Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Sep 04, 2013 2:44 pm Hi all, I have just bought a land about 450 sqm in Perth, WA and will be building a double storey. Will be looking at building a 4x3 (Master with ensuite upstairs & 1 Guest room with ensuite downstairs). I have been reading this forum a little and have realized that most threads are about single storey houses. So my questions are: 1) Are there any specific thread in the forum I can look at for double storeys? 2) What should I be looking out for when building a double storey? 3) Any recommendations for a double storey Builder in Perth? 4) Should I be going through a volume builder or not? Thanks in advance!! Re: Advice required - Double Storey 2Sep 04, 2013 5:30 pm I dont think their is another forum for double story homes ..... Not sure about the other questions sorry Re: Advice required - Double Storey 3Sep 04, 2013 5:33 pm My first bit of advice would be to take what you hear on these forums with a pinch of salt when it comes to opinions on builders - it seems to be fairly individual experience, and can depend on your SS, CL and tradies rather than the builder themselves that can make a difference. Having said that to respond to your questions: 1) Read my thread - link in signature You describe our house spot on although we probably have a larger downstairs footprint than you would want on a 450sqm block. There are a few Ben Trager threads that have the master suite upstairs as well. 2) In what sense? Do you mean above and beyond building a single storey ('things you forget' is a good start for the building process)? 3) Depends on your budget but the four we got PCQ's from were: Lorimer Homes, WB Neaves, Broadway Homes, 101 Residential Others that we saw and really liked were: APG Homes, Don Russell Homes, Novus Homes - but they ended up being out of our budget. Ben Trager we only saw when we were already committed to our process. In-Vogue and Ultimate Homes were others that we saw some potential. And for something different and Federation style - we really liked Peter Stannard Avonlea in the two storey version (single storey version with the colour scheme we liked) - but unfortunately the sales consultants didn't get back to us after I tried to follow up 3-4 times so I gave up. 4) Depends on your budget and your requirements. You would want to be spending $500k+ as a minimum in order to justify using a boutique builder with a completely custom design. Most project builders allow a fair amount of customisation so it comes down to budget and preference. On that front, I'd recommend having a chat to Spadaccini Homes. Feel free to PM me if you want more info about anything - or reply openly in the thread. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Advice required - Double Storey 4Sep 04, 2013 5:36 pm Hi there, I can't point you in the direction of many double story threads, there was one I recall about APG, a couple with Switch Homes, a couple with Lorimer. Just search the names of some two storey builders and you should come up with some to read. Not sure what there is to look out for. There's a few different methods of achieving the the second storey, be it a pod type like 101 Residential or Ben Trager do, framed second storery in lieu of double brick, or traditional double brick. Some of the pods use a different flooring system for the upper level, other methods use a full concrete slab. The type of house you build and the builder you choose largely comes down to budget. Whether you use a project builder may also be influenced by your block of land. If it's a bit of a strange shape or slopes a bit then a custom builder may provide a better result. We're currently having our two storey designed by an architect/designer and trying to massage it down to suit our budget. We've got a 500sqm block in Melville which has a wide frontage but it's only 25m deep, so we have gone this way to get a house that suits the block better. We're hoping to use Bellagio Homes at this stage. Hope this helps a little. Cheers, Duke. Re: Advice required - Double Storey 5Sep 04, 2013 5:46 pm mwccl 1) Are there any specific thread in the forum I can look at for double storeys? Flick through the blogs http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1522and you'll find quite a lot. mwccl 2) What should I be looking out for when building a double storey? Make sure the stairs are wide enough and the landing at the top is big enough to get furniture up there easily. Other than that, it depends on what materials you're building out of. mwccl 4) Should I be going through a volume builder or not? Only if the volume builder has the layout the exactly suits your needs and also the aspect and outlook of your block. As soon as the compromises start then I'd advise to look around for a smaller designer/builder who can really give you what you want and have the house designed to suit you and the block. ----------------------------------------------- http://pab34newdigs.blogspot.com.au/ ----------------------------------------------- Re: Advice required - Double Storey 6Sep 04, 2013 9:07 pm Check out my blog for double story on 470m^2 block. We went with living upstairs as we have a nice outlook. Our block is 12m wide and house is around 7 to 8m wide on average. We wanted a smallish footprint house. My only complaint regarding double story is we had an upstairs toilet and builder put piping through ceiling down an internal wall into slab. Obviously as they didn't want external piping showing on outside of house. But the pipe would have been on a side that nobody sees and would have been much better as far as I'm concered for noise and future work. Apart from that, loving having double story. Re: Advice required - Double Storey 7Sep 04, 2013 10:33 pm Firstly, thank you all as everyone's replies have been really helpful. zaxon My first bit of advice would be to take what you hear on these forums with a pinch of salt when it comes to opinions on builders - it seems to be fairly individual experience, and can depend on your SS, CL