Browse Forums Building A New House Re: House size vs lot size 21Feb 01, 2013 6:20 am Agree - there needs to be some rules - if only to protect us against ourselves ... Re: House size vs lot size 23Feb 01, 2013 9:33 am I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right. The garage would be on the boundary (or 20cm off) and the other side would be 1.2m off?? I lived in a rental similar to this in Hillside and you will have to realise that basically all of your rooms are going to be very dark. The house I was in had the family/dining/kitchen to the backyard so these areