Browse Forums Building A New House Re: My Aveling Build 241Dec 07, 2013 7:39 pm Very very interested in what they said in that email. I think you should just post it so that we can all get an idea of how screwed we all are as clients. That's rough mate, hope you get it sorted! Re: My Aveling Build 242Dec 08, 2013 1:05 pm To hijack another thread I'll start of by saying I like your plans - look good tho I had to read through the first page to figure out if you were having a pool for that other bathroom. I'm a fan of the activity area near the bedrooms that keeps things out of the way. I haven't maintained the entire quote (but for reference to anyone else reading check here) SslayerR Not sure where you shop but cheap is not usually good, occasionally you can get a bargain I will admit but usually a cheaper product is of lesser quality. The reason I earn what I do, is because I am worth x amount, if you want someone better it will cost x more if you just want the cheapest option you will save x amount. But those cheap and poor quality products are probably built really fast. You are reinforcing the point that I've made - the triangle isn't an absolute law, it is just a rough guideline that helps people prioritise what is important. Another PM adage is "if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority" which reflects that most people when asked to prioritise will say "I want everything now" rather than work out what is most important. Because they think that if they prioritise 1 thing, then they won't get anything else when it is rarely that black and white. SslayerR LOL. Of course it is, the contract is a sham which allows them to extend for reasons ranging from the weather to the tradie had a crash on the way to site. If you actually read your contract there is virtually every excuse written into it to allow the builder to extend and still be within contract time. Not really sure how to respond to this one - if you genuinely believe the contract is a sham and it is unreasonable to allow the builder more time if there has been poor weather, I'm not really sure why you would want to build. The clauses would have been built into the contracts to protect the builders in case of genuine delays and having owners sue them over this. Do the clauses get abused? Probably at times. But having seen some of the impatient posts on here - I'm not really surprised that they exist. I've seen people screaming over delays that are simply that the house next door had some stage completed quicker than they did - with absolute no reference to their own overall timelines or expected completion. SslayerR Only because the client managed to find the mistake, the problem with enjoying the ride and not watching them is the stuff they manage to hide from you. I never said don't watch them or trust that everything will be done right automatically. And where I disagree with your statement is the assumed attitude that they are trying to hide stuff from you. I know our plans probably better than anyone working on the build so I'm often more likely to spot something not quite right. But our SS still picks a lot of things up. I'm not sure if it is different for other people - but I've built a trust with our SS that means he can be open/transparent with issues and I don't jump down his throat or hound him when they do occur. We had the wrong colour essastone bench tops installed in the kitchen this week - when I tell others the story, I get a lot of people saying "oh no, what are they going to do, are you just going to have to live with it?" and it surprises me anyone thinks that way. Because no, the builder will rectify it (I took a photo on my phone, sent it through to the SS/CLO and it was acknowledged by the end of the day), it may just be another week or two before it's done. And for me that is the right result, no complaints. SslayerR I, like you all have paid good money (regardless of cost really as it is a huge amount for anyone) and I expect a job to be done to a good standard not a cheap one. I agree with you here - but what is the objective measure of "good money" in terms of how that translates to quality? And my point about the triangle is if you want to focus on good - are you willing to allow for delays? During our build, our SS has offered us choices at a few points for tradies saying "I can get one crew in - they are quick but a bit sloppy, or I can wait for another guy who will take a few weeks longer but he'll do a neater job". 100% of the time, I'll choose the slower but neater guy. Should every trade produce the same quality/standard? Yeah absolutely, but reality is that they don't. SslayerR My "stress" over the course of building is well justified as I am minimizing the risk of the old "wish I saw that before the maintenance period was over" story. I'm completely the same - I've been tightly wound since we did the demo. And I visit our place a few times a week - because picking up an error that loses a days work is going to be less painful than picking up one that will lose a weeks work. My point was more that you shouldn't stress about the issues you are picking up on the way - I flag them up to the builder, maintain an ongoing list (usually 1-3 items open on it - sometimes assigned to me if I need to do things), and just tick items off as they are rectified. SslayerR So really I completely disagree with you and think all people building should expect the best (especially as each builder harps on how good they are at sales) and be vigilant, I will spend the next 50 years enjoying and being happy with the house, for the 6 months of building I will be on their back to get it done right, not cheap, not good, not fast just plain old right. Expect the best and be vigilant - absolutely. But also be open-minded, and willing to collaborate with the builder. I do feel sorry for people who perhaps aren't getting the best managed experience - but a starting tone of "the contract is a sham and they will try to hide all sorts of things from you" doesn't feel like it is going to build a positive working relationship. Apologies if you have actually got one of the not-so-great ones - but I think you'll find that any major builder in Perth would be more than willing to help people out if we (as owners) demonstrate we are willing to find a positive outcome for everyone. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: My Aveling Build 243Dec 08, 2013 10:42 pm Fair call, I will write a bit more and clarify some points tomorrow. I think the main reason I and many others get upset, is the stupid little mistakes they make, such as the colour of the stone. If it takes them an extra 2 weeks to fix that it is $1000 of my money into rent when a) it was not my fault b) they should be better than that. Yes I know I should expect a few issues when building and I am more than happy to accept that, what I can not accept is a poor job done slowly that blows out the build time constantly, especially when the tradesman on site causes an issue that wasn't there to begin with, because now it costs me money in rent. Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 245Dec 09, 2013 12:36 am I don't disagree with feeling frustrated - and coming on here can be useful to vent. But at times it is easy to get into bashing the builder for mistakes because you want someone to blame - and I don't see how that will improve the overall outcome. Of course, when venting the point is to get it off your chest as much as anything else but then usually we need to refocus and be productive SslayerR I think the main reason I and many others get upset, is the stupid little mistakes they make, such as the colour of the stone. I was talking to my hairdresser (of all people) on Saturday about our build and the error with the stone bench tops. And as he pointed out, everything is most likely just product codes - someone has put one digit wrong, or swapped them round the wrong way. So where we feel like it was a big mistake and how on earth did they get the colours mixed up - the reality is that the interior designer we had was the only one that really had visuals and for everyone else it has just been lines of paperwork. It doesn't excuse the mistakes - and I'd love if they didn't happen - but sometimes you just need to roll with it. It took months to get the translucent glass sorted out for our windows, and I could see our SS getting more and more worked up by the fact that they came out repeatedly and one window wouldn't be right afterwards. I just laughed at him, I have no idea how they could get it wrong so many times but they did, and I also knew that they would sort it. SslayerR If it takes them an extra 2 weeks to fix that it is $1000 of my money into rent when a) it was not my fault b) they should be better than that. Let me preface all this by saying that I'm living rent-free while we build - so I'm a little more accepting of delays than most people. If we weren't able to live rent-free, we'd be building a smaller house and we would have stayed living in our apartment during the build. But is the extra two weeks based upon delays in the overall contract? Or because it feels like it was a 2 week delay due to that being the resolution time? Delays suck - and even more so if it means more rent to be paid - but the good risk management you were highlighting before should include allowing for the build to take the longest time allowable. No matter what the builder says or promises at sales time. 101 focused on 23-24 weeks being the average slab-to-handover build time when we signed up (probably a fact - but I'm sure people would take it as the promised duration for their build) - and we were building a relatively large and complex home for them so it wouldn't be relevant anyway. SslayerR Yes I know I should expect a few issues when building and I am more than happy to accept that, what I can not accept is a poor job done slowly that blows out the build time constantly, especially when the tradesman on site causes an issue that wasn't there to begin with, because now it costs me money in rent. Agreed - and like you no doubt, I'm constantly looking for ways to minimise this. Whether through vigilance on regular visits, or sending repeated emails and making a lot of calls. What I try to avoid doing however is attacking my builder on forums like this without having given them a reasonable chance to respond - not saying that you've done that but it just seems to be what I see a lot of and partially why I jump on my soapbox. I've seen a few inflammatory/personal posts against my builder which I felt were undeserved - and I like to encourage people to be more reasonable, our SS and CLO are still great even when the occasional mistake is made so I don't see the need to put them down. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: My Aveling Build 246Dec 09, 2013 10:23 am squirrel Hi sslayerR, Our build with aveling is going fairly smoothly at present but reading your journey with them is not comforting. Wish u well from this point on and hope commonsense prevails. I guess Aveling is running to a plan. I am a bit more critical of them as we decided to go with one of the luxury packages. When buying a top end product you should be able to expect a top end finish. For example when I go to site and see that the sparky has not even bothered to use a measuring tape or level to install the power points, anyone can throw a mark on a wall and drill a hole, when building a luxury house surely I can expect them to measure the distances between points so the finished product looks semi professional. Im sure the majority of Aveling builds will go fine (and I hope yours continues to do so) I just think they are not ready to go into the higher class of house builds because they seem not to care about the little things, and the little things is why my house is over 350k for a single storey. Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 247Dec 09, 2013 11:45 pm SslayerR The same as every one else. Taken from HIA contract "Other than in relation to the final payment, a progress payment is on account only and the Owner has no right of set-off." So it doesn't matter who you are, if they demand payment, for argument roof cover, the builder can pretty much demand payment and you have to pay even if the roof is not on. I guess the HIA contract was written by builders for builders because anyone who reads it will quickly realize the builder can do pretty much whatever it wants and the client has to suck it up and pay anyway. The HIA contract is designed to keep the client locked in a box while the builder runs free. Thank you Australian government for making this possible......because if you don't sign this piece of garbage no one will build for you. I will PM the response to you LeanneR SO can someone tell me what is the point of a progress payment if your not allowed to hold payment if they have not progressed the house to a certain point???????????????????? Very confused and very tempted to post the email Hi Slayer It can be hard work keeping everything on track, can't it? I know we've been surprised at how many issues we've spotted that our builder hadn't. The issue of progress payments for work not done is dealt with in the Home Building Contracts Act, which can be found here (see section 10): http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_423_homepage.html This explanatory brochure says: "Once work has commenced, any progress payment must only be for work actually performed or materials already supplied. For example, a builder cannot demand a progress payment for the purchase and delivery of bricks until the bricks have been delivered to the site." http://www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/docs/brochures/home_building_contracts_act_fact_sheet_aug13.pdf It doesn't solve the practical issue of your ongoing relationship with the builder, but might be worth knowing. The Building Commission may be able to give you advice about this if you need it. Good luck. Built with WBN in WA Slab down 16 Aug 2013, Handover 16 April 2014, Moved in 2 June 2014 Our house build thread Re: My Aveling Build 248Dec 17, 2013 10:21 am BI-FOLDS ARE IN YAY !!!!!!! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 249Dec 17, 2013 4:35 pm Wow! They look great! My Build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64881 Re: My Aveling Build 250Dec 17, 2013 8:20 pm Looking good. There was a flurry of activity there yesterday. There were still people there at 6pm. Re: My Aveling Build 253Dec 18, 2013 10:03 am Thanks guys, everything seems to be running smooth now, hopefully all the issues are behind us and it just a matter of time now. Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 255Dec 18, 2013 9:59 pm cameronandmiranda Thanks for the info Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 256Dec 19, 2013 10:07 am SslayerR cameronandmiranda Thanks for the info You're welcome. The bifolds look great. We just got ours too. Built with WBN in WA Slab down 16 Aug 2013, Handover 16 April 2014, Moved in 2 June 2014 Our house build thread Re: My Aveling Build 257Dec 19, 2013 10:25 am The bifolds do look great - build envy at times... "maybe we should have done that". I like the windows being done the same too, it would really open up a large shared entertaining area if you wanted. Demo + Build in Rivervale, Western Australia Moved in June 2014 http://rivervale.tumblr.com/ Building Thread Re: My Aveling Build 258Dec 19, 2013 10:33 am Lovely. I should have done bifold in my kitchen although it goes around corner so prob wouldn't work anyways hehe Re: My Aveling Build 259Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm Thanks guys. Not sure if bi-folds can go around a corner, they would need some sort of supporting frame at the corner I am guessing which will ruin the look. Bi-Folds are lovely but they cost a lot so if you ever feel like having them just remember you saved 10k by not putting them in lol Hope your build goes well Builder - Aveling Homes Type - Luxury collection 4x3 Design - Chicago My build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64958&p=1024362#p1024362 Re: My Aveling Build 260Jan 05, 2014 7:19 pm Looking very, very good slayer Our thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64272 Purchased land August '12 Titles Jan 27 '13 Prestart - Jan '13 Thank you so much everyone. This all makes a lot of sense. I guess when you talk to a builder who butters up everything to look very polished, you get to start believing… 7 17591 Hi, did you get any money from insurance? if you did, does it match what you've already paid the builders? 3 9565 Hi We have finally decided to complete a KDR on our corner plot in NE Melbourne suburbs. Given its a corner plot approx. 400 sqm just a standard design may not fit the… 0 8568 |