and tradies rather than the builder themselves that can make a difference. Having said that to respond to your questions: 1) Read my thread - link in signature You describe our house spot on although we probably have a larger downstairs footprint than you would want on a 450sqm block. There are a few Ben Trager threads that have the master suite upstairs as well. Thanks. Will read them. zaxon 2) In what sense? Do you mean above and beyond building a single storey ('things you forget' is a good start for the building process)? Yup. I do mean things above and beyond building a single storey. I am currently reading the "Things you forget" thread and am making quite a few notes on them. But are there things that might not have been mentioned there that I should keep a look out for when building a double storey? zaxon 3) Depends on your budget but the four we got PCQ's from were: Lorimer Homes, WB Neaves, Broadway Homes, 101 Residential Others that we saw and really liked were: APG Homes, Don Russell Homes, Novus Homes - but they ended up being out of our budget. Ben Trager we only saw when we were already committed to our process. In-Vogue and Ultimate Homes were others that we saw some potential. And for something different and Federation style - we really liked Peter Stannard Avonlea in the two storey version (single storey version with the colour scheme we liked) - but unfortunately the sales consultants didn't get back to us after I tried to follow up 3-4 times so I gave up. Thanks. I will have a look. zaxon 4) Depends on your budget and your requirements. You would want to be spending $500k+ as a minimum in order to justify using a boutique builder with a completely custom design. Most project builders allow a fair amount of customisation so it comes down to budget and preference. On that front, I'd recommend having a chat to Spadaccini Homes. Feel free to PM me if you want more info about anything - or reply openly in the thread. The issue that I have is, we want to maximize our space and want large rooms and kitchen. Most of the volume builders seem to have pretty "standard" sized rooms. From what I have read so far, it would start to cost more once we start increasing the size of every room etc. We are hoping to build a double storey with total living area of around 400sqm including the garage. Our budget is probably around the $500k. The closest thing we have found so far is "The Expressions" by Integrity developments/builders. Have anyone heard of this builder before? The floor plans for this particular design is available at http://www.new homesguide.com.au but for some reason the forum is not allowing me to post the URL. It seems "new homesguide" is a forbidden word. https://www.new homesguide.com.au/builders/integrity-developments/homes/double-storey/the-excel Cheers! Re: Advice required - Double Storey 8Sep 04, 2013 11:29 pm Dukecaddy Hi there, I can't point you in the direction of many double story threads, there was one I recall about APG, a couple with Switch Homes, a couple with Lorimer. Just search the names of some two storey builders and you should come up with some to read. Not sure what there is to look out for. There's a few different methods of achieving the the second storey, be it a pod type like 101 Residential or Ben Trager do, framed second storery in lieu of double brick, or traditional double brick. Some of the pods use a different flooring system for the upper level, other methods use a full concrete slab. The type of house you build and the builder you choose largely comes down to budget. Whether you use a project builder may also be influenced by your block of land. If it's a bit of a strange shape or slopes a bit then a custom builder may provide a better result. We're currently having our two storey designed by an architect/designer and trying to massage it down to suit our budget. We've got a 500sqm block in Melville which has a wide frontage but it's only 25m deep, so we have gone this way to get a house that suits the block better. We're hoping to use Bellagio Homes at this stage. Hope this helps a little. Cheers, Duke. With the different methods for double storey, which method are you using? Is one better than the other? Re: Advice required - Double Storey 9Sep 04, 2013 11:33 pm PAB_34 mwccl 4) Should I be going through a volume builder or not? Only if the volume builder has the layout the exactly suits your needs and also the aspect and outlook of your block. As soon as the compromises start then I'd advise to look around for a smaller designer/builder who can really give you what you want and have the house designed to suit you and the block. How can I tell if a builder is a volume builder or not? Re: Advice required - Double Storey 10Sep 04, 2013 11:40 pm animal Check out my blog for double story on 470m^2 block. We went with living upstairs as we have a nice outlook. Our block is 12m wide and house is around 7 to 8m wide on average. We wanted a smallish footprint house. My only complaint regarding double story is we had an upstairs toilet and builder put piping through ceiling down an internal wall into slab. Obviously as they didn't want external piping showing on outside of house. But the pipe would have been on a side that nobody sees and would have been much better as far as I'm concered for noise and future work. Apart from that, loving having double story. So you prefer having the pipe outside and exposed? Is that only cause of the noise? I would have thought that nearly everyone would prefer pipes in the internal walls. Re: Advice required - Double Storey 11Sep 05, 2013 12:00 am mwccl How can I tell if a builder is a volume builder or not? Volume builder was a term that you came here with - so it's not terminology that people might normally use. But presumably what you meant was builders that have set plans and churn out multiple of the same design thus increasing the efficiency of how they can build them and provide cheaper prices. Fundamentally builders are builders - the differentiation is usually whether the builder provides the design, or you provide the design. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Advice required - Double Storey 12Sep 05, 2013 12:22 am mwccl But are there things that might not have been mentioned there that I should keep a look out for when building a double storey? - The build style discussed below. - Layout now needs to consider the upstairs dimension as well (things like access to linen cupboards, distance to laundry, etc) - views/orientation/shadows of block/neighbours is important, will you get sun on any outdoor space - Not sure if the rules vary but I think balconies need to be 7.5m from the boundary fence or else need to have a barrier preventing direct viewing. - Consider access to the second storey roof, where solar panels might sit - access to clean windows/walls/whatever on the second storey Not all are massive issues just things to keep in mind. mwccl The issue that I have is, we want to maximize our space and want large rooms and kitchen. Most of the volume builders seem to have pretty "standard" sized rooms. From what I have read so far, it would start to cost more once we start increasing the size of every room etc. Yes it will cost more but you would expect that - most builders whether project or boutique will allow you to customise the design a fair bit, so changing room sizes won't be an issue. mwccl We are hoping to build a double storey with total living area of around 400sqm including the garage. Our budget is probably around the $500k. Our house is about that size and around that price - you will struggle to get 400sqm of house from a traditional style build for $500k or less so you probably want to be re-evaluating one of those figures. Most builders will talk in figures of $'s per sqm so you should be able to do the sums when talking to builders - but that is just the cost of the build, if you want to finish the house off, or upgrade to nice features, then you need to cover that off too. mwccl The closest thing we have found so far is "The Expressions" by Integrity developments/builders. Have anyone heard of this builder before? You definitely want to go visit display homes to see their houses first - even boutique builders will have some homes they can demonstrate/show-off their skills with. I haven't heard of them before which might not mean much. mwccl With the different methods for double storey, which method are you using? Is one better than the other? Although not directed at me - we are using 101 who do a timber framed pod upstairs while the standard double brick downstairs. The easiest way to learn about them is to go to 101 display homes. 101 will tell you how great it is and how there are no problems, every other builder who does things traditionally will tell you how terrible and noisy they are. I investigated it quite a bit before we signed up with 101 and to summarise the two views they basically come down to: 1) Traditional double brick = less noise, more solid (ie to hang from walls etc), more familiar to builders (meaning less risk around having knowledgeable people doing the install) 2) Steel truss, timber frame pod = cheaper to build, quicker build time, potentially improved insulation (debatable point) I'm not living in the house yet to compare the noise levels - but the upstairs space is basically above the theatre and guest bedroom for us so I'm not too concerned. In terms of the difference in cost, all four of our PCQ's came back within $20k of each other and the 101 version provided 60-70sqm more living space than the equivalent traditional style designs. My advice would be to get out there and talk to people, have a look at as many display homes as you can, speak to the consultant at each one, ask loads of questions, even ones you think you know the answers to, just get a discussion going since it will educate and inform you so you can make the best decision for yourselves. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Advice required - Double Storey 13Sep 05, 2013 12:04 pm zaxon mwccl How can I tell if a builder is a volume builder or not? Volume builder was a term that you came here with - so it's not terminology that people might normally use. But presumably what you meant was builders that have set plans and churn out multiple of the same design thus increasing the efficiency of how they can build them and provide cheaper prices. Fundamentally builders are builders - the differentiation is usually whether the builder provides the design, or you provide the design. Thanks for the detailed explanation! Usually, if you provide the design, are you expected to provide everything? What if I only have a layout in mind? Re: Advice required - Double Storey 14Sep 05, 2013 12:06 pm zaxon mwccl With the different methods for double storey, which method are you using? Is one better than the other? Although not directed at me - we are using 101 who do a timber framed pod upstairs while the standard double brick downstairs. The easiest way to learn about them is to go to 101 display homes. 101 will tell you how great it is and how there are no problems, every other builder who does things traditionally will tell you how terrible and noisy they are. I investigated it quite a bit before we signed up with 101 and to summarise the two views they basically come down to: 1) Traditional double brick = less noise, more solid (ie to hang from walls etc), more familiar to builders (meaning less risk around having knowledgeable people doing the install) 2) Steel truss, timber frame pod = cheaper to build, quicker build time, potentially improved insulation (debatable point) I'm not living in the house yet to compare the noise levels - but the upstairs space is basically above the theatre and guest bedroom for us so I'm not too concerned. In terms of the difference in cost, all four of our PCQ's came back within $20k of each other and the 101 version provided 60-70sqm more living space than the equivalent traditional style designs. My advice would be to get out there and talk to people, have a look at as many display homes as you can, speak