Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 26, 2013 11:51 am We're very close to moving in to our new house. Handover is done, flooring, window coverings and the driveway are done... it's an exciting time. However, we have a problem with fencing. Which is vital to keep our pets secured in the yard. After a lot of hassle, we've managed to get fencing sorted out on two of the three boundaries, but have run into problems with the final one. We can't even contact the neighbours on that side to get the fencing arranged. We've been trying to contact them for three months. It's an empty block, so we got their present address from the council, and began trying to make contact. We've sent numerous letters. Normal letters have been met with no response, registered letters have been left at the post office, and phone calls have gone unanswered. I have no idea how to proceed from here. If we can't contact them, we can't really proceed with getting our fencing finalised. We're not the only ones having problems. The contractor who did our other fencing also did their back fence. Initially, they verbally agreed to split the fencing bill with their rear neighbour. But when it came time for the invoice, they refused to pay him, and are now playing the same trick with him, avoiding him totally to avoid payment. They've been doing that since late last year, and he's just about given up on trying to get his money. One of our neighbours knows the family who owns the block, as their kids go to school together. They definitely live at the address we have been given, and the phone number we have is correct. However, he has informed us that "there's no way we're going to get a cent out of them - they're not the type to willingly pay for anything". He's advised us to just give up and pay the full amount for the fence. We've done everything the technically correct way, sending them an initial quote for the fencing three months ago, then following that up with a formal, legal fencing notice (under the Dividing Fences Act) when we heard no response. However, we have no way to prove that they have received any of these, as we have had no reply, and the registered letters have been left at the post office and eventually returned. I guess our next options are: * Go knock on their door. That's likely to result in a door being closed in our face, and could be construed as harassment. * Raise the issue with a local magistrate to get a legal "Fencing Order". However, without any evidence that they have received our communication and acknowledged it, this may not be a viable option. * Just build the fence and live with the extra cost. My wife isn't keen on this option at all, as it just rewards them for screwing us around. I'm presuming we're not the only ones to have run into such a situation, so I'm wondering what the best option is to get this sorted out quickly, so we can move in. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 2Jul 26, 2013 12:02 pm aaronh I guess our next options are: * Go knock on their door. That's likely to result in a door being closed in our face, and could be construed as harassment. * Raise the issue with a local magistrate to get a legal "Fencing Order". However, without any evidence that they have received our communication and acknowledged it, this may not be a viable option. * Just build the fence and live with the extra cost. My wife isn't keen on this option at all, as it just rewards them for screwing us around. Well, you have certainly had your fair share of issues building your house Aaron! I'm glad you got the other side sorted out. In this case can you not build the fence anyway and possibly go through civil actions to get their share? I really have no idea, haven't been in that position, but I would be feeling pretty damn mad at this point. Good luck...I really hope you don't end up forking out for all of it Wiz Built @ Brooks Reach Built the Verdelho Guest with Beechwood Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 3Jul 26, 2013 12:39 pm Fencing is not mandatory, its optional. You can't force the neighbour to pay for half the fence. Best way to get it sorted out quickly is to pay for it yourself. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 5Jul 26, 2013 12:56 pm Hi, Not sure where you are building, but if you are in an estate and they specify that you must have fencing then you are within your rights to have them pay half. It might be worth giving legal aid a call, they will offer some free advice, and you don't necessarily have to take it, but they should know more clearly what your options since you cannot prove that the neighbours have received your letters. My feeling is that if you do take it to court that the judge would summons the neighbour to appear and at that point if they play the "we didn't know" card then the judge will give them a timeframe from that point to reach an agreement or bring them back in. I know you want to get into your house, and I know you need a fence for your pets but I agree with your wife, you cannot let them win this out of principal!!! Good Luck! Colours - 6/13 Tender & Contract - 7/13 Title - 12/5/14 Scrape - 29/5/14 Frame complete - 20/6/14 Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 6Jul 26, 2013 1:51 