Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 13, 2012 9:49 pm Hello all! After months of stalking I've decided to bite the bullet and ask some opinions. Yes, I have read the threads on each builder on the forums, and read NUMEROUS build blogs, but I thought a couple of direct questions could not hurt.... ! We are planning a build and have gone to tender with Zen, Metcn, Alkira, and Wisdom (using as similar as possible designs). All waiting for these to come in! A bit of background: - We have a non-typical block in a knock down rebuild area of north Sydney. - Site is.... well.... has some issues that need a bit of retaining (in some places up to 1m), dealing with massive gum trees etc. - we need a builder who will work with us through the site issues to ensure we end up with a great house on a useable block. My thoughts on all at the moment: 1. Metcn - wife likes the display homes (she hasnt seen the others). Terrible service to date. Ignoring site issues "its your problems to deal with after the house is built". Not overly impressed. Cost is ok at the esimate stage. 2. Alkira - started strong with service but dropped off. Smallest house, but cheapest at estimate stage. 3. Wisdom - AMAZING service. appears to be willing to work with us to fix site issues. have come up with some great solutions. Really have worked hard for us. BUT want to charge handling fees, zone allowance because of a KDR area - and are otherwise the most expensive by a good few lengths. 4. Zen - very late to the party (but catching up quickly). Great service once the engagement was made. Best design (and most professionally presented) by a country mile. Indicative costs are halfway. I will engage a building inspector to inspect at every critical point before payments are made, for peace of mind. We are going to be (for various reasons, mostly geographical) pretty hands-off and will rely on our inspector to do a lot of heavy lifting. Any thoughts as to good or bad experiences? Ability to be price competitive? Like everyone, we are trying to build the best possible house for the best possible price, with as few headaches as possible (although some are mandatory along the way!) Any thoughts greatly appreciated - including pictures of completed builds, problems etc!!. Cheers Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 2Nov 16, 2012 6:58 pm Hello doohan777, Your experience comparing builders were the same with mine. Those 4 builders were the strong candidates for us but we finally chose Wisdom because lots of reason. At the end, I can see it all depends on the supervisor you got. I knew friends building with Zen, across the road is with Metrcon, friend with Fowler, Eden Br, and another Wsdom homes. If you get a good SS, then you'll be fine & progress will be good. We did a bit regret it during our build because we didn't get the best supervisor W have. Our SS has no longer worked for them anymore just a week after our handover. But.. Luckily Wsdm is a very responsible builder I must say, after handover we had so many complaints (creaking floor, toilet didn't work, missing remote garage door, garage door noisy sound, a/c too strong, stacker doors not enough keys, etc) & they handled it pretty quick & tradies keep coming to fix it within 3 weeks after we have moved in. We are starting to enjoy the house now & it's a good house. So far no leaking & everything functioning well. The insulation works, which I'm so grateful for. We haven't used A/C if it's too cold/ too hot outside. Anyway, just follow your heart & budget. Stick to the design you like best. Upgrade to whatever you wish for. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 3Nov 17, 2012 12:40 am Thanks for your thoughts on this one. I think it is going to come down to a two horse race I think... I am keen that my SS doesn't have to look after too many sites, so that just about knocks out the biggest builders who churn way too many houses out and put too much pressure on their SS's to keep an eye on all the tradies!! Have also heard a lot of bad stuff about one of the builders in particular as well. Which is a shame, as their marketing and their finished product (at least the display homes) are very good. In your opinion, are you able to negotiate with the builders on price and on terms much? Thats going to be very important for us. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 4Nov 19, 2012 10:00 am Price is not negotiable, but keep an eye on their promotion. Because when we signed up our contract, they don't have promo like free polyurethane kitchen or free Barina car. So, depends on the timing of yours. Good luck! Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 6Nov 19, 2012 1:42 pm Soon an, definetely room for negotiation with zen, particularly with contract payments. Zen is a very different guilder than the others, due to how they work, you deal directly with the owners and they oversee all stages of the build, if you have any questions etc you go straight to them,obviously the other builders work in very different ways, with paperwork/admin/SS etc. One saving that has to be looked at is the length of time from approval to start of construction and then construction time. Zen started building the day after approval and had a 25 week build time, although I believe the new contracts are now 32 weeks for two stories. In comparison, the other builders then all put you in the construction/ordering queue. Willcres and her approval 3 weeks before us, we had a slab before Christmas where as she had site start in February, to us that was a savings of approx 10k due to less rent being paid while in construction. Zen don't have any specials as such as that is not how they work, what other builders offer as bonus' zen offer as standard inclusions. There is no way I would want a car, and would be a turn off to me, because it isn't free, you are paying for it at some point, and then left with a car that you would sell for less than it was worth. Good luck with your decision, a metr!con across from us actually had a relatively pain free quick build, but I believe like willcres said it is in the hands of the SS. Alkira well...... Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 7Nov 19, 2012 1:51 pm Not good feedback from Alkira? M, I am frustrated by their response times and failure to think outside the box. Alkira were great but have fallen away a lot. I get to see all their houses and meet everyone in a couple of weeks so that should sort the wheat from the chaff! The zen guys are good but i think their workload has increased significantly. Response times have slowed a lot, but then again they've caught up (almost) to where I am with the others, and we started with the others around 8 weeks earlier... just waiting on that elusive estimate....! Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 8Nov 21, 2012 12:58 pm Hi doohan777, we are also doing a KDR in northern Sydney - Hornsby area... Have you decided on a builder yet? We haven't really contacted Met... only looked at their plans on their website... don't know why but I have the impression (good or bad) that we don't have enough money to build with them... Wisdom - we have had discussions with the salesman at Homeworld.. just not sure about them... nice sales person... just seems to be a lot of 'add on's' from what I have read on H1... Zen - we have had numerous concept plans (poor Jerue) but still haven't worked out the plan yet that suits our needs (or budget)... The workmanship of a Zen home is very high plus their inclusions are amazing... Alkira - I'm sorry to say - are a joke... Great designs but have massive, massive problems with communication or should I say one sales person does and that person (from our experience) will not let anyone else deal with your inquiry.. Does not return phone calls, doesn't receive your emails that have changes to a floor plan then finds it and sends you a 'standard' plan of changes that other people have done because 'that is similar to what you want', even though she had been 'drawing up our changes' why ask for your changes if you are not going to use them. Very annoying because we really like the floor plan. Good luck with your build, hope you keep posting on H1, it is always good to communicate with people who are going through the same experience... good and bad.. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 9Nov 21, 2012 3:38 pm If you can do owner builder, I think it'll be great. Save like $100k. That's what I was told from my neighbour who did it himself. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 10Nov 21, 2012 3:46 pm All good tips. Unfortunately I won't be able to do owner-builder. Not got the spare time unfortunately..! FYI Carak777 M have come in cheapest (at the estimate stage). Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 11Nov 22, 2012 7:48 am doohan777 All good tips. Unfortunately I won't be able to do owner-builder. Not got the spare time unfortunately..! FYI Carak777 M have come in cheapest (at the estimate stage). Thanks for the info doohan... might just have take a closer look at M. Love the sound of owner-builder but would not know where to start Looking forward to more info about your build e.g. size of house, size of land. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 12Nov 22, 2012 9:01 am doohan777 FYI Carak777 M have come in cheapest (at the estimate stage). Check if Mtrcon include concrete for alfresco, eaves for 2nd floor, driveway, a/c. We also went tender with them and it weren't included. and M additional extra are more higher than Wisdom at that time, e.g : 3rd garage , W was $9K, M was $15K A/C 22KW, W was $13K, M was $15K Also eaves are additional for M, around $2K at least. But I think Wsdom also doesn't include driveway now, they give $5K allowance for outdoor? But my tenders with them all was from 2010-2011, so it may not accurate anymore. Carak, you can do an Owner builder course , my friend did it for 1 day course, she said about $180 to get the certificate. Then ask around I guess. But it's hard work.... Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 13Nov 22, 2012 9:20 am willcres doohan777 FYI Carak777 M have come in cheapest (at the estimate stage). Check if Mtrcon include concrete for alfresco, eaves for 2nd floor, driveway, a/c. We also went tender with them and it weren't included. and M additional extra are more higher than Wisdom at that time, e.g : 3rd garage , W was $9K, M was $15K A/C 22KW, W was $13K, M was $15K Also eaves are additional for M, around $2K at least. But I think Wsdom also doesn't include driveway now, they give $5K allowance for outdoor? But my tenders with them all was from 2010-2011, so it may not accurate anymore. Carak, you can do an Owner builder course , my friend did it for 1 day course, she said about $180 to get the certificate. Then ask around I guess. But it's hard work.... Hi willcres, I just did a google search for owner builder courses... plenty available..... doesn't seem 'real' that you can become and owner builder just by doing a course online..... will look into it further....not sure if I would be 'strong' enough to stand up to big, tough builders... Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 14Dec 03, 2012 9:55 am Not another one Who will be next Just makes trying to find a builder REAL scary Have you narrowed your choice down yet snakeman? Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 15Dec 03, 2012 11:50 am snakeman Just a note here...found out yesterday from insiders grapevine..Metcn seems to be in financial trouble.. If they are in trouble it doesn't bode well for the whole industry. That's scary if it's true. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 16Dec 03, 2012 5:52 pm snakeman Just a note here...found out yesterday from insiders grapevine..Metcn seems to be in financial trouble.. HI SNAKEMAN MORE INFO ON INSIDERS GRAPEVINE Deposit on land 20/03/12 Deposit with Builder 01/07/12 Tender signing 12/10/12 Into Council 20/01/2013 Site work started 30/04/2013 Keys 15/11/2013 What can i do tomorrow better then today Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 17Dec 04, 2012 7:44 pm Snakeman if I was you I'd be making pretty certain about the truthfulness of these kind of rumours before positing on here as it could lead to a few unnecessary sleepless nights for people building with Metr!con. And if there is some truth to what you're saying then more than just a one liner is needed... Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 18Dec 04, 2012 9:26 pm carak777 willcres Carak, you can do an Owner builder course , my friend did it for 1 day course, she said about $180 to get the certificate. Then ask around I guess. But it's hard work.... Hi willcres, I just did a google search for owner builder courses... plenty available..... doesn't seem 'real' that you can become and owner builder just by doing a course online..... will look into it further....not sure if I would be 'strong' enough to stand up to big, tough builders... It's real, alright lol. 6hr face to face white card course ($100) then an online owner builder course ($189) then apply for owner builder permit ($154). Courses are a cert I level and so basic that it is scary. I did the owner build thing and it was a great experience. Hardwork, huge learning curve but overall enjoyed it. Took me 6mths & 10days from slab to move in. Still had driveway and landscaping to do but inside was finished. Owner building is not for everyone. You do need to have a bit of a clue about the process. I'm a builders daughter so grew up with it all around me. Amazing how much sticks when you're not consciously watching. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 19Dec 05, 2012 7:04 am I've not seen an owner-builder house being built which hasn't taken less than ... well forever, really, because the owner-builder figures "gee that's expensive & I can always do it later" they seem to end-up in this 90%-done stage and then 10 years later when it's time to move out there's a frenzy of work so everything is finished for the sale. I was going to say "OK that's an exaggeration" ... but thinking about it seriously, dunno if it is! It just seems to be a really common trap, and I'm only guessing that cost is the main factor - I suppose, also, the owner-builder is probably WAY over the whole process & just wants to move-in ASAP regardless of whether it's fully complete. I think even the most disciplined owner-builder, like Vess, would struggle to get tradies lined-up in the correct order & with the correct timing to compete with the timeline of a professional builder, wouldn't you? Do you have to know them personally? I mean, you'd be offering the tiler maybe a week's work whereas a professional builder would be offering a year's worth (& a project builder has their own people who they schedule to work for them full-time) ... so you're always going to be prioritised into holes in the tradespeople's schedules. I think I'd go postal trying to schedule all of that. It seems to take a week to get a plumber out to fix a leak in the gas heater in your match & cigarette-lighter hobby room ... On the white card thing ... I know people who've obtained them for free online. I'm told it's legit, and they've been allowed on building sites. Re: Comparison of builders (Wisdom, Metcn, Zen, Alkira) 20Dec 05, 2012 3:38 pm Vess, congratulations on building your own home. Don't have the experience of building so think it might be a bit 'too much' for me to understand. Even though DH says I am bossy I don't think I would be able to boss big tough builders around. I think you have to be a 'special person' to be a owner-builder, you are lucky you have what it takes.... Most of us.... well, we would rather let someone else do all the work.... Hi, guys! If you've built with Wisdom Homes, would you mind sharing images of your front facades once they're all rendered? I'm considering signing up with them for a wide… 0 13705 Can someone please offer some advice? Im DESPERATE. Because I'm completely and utterly exhausted. How long are variations taking with other companies at the moment? We… 0 18249 In fairness nobody gave a crap about the ACCC and the gag clauses continued in the pro forma templates of a few other builders after the ACCC took on Wisdom, and more… 20 73085 |