Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jun 13, 2013 12:21 am Hi I'm in the process of buying a block of land in Victoria (south East). The block is quite wide and the living area's can be designed to be north faced. Currently looking for options to build a frame-less house. I've done some research on the internet and found following options (feel free to provide others) 1) ICF = Render/foam/concrete/foam/plasterboard -) systems like Zego, Insulbrick, Thermacell, Formcraft => how do they compare? -) example sites http://www.formcraft.com.au/ - http://www.danishconstructions.com.au/insulbrick/ - http://www.zego.com.au/ 2) AAC = Render/insulation/aeriated concrete block/plasterboard -) system like Hebel Powerblock+ -) example site http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/Pages/Systems-and-Finishes/Hebel-Systems-PowerBlockPlus.aspx?dmid=1 3) wood/concrete block = single layer but can be rendered/painted/... -) system like Timbercrete (Builderscrete in USA) -) example site http://timbercrete.com.au/ 4) Benex = single layer but can be rendered/painted/... - example site http://benex.com.au/ I've read a lot, but on company sites they can place whatever they want... A) what is your experience with these materials? B) how do they compare? I'm sure I'm not the first.. C) what are their specific advantages/disadvantages D) Do you know builders who can build with these materials (Can't organise everything myself as builder owner) E) do you know other systems? Re: Frame-less house options 3Jun 13, 2013 3:54 pm I have done a bit of research on these as well before. Apart from 1, all the others required some sort of frame to work with. Also, although ICF does not need the frame to be there to work with, you are actually using steel poles during the process to form the frame inside the ICF. But why you want to have a frame-less house thou? Re: Frame-less house options 4Jun 14, 2013 10:19 pm Quote: why a frame-less house? 1) i'm looking for a more solid construction which will last many years 2) want to avoid pests inside the wall cavities (had it before in a rental) or termites... 3) improved insulation and better thermal mass (hoping to pay less for the electricity and gas companies) 4) less flammable than wooden frame 5) avoid much damage due to flooding 6) improved sound insulation from outside that's about it. Re: Frame-less house options 5Jun 14, 2013 10:55 pm baksteen 1) i'm looking for a more solid construction which will last many years Framed houses has stood for centuries in Europe. It's a matter of thinking longevity into it, already in the design phase. Quote: 2) want to avoid pests inside the wall cavities (had it before in a rental) or termites... Unless you go with solid walls (which wouldn't be too smart), you will need insulation, and since the insulation has to go somewhere, a cavity is necessary. However, there are ways to stop the possibility of snakes, rats, mice and so on in those cavities: Make the house as airtight as possible, and when you do need to have a hole, make sure there is metal mesh in it. Quote: 3) improved insulation and better thermal mass (hoping to pay less for the electricity and gas companies) Neither of which precludes a framed house. And as for thermal mass, it needs to be added intelligently. Thermal mass on the outside of the house doesn't help if the house is insulated enough. Quote: 4) less flammable than wooden frame I take it that means you will be using rockwool as insulation? Which, btw, will protect any wood from open flames by the very nature of rockwool. Quote: 5) avoid much damage due to flooding And how exactly do you intend to protect the underfloor from damage due to flooding? What about the connection from floors to walls? Quote: 6) improved sound insulation from outside Heavy walls can be built on frames too. The best solution for insulating for sound is to use heavy walls, which are separated by heavy and very, very thick insulation (think "rockwool"again). That is with a sound coming from the "other side". However, unless you want to live in echo chamber, you don't want all your internal walls to be hard concrete.The best is some sort of air permeable membrane (covering) that allows soundwaves to go through and directly into rockwool or similar product. Obviously, you don't want that everywhere, but that's the idea. You also want to have the different floor areas (living, kitchen, bath, sleeping etc.) separated, so the noise from walking doesn't transmit to walls or directly through the floor from one room to the one besides it. Everything is a compromise, and you do want some period of (sound) decay, as it allows us to navigate. If you have ever been in an anechoic chamber you will know just how important this is. But you also don't want too much. And the most difficult to dampen is below 100Hz. It's basically not seen in people's houses. All in all, I think you need to put some specific thoughts into how this can be done and what a specific choice will mean to something else and how you will then solve that new issue (and so on). Re: Frame-less house options 6Jun 24, 2013 8:54 pm Quote: Framed houses has stood for centuries in Europe. It's a matter of thinking longevity into it, already in the design phase. I'm originally from Europe and saw the first framed houses once I've moved to Australia Grew up in my parents house which was a double brick and almost over 100 years old. When I've build our first house it was again double brick with injected insulation and triple glass. Guess I'm just not used to framing. In the first house we rented here we got a few pests inside the cavities and when someone opened it up they also noticed that some parts were rotten... all in all my thrust in the framed approach is a bit low after that. combine that with a risk of flash flooding and fire danger and I'm just not interested in wooden frames... Therefore I was informing and investigating the alternatives. There many out there (and I'm sure there not all good) but probably some of them are quite decent. As from my research, the main reason big builders don't use it is due to the increased costs, which I'm ok to bear. Not everyone will think like that, but he that's me. Re: Frame-less house options 7Jun 24, 2013 9:54 pm Our experience is that attempting to do anything outside of what's standard will cost money; and that cost is double, triple, quadruple. Unless you can do it yourself, you're paying waaaay over the odds to try anything different to standard in this country; and to be honest, I wouldn't see it being worth paying that much extra to avoid a few problems that only occur if something "standard" here is done badly in the first place (because IMHO there's as much chance something different will be done badly anyway). We used to sit & watch Kevin McCloud saying "and the massive wall of triple-glazing is setting Fred back 100 thousand pounds!" and think wow how exxy; we now think wow how cheap compared to here! Re: Frame-less house options 8Jun 24, 2013 10:17 pm baksteen Quote: Framed houses has stood for centuries in Europe. It's a matter of thinking longevity into it, already in the design phase. I'm originally from Europe and saw the first framed houses once I've moved to Australia Then you haven't looked. These are the oldest types of framed houses still in use all over Europe: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ And then we moved from there (in other words, the building technique evolved). Re: Frame-less house options 9Jun 24, 2013 10:25 pm I think some of your points can be solved. My 2 cents: Our pest bloke gave good advice (I happen to have known him for over a decade). If you get the design right, get the right treatement installed and have an annual inspection you'll never have any pest issues. (Our installation comes with 25 year, 20 million dollar insurance policy provided we get an annual inspection). As for insulation, we're getting timber frame (H2 treated) with wall insulation and fibrous panel cladding. We won't need an air con, just a heater. Cheap and very effective insulation. Windows are Low E coated, some special viridian stuff. There are some quite effective ways to ensure you can minimise energy costs. It all starts with clever "passive" design. Getting your angles and window openings correct to let in a heap of natural heat in winter, then something inside to hold that heat, like concrete flooring. in summer, stopping the heat getting in and appropriate ventilation etc.. I think you need to get a hold of an environmentally minded designer, that's where we started and haven't looked back! at most it will have a short lintel which could be moved up just below the ceiling or even above. Above means you need to patch the cornice and might need to deal with… 2 61375 This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 8021 Hi, We have a single story MacDonald Jones house, on a waffle pod slab with steel frame. Are we able to build a second story extension? Other info is we are 900mm from… 0 8474 |