to the consultant at each one, ask loads of questions, even ones you think you know the answers to, just get a discussion going since it will educate and inform you so you can make the best decision for yourselves. I have also read something about using a concrete slab between the ground and first floor. Is that something that I should look out for as well? Re: Advice required - Double Storey 15Sep 05, 2013 12:23 pm mwccl Thanks for the detailed explanation! Usually, if you provide the design, are you expected to provide everything? What if I only have a layout in mind? I was probably a bit loose with my terminology too - what I meant was that you have a custom design. For project builders, you start with their base design (in our case the Frappe) and either build it as stated (they might have a couple of alternative options in terms adjusting the layout), or you can customise it to your own spec (see how our design differs from their base here). Different companies will have different levels of flexibility so shop around. I even found different consultants at the same company to be more helpful sometimes. For boutique builders, they will generally book time with a designer (often at a cost ~$1000-ish) where you can get some drawings done up based upon your specification. All you need to do is bring a reasonably clear idea on what you want your house to look like so they can pull something together. In both cases, the main thing you will be doing is making decisions - it is just the size of the decision that might vary, while their engineers/designers will do the rest for you. A third option is to speak to an architect and pay for a detailed design to be done up - and then go out for tender to get that built. This may involve the architect overseeing the build - in which case they'll charge a % - or you can just get them to draw up the plans you want for a fixed price that you can then take to builders. Usually an option for larger budgets than what you are looking at. I'll still come back to visiting display homes and talking to people - the advice that we give here is very generic and you need to experience it yourself. Builders will tell you what you need to provide and how they do things - and coming back here to sanity check is definitely worth doing but shouldn't replace the first hand experience you can get yourself. mwccl I have also read something about using a concrete slab between the ground and first floor. Is that something that I should look out for as well? This is a fundamental difference between the builds - if they are using a concrete slab, odds are it will be double brick upstairs and what I classed "traditional". We don't have a slab between ours, since it is steel truss and timber frame (check here). The choice in build style is up to you - my comments were just highlighting the feedback I had on both styles. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Advice required - Double Storey 17Sep 05, 2013 12:34 pm mwccl Another question I have is, what is the best way to find out the list of display homes in Perth? Do I have to go to every builder's website and look for them or is there a simpler way? The weekend papers usually have a list in the property section that provides a useful starting point (includes name of builder/design and beds+baths) - most of the time there will be a set of display homes clumped together in the same location with a tendency for two-storey homes to be together, and single-storey to be together (but not limited to that). They change over time but key areas for us were: - Alkimos - Burns Beach - Honeywood/Wandi - Harrisdale - Baldivis So pretty much both ends of the freeway (we'd do NoR Saturday and SoR Sunday on weekends when we were looking). Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: Advice required - Double Storey 18Sep 05, 2013 12:36 pm zaxon mwccl Another question I have is, what is the best way to find out the list of display homes in Perth? Do I have to go to every builder's website and look for them or is there a simpler way? The weekend papers usually have a list in the property section that provides a useful starting point (includes name of builder/design and beds+baths) - most of the time there will be a set of display homes clumped together in the same location with a tendency for two-storey homes to be together, and single-storey to be together (but not limited to that). They change over time but key areas for us were: - Alkimos - Burns Beach - Honeywood/Wandi - Harrisdale - Baldivis So pretty much both ends of the freeway (we'd do NoR Saturday and SoR Sunday on weekends when we were looking). Great! Really appreciate all the help! Re: Advice required - Double Storey 19Sep 05, 2013 2:14 pm What I did was sketch on paper my very rough design vision for the block and my builder made it 10 times nicer and more practical and drew it properly etc. We went back and forth making little changes until I thought it was perfect. I do believe however that if I just showed them the block they probably would have drawn something that would fit on it from scratch based on what I want. Also there are double storey display centres at Bletchley park in Southern river, a few in Wandii, Coogee and Lakelands. Re: Advice required - Double Storey 20Sep 05, 2013 2:31 pm Wifi and cordless phone coverage! Upstairs make sure you have a phone socket installed because your cordless phones may not work up there (esp. if you have a concrete floor), and if you plan to wifi your internet think about how that's going to travel too - if you have a landing would that be a good place to put your modem etc? Have this stuff put in pre-build because post build it's nigh on impossible. 1 4581 Hi Kristy Around $1.7-1.8m or around $4,600/sqm. if you PM me your email I will send you a break up in a spreadsheet so you can get an understanding of the costs for… 1 9952 Minimum overhang into gutter must be 50mm, turn down tool should not split the sheet. it seems wrong tool for the profile was used, the flashing cannot slope back. Rib… 2 2126 |