insurance policy. Perryr: That's what I thought. Contractors working on the subdivision also mentioned that if there are large boulders on the land, just the top bit can be blasted on and the house built on the remaining rock. So dont have to remove the entire boulder. Is this right? That way it wont cost as much as $5k. Karen B: I am in Claremont Park, Stage 20 near the lake. What is your experience building in Manhattan Place. I have had some bad experience with the Vendor's soilicitor and I think both are managed by the same Vendor. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 9May 07, 2008 11:30 am When I bought my block a current neighbour of mine (a tiler) came to me and said I was mad because they are apparently pulling lots of rock out of my estate and he had seen it. I talked to the sales consultant for my builder about that possibility - a lovely older guy who was once a builder and site supervisor and now sells the houses - and he assured me that if rock was encountered, the worst case scenario was an extra $2,000. He said to encounter the kind of costs I had been told about (similar to those you've been quoted) they would have to be digging a foundation big enough and deep enough for a shopping centre to be put on top of it.
Incidentally, they did pull some rock out of my site when they were doing the drains and concrete piers. And more rocks turned up on my block during the build (I think I became the dumping ground - maybe that's why my neighbour saw blocks with heaps of rocks on them) but my builder has never approached me for more money. My contract does state that if rock was found I was to be responsible for the cost of excavating and removing it so I guess the amount they did find was not significant to them. Or maybe none of those rocks actually came from my block I don't know if the type of slab you have has any bearing on the likelihood of hitting rock though, maybe someone with some experience can help. Mine is a waffle pod. ETA: I'm building in Wyndham Vale but my builder's display was in Tarneit. Maybe go around a few different displays and speak to the sales guys there... don't give too much away, pretend you're looking to build, you haven't selected a builder, but you're concerned as you've heard that there's rock in your estate and it could cost you up to $20K to get rid of it if it's on your land. They might be able to tell you whether that kind of figure is likely or ridiculous. Ultimately, the decision on whether to pay this extra money is yours, just try to be as informed as possible. Received keys to my new home on 16/5/08 Re: Rock removal contigency cost 10May 07, 2008 12:34 pm In most cases, your land will be quite similar to your neighbour's. when my builder gave me quote i asked about this. He said that he "knew" the area and pretty sure that there would not be any rocks. He built two houses just beside mine. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 11May 07, 2008 12:34 pm mmm it sounds fishy to me. Why would htey offer to cover anything above $5k? Sounds like a gamble to me, with them knowing full well that the odds are far in their favour. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 12May 07, 2008 1:00 pm Quote: Duminda: Havent done the soil test as the subdivision not done yet. Should I wait till then? I get your point abt the insurance policy. Yep, ... you can change anything until you sign the actual contract, so tell them you'll decide whether to take up the insurance or not AFTER you see the soil test & site survey reports. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 13May 07, 2008 1:20 pm Any thoughts on the builder that I've gone with - Wcrest Homes? They are a Sydney based builder recently established in Melbourne. I've gone with them cos it was a house and land package. Sounded quite reputable.
