Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 01, 2013 9:58 pm Hey everyone was just wondering what the pros and cons are about timber framed house as I may be considering doing it also does anyone know if it is a lot cheaper than a brick house and any other infomation will be much appreciated thanks Re: Timber framed vs Brick 2Aug 02, 2013 8:47 am I don't think you'll find a convincing "one is better than the other" answer to your question ... it seems to be purely about fashion. I've got work colleagues from Belgium who tell me nobody would get a house made with a wooden frame holding it up; and yet in Sydney it's standard practice (and in looking at houses in the last 3 years or so I've not seen one which wasn't built using either a wooden or steel frame as the starting-point; this includes every construction-site I've peered over the fence at, custom & project builders, etc). I think the difference comes down to wooden frames being more susceptible to rot & termites, if not done properly; double-brick is more prone to cracking/settling if not done properly. Building using a frame appears to be cheaper; but that may only be because everyone is doing it. It doesn't seem any less sturdy. From an insulation point of view it makes little difference, with modern building materials (50 years ago a cavity-brick place would be much better at staying cool in summer & retaining heat in winter - but with modern insulation it's no different). So it's all about fashion. The only thing to be wary of is getting something decent for your money. It's been said on this forum that around Perth, everything is double-brick apart from the cheapest of houses. You'd want to do your research before deciding on a wooden frame house there; because it's possible that you can't get a properly-built wooden-framed house there because everyone building "proper" houses is using double-brick. So the fashion of the area can affect you; it's not just about your preference. And fashion also affects resale; if everyone buying used houses thinks they want double-brick ... Re: Timber framed vs Brick 3Aug 02, 2013 9:09 am Hi, Timber framing (as in, brick veneer) is pretty a pretty standard construction method. The outer brick skin on a brick veneer wall is basically there for looks (almost like cladding), provides a strong "shell" for the building and provides thermal protection. The timber frame within is what is supporting your roof and upper floor etc. Having a timber framed house without the brick skin (so you would use a fiber cement or timber cladding) would be cheaper than double brick or brick veneer not only in material cost but also labour as you would not need to hire a brick layer and any builder should be able to install cladding. You can still achieve good thermal properties with timber/clad only but you would need insulation with a high R value. Structurally it would be the same as a brick veneer as the brick is not really structural. Double brick would be more expensive to build and is also not ideal to live in (coming from someone who lives in a 1940's full brick home). Timber is much easier to work with as it is very easy to drill and nail into and running cables, pipes etc is very easy. Making additions later down the track is easier also. Double brick is generally only used where water penetration is an issue such as a subfloor room. So basically, a timber framed or brick veneer home is standard and full / double brick is really not so common these days Re: Timber framed vs Brick 4Aug 02, 2013 11:38 am As well as being cheaper an advantage of a framed house is you can get it waterproofed quicker. once you start building on the slab it's possible to have a roof on in a couple of weeks. There are som emor ethoughts at this link http://www.anewhouse.com.au/2013/01/why-brick-veneer/ The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Timber framed vs Brick 5Aug 02, 2013 11:50 am Mark K So basically, a timber framed or brick veneer home is standard and full / double brick is really not so common these days This is definitely not the case in Perth, as mentioned by Forg above. Also because framed houses are so uncommon, the framed builders in Perth tend to charge a premium and double brick is usually cheaper. It all depends on where you are building and what is considered the norm. Our custom Gemmill Home in Bedfordale WA Build thread:https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53788 Timeline on page 1 Re: Timber framed vs Brick 6Aug 02, 2013 12:25 pm soakedblonde Mark K So basically, a timber framed or brick veneer home is standard and full / double brick is really not so common these days This is definitely not the case in Perth, as mentioned by Forg above. Also because framed houses are so uncommon, the framed builders in Perth tend to charge a premium and double brick is usually cheaper. It all depends on where you are building and what is considered the norm. Ok, I'm not familiar with buildings in WA... It looked like Forg said brick veneer houses in WA were the cheaper / "not proper" option? In any case, I am interested to know why double brick is so common in WA.... Can you shed some light? Thanks, Mark Re: Timber framed vs Brick 7Aug 02, 2013 12:33 pm I think framed house are perceived as being inferior to double brick in WA because it is so uncommon. The house I am living in now is framed and when we brought it so many people questioned why we would buy a framed house and told us it wasn't as strong and sturdy as a double brick house which obviously isn't the case, just what people believe. There are a few owner builders in the street we have just built the new house in and all of the them have or are building framed houses and my understanding is that it is cheaper to build this way if you are sourcing the materials yourself. For those that want to build with project builders, it is not because the project builders will charge more because it is unusual. I have no idea why double brick is so common in