pm StGeorgeBuild Fencing is not mandatory, its optional. You can't force the neighbour to pay for half the fence. Best way to get it sorted out quickly is to pay for it yourself. This is not the case in NSW: http://www.lpma.nsw.gov.au/__data/asset ... an2011.pdf Under the Dividing Fences Act 1991, adjoining owners must share the cost of the fence, except that: • an owner must pay the additional cost if they want a fence of a higher standard than is required for a sufficient dividing fence • an owner will have to pay the full cost if the existing fence is damaged, either deliberately or negligently, by the owner or by someone else with the ownerís permission. If the fence is damaged by a tenant, the owner must pay for the work even if they plan to claim the cost from the tenant • public authorities with control over Crown lands, parks, reserves, roads etc. do not have to contribute to fencing costs. However people living next to such properties may be able to negotiate with the authority for a contribution. In this case, the development covenants specifically spell out the type of dividing fence that is to be erected. However, the owners of the adjacent block aren't convinced by the legislation, and have been telling the fencing contractor that they don't have to pay for the rear fence at all, and to stop harassing them. They're now playing the same trick with me for the side fence. The rules are very simple in my case: send them a fencing notice, go to court, and recoup the costs. However, since they are refusing to acknowledge receipt of the letter, and have rejected registered articles from my address, I have no way to prove they received the notice, which would complicate any court proceedings. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 7Jul 26, 2013 2:00 pm fairview My feeling is that if you do take it to court that the judge would summons the neighbour to appear and at that point if they play the "we didn't know" card then the judge will give them a timeframe from that point to reach an agreement or bring them back in. That's what I've been leaning towards doing. I'll go see the council this afternoon, and get their advice. If they can't help, I'll book in an appointment with the Local Court Magistrate, which isn't an expensive proposition, and present the facts of what has gone on. I have copious records of trying to contact them, which will help. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 8Jul 26, 2013 2:16 pm Hi aaronh Sorry to hear of your troubles - its amazing how some people like to pass the buck. Not sure if you're in NSW but if so start with LawAccess 1300888529 - they would be well adapt at sending you information in this regard. Also check out your local library. There is a book called the Law Handbook (in the legal tool kit) all libraries have this. On page 891 it goes through issues on dividing fences and on page 893 shows how you can still get an order even if you have not been able to contact them, it says "If an owner cannot be found to receive the notice (or notice to attend court) after a reasonable effort, the Local Court or the Land Board can go ahead and hear the case in their absence." Best of luck http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 9Jul 26, 2013 2:17 pm Surely if you can prove you sent the letters and the address you sent them too that can prove within reasonable doubt that they have seen the letters and have ignored them. You could also maybe get your phone records and show that you have in fact rung their number as well. That shows that you have made an effort to contact them and that they have ignored your efforts in an attempt not to pay. Blog http://tobuildahomeimprobable.blogspot.com.au/ Settlement Apr Council Jul Contracts Dec Earthworks Dec Frames Jan Trusses Feb Roof Feb Windows Mar Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 10Jul 26, 2013 3:39 pm Where are you located? In WA land owners are under no obligationn to contribute to fence costs until they have substantially completed building on their land. If it's a vacanat block I suspect you don't have any choice but to put the fence up at your cost and try and get them to pay half when they eventually build. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 11Jul 26, 2013 6:14 pm Have you tried Registered Post, Person-to-Person Delivery, with Delivery Confirmation? The Postie does the door knock, saves you the confrontation. Just hope someone is home. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 12Jul 26, 2013 6:21 pm Temporary ringlock fence with star pickets until they show up... buy it on eBay and sell it on eBay when finished. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 13Jul 26, 2013 9:30 pm Althom Where are you located? In WA land owners are under no obligationn to contribute to fence costs until they have substantially completed building on their land. In NSW, the Dividing Fences Act states that they are obliged to pay half. Unfortunately, many people refuse to believe this, leading to disputes. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 14Jul 26, 2013 10:00 pm robbie55 Not sure if you're in NSW but if so start with LawAccess 1300888529 - they would be well adapt at sending you information in this regard. I'll try them on Monday. I'm pretty sure where I stand legally, but the issue is really contacting the neighbours. If I can't contact them to serve a Fencing Notice (even by signed Registered Post), then other alternatives like serving a summons for mediation are going to be impossible too. Quote: ... you can still get an order even if you have not been able to contact them, it says "If an owner cannot be found to receive the notice (or notice to attend court) after a reasonable effort, the Local Court or the Land Board can go ahead and hear the case in their absence." That is what the ladies at the Local Court offices are advising. However, it will take 4-6 weeks to see the magistrate for a fencing order. I'll spend another week trying to contact them, and if that fails, I'll just pay the fee to see the magistrate. The court office staff gave me informal advice that I'd be safe to just build the fence at this stage. The magistrate is likely to make a ruling that they are required to pay half, even if the fence is already erected before the hearing. Section 22 of the Act provides for compensation to be granted for an already-completed fence if it is ruled to be "just or equitable" to do so. However, it might mean a very long wait to be reimbursed - up to three months after the fencing order is made by the court. At this stage, I'm wishing I'd pushed things harder earlier. I'd been naive enough to assume that they were probably just too busy to answer the letter, or away on holidays. That was until the fencing contractor let me know about the money they owed him, and other neighbours started warning me about them, and confirmed that I had the correct contact details. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 15Jul 27, 2013 10:05 am The only thing I'd be worried about in all of this is that you have to live next door to these neighbours and i wouldn't want to be putting them offside. In saying that they've put you offside too but i wouldn't want grumpy neighbours Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 16Jul 27, 2013 12:04 pm Megs25 The only thing I'd be worried about in all of this is that you have to live next door to these neighbours and i wouldn't want to be putting them offside. In saying that they've put you offside too but i wouldn't want grumpy neighbours I was of that opinion, and was prepared to just pay for the whole fence, and get on with things. But my wife is adamant that it's much worse to start off the relationship with the neighbours by giving into their ploy. It's better to be seen as too legalistic than to be seen as a pushover who is easily conned out of the best part of a grand. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 17Jul 27, 2013 12:44 pm I tend to agree with your wife. I would want to show them that I stood my ground and that I was not going to push around ... who knows the issues that that you might have when (if) they start building. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 18Jul 27, 2013 5:00 pm How awful, I just can't believe some people. Fingers crossed for you. My Hamptons build (completed): viewtopic.php?f=31&t=63370 Moved in Wednesday 11th Dec 2013 Front landscaping completed June 2016 Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 19Jul 30, 2013 6:23 pm This is getting Pythonesque. I managed to get a mobile number for one of the owners from someone in the neighbourhood, so I called her. After explaining the situation politely, the conversation went like this: "Oh, the letters must have been lost because we have just moved recently. We're not there anymore." So I asked for their new contact details, while wondering why they didn't set up mail forwarding. "OK, the new address is 13 <garbled noise>". "Sorry, I didn't get that". "It's 13 <garbled noise>". This repeated a dozen times. In the end, I just gave up and asked for her to SMS her contact details to me. So she SMSed me an email address. I forwarded through the fencing quote to that email address, and got a bounce-back - "this user does not exist". So I sent an SMS back asking for a postal address and preferably a working email address too. I haven't heard anything back since. I'm hoping they're just having a really bad streak of luck in being contacted, and I'll finally get through. But that seems a tad optimistic at this stage. Re: Neighbours refusing to talk to us about fencing 20Jul 30, 2013 6:39 pm I think you'll be lucky to get a satisfactory response. To a point it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt but that point - to me at least - is well in the past. Time to go the whole hog or cop it on the chin. At the very worst they could approach you to resolve the matter in the meantime. http://camdenbuild.blogspot.com.au/ by invite only please pm me it depends on the natural ground level, if they excavated their boundary wall needed to be built as a retaining wall. If you filled, which sounds like the case then you… 1 7084 The only thing to add to these comments is that where possible it's always good to try and work with people than just say "no" because you can. Having someone… 4 17127 Need to remove glass panel out of concrete without wrecking the glass to get the spa room in, any recommendations on how to do that. Thank you 0 39037 |