They are pushy with this rock removal contingency sum. VERY pushy..I told them I will not be taking it up, but they have included it in my quote anyway - I was not happy when I saw that. They have been very helpful otherwise.. Perhaps another money making scheme? I assume the house consultant have been told that he/she has to push this insurance options to potential buyers. Hmmm... Re: Rock removal contigency cost 14May 07, 2008 1:50 pm I'm with Rachelle....what they are proposing sounds ***....can't comment on the builder. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Rock removal contigency cost 15May 08, 2008 8:29 am Hmm...sounds fishy. Ok got it..I think I might wait for the soil test report first before making my decision. Not in a hurry to build anyway. Also, is it common that I have to sign the building tender before the my land title is out? Wouldnt that mean I'm signing to build on a land that isnt mine yet?? Confused.. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 16May 08, 2008 9:58 am Quote: is it common that I have to sign the building tender before the my land title is out? Wouldnt that mean I'm signing to build on a land that isnt mine yet?? Confused.. In a practical sense yes, but technically no.,. signing the tender means you are merely agreeing with the builder on what goes into the house and how much it would cost. It is NOT a contract to build. Having said that, many builders (ours included) make it harder for you to change things once you sign the tender (extra fees, delays etc.), so it would be a good idea not to sign it until all the specs, prices etc. are finalized. In your case it's probably too early Re: Rock removal contigency cost 17May 08, 2008 10:07 am Another problem. Duminda. My builder presented me with the first tender, then of course I asked them to change a couple of things that I wanted for the house...They say ok, we will make those changes but is it ok that we go straight to contracts. Erm...I thought, what happens if those changes are not according to what I specified, then I have to pay extra $1k to make changes, those that I already told them I wanted and they havent done anyway. So you reckon its better that I ask them to revise the tender again and again up to my satisfaction and making sure everything is ok before proceeding straight to contracts?? I know this will *** them off BAD and I hate ******* ppl off.Still I want the best for the money I put in.. Re: Rock removal contigency cost 18May 08, 2008 10:33 am acenbone So you reckon its better that I ask them to revise the tender again and again up to my satisfaction and making sure everything is ok before proceeding straight to contracts?? I know this will **** them off BAD and I hate ******* ppl off.Still I want the best for the money I put in.. IMO absolutely correct, once you sign the contract, any change is a variation and you will be hit with additional dollars. We went through four rounds of tendering before we accepted the final "quote" as the basis for the contract. You should not be pressured into signing contracts until you are happy for the basis of the contract. If you make variations later on that's your call. it will **ss the salesman off because he wants the sale and move it on to the "contracts department". Would you sign a bill of sale for a new car without knowing how much the optional extras are...remember this is probably the biggest purchase of your life... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Rock removal contigency cost 19May 08, 2008 10:42 am acenbone,
With regard to your contract, I would carefully think about all the changes you would like (take your time). I would then write to the builder once with all the changes. If the builder "forgets" something, bring it to their attention. This is not another change - just a correction to their error. Only sign the contract (or anything) when you are totally happy. Do not be rushed. With regard to the rock removal, this is a favourite of mine. When you buy a house, it's possible to get everything worked out to the cent before you sign - except for rock removal. I'm not worried if there is rock and it needs to be removed as long as it's done at a competative price. Chances are the building company will charge more than a competative rate to increase their profits (they seem to like maximising profits for some reason). I would get the cost of potential rock removal put into my contract and I would check that it was a reasonable price. Once you sign the contract your ability to negotiate is gone - you are at the mercy of the builder (not a great place to be!). Ideally, I would also put in the contract that I have the option of getting someone else to do the job if it can be done more cheaply. This last one builders are not likely to agree to, but you have to ask yourself why. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Rock removal contigency cost 20May 08, 2008 12:22 pm Straight to contract is for people who sign up with the builder after settling the land; the idea is to fast track the paperwork and minimize the interest cost of holding an empty block.
Your land is not even titled, so you've got plenty of time, so tell them you don't want straight to contract. And don't sign the tender unless everything is written the way you specified. Don't accept any verbal confirmations or assurances that they can/ will allow you to change it later ... if it's not in writing it's no good. If they have to change the tender 10 times because of their own omissions/ mistakes, that's their problem, not yours. They're not going to like it, but tough luck; after all you are the customer, and you are paying the bill. And one other thing, when you check the tender make sure you double check the DETAILED DESCRIPTION of each item, not just the heading and the $ amounts ... as they say, the devil is usually in the detail Hi all, I have been looking at land in South Australia, that is on a slope however most of the core excavation is complete, with a flat area to place a house. The agent… 0 1414 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair At a bit of a loss on this one - we're thinking the original owners never removed the protective laminate covers from their kitchen cabinets after installation and in the… 0 6335 Hi, planning on using the attached stone pieces in my bathroom. I want to remove stains and gloss seal. Can I get some advice on best way to remove stains and best… 0 6711 |