Perth, perhaps some clever marketing by brick companies in the early days Our custom Gemmill Home in Bedfordale WA Build thread:https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53788 Timeline on page 1 Re: Timber framed vs Brick 9Aug 02, 2013 12:39 pm Forgot to add, from my experience when you go to buy/sell an established framed house in Perth the sale price is generally lower than double brick houses of the same size and finish level. Our 4 bed framed house will sell for approx the same as a 3 bed double brick one in the same area. I think is what Frog meant by brick veneer houses being seen as the cheaper/"not proper" option. Our custom Gemmill Home in Bedfordale WA Build thread:https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53788 Timeline on page 1 Re: Timber framed vs Brick 10Aug 02, 2013 12:47 pm Good old Google Seems it is because of Perth's stable sandy soil. http://www.mbawa.com/custom/mba_directory.asp?SID=13 Our custom Gemmill Home in Bedfordale WA Build thread:https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53788 Timeline on page 1 Re: Timber framed vs Brick 11Aug 02, 2013 1:08 pm Mark K In any case, I am interested to know why double brick is so common in WA.... Can you shed some light? I reckon I can; even though I've only visited Perth for maybe two entire weeks of my life ... Fashion & history. People still want double-brick, the market provides double-brick, because more builders use double-brick it's cheaper to build double-brick ... and so on. A few Belgian workmates tell me it's the same over there; they just use brick because they always have, having a wooden frame is considered inferior & not for any reason apart from the "fact" that "it must be inferior because nobody does it". Re: Timber framed vs Brick 12Aug 02, 2013 1:54 pm Another reason for the historiacal preference for Double Brick houses is they have more thermal mass. Before insulation became the norm there was considerable advantage in having a higher thermal mass. Brick houses tended to be more comfortable than timber framed houses. The advent of higher insulation has swung the comfort advantage to Brick Veneer. (unless you go for reverse brick veneer). The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Timber framed vs Brick 13Aug 02, 2013 2:53 pm I've pretty much always lived in double brick places built 100 years or more ago. They do have great insulation and (mostly) great sound insulation as they are and we have never put in any ceiling insulation etc. If you get a run of a few really hot days (say 4 days over 30 degrees) it can be hard to cool them down though - not sure how a timber framed house fares but I hope to find out soon enough. As mentioned above if insulation is now pretty comparable I'm not convinced that there are any other real benefits. Of the double brick places I've owned, the floors, ceilings and roof are still timber framed so in the event of fire or termites etc they are still coming down and you still need an annual termite inspection. Also when trying to calculate your "replacement cost" for insurance purposes they ask for the construction type and from memory double brick works out more so perhaps not only are you paying more upfront, you are paying during your ownership of the place. http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Timber framed vs Brick 14Aug 04, 2013 10:34 am Another reason for the double brick preference in WA is due to fact that we don't have the massive amount of tall timber that the eastern states had and we had good clay close to Perth , it was the most economical way to build when the state was settled and its carried on from there. over here if you went through a builder the cost to build framed or double brick is around the same. We priced both options when we built and the framed came in $5000 more expensive. There is also the perception over here that double brick is better and I personally prefer the solidity of db which is why we did'nt go framed that said I think framed housing is becoming more popular over here. Re: Timber framed vs Brick 15Aug 16, 2013 9:18 am Not so much any more. All you have to do is compare R-values for double brick vs brick veneer and the DB comes in a poor second. There is no way we would consider DB for our external walls especially if we lived in WA because of the hot summers or in Melbourne/Tassie because of the cold winters. Once you start to throw R2.5 wall batts into the stud frame and maybe sarking or higher rating foilboard to the external face of the timber you are starting to look at a much higher rated wall than DB. Stewie Re: Timber framed vs Brick 16Aug 21, 2013 1:31 pm In Perth double brick is incorrectly perceived as being stronger, therefore more desirable. This isn't true because the external leaf doesn't carry the roof load. The reason for the second (external) leaf is that clay bricks are semi-permeable so when it rain's in windy conditions (as it does in Perth) the water absorbed by the external bricks is not transferred to the dry internal leaf. For that reason using a veneer leaf is no lesser or stronger than a double brick alternative. A Stewie D has pointed out reserve brick veneer performs much better thermally than double brick, so if you can afford the extra cost, it could be worth considering. Double brick can use a cavity insulation , however if they are not installed properly they can "bridge the cavity" and create dampness issues internally. They certainly are not the norm, however more and more people in WA are turning to alternative construction methods to double brick. In the end, whatever is driving your project (budget, thermal performance, aesthetics) will ultimately decide your external finish. Personally I think a blend of brick and timber cladding works very well to give depth to the elevation. Building Designer http://www.moloneyds.com.au This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 8052 Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15924 2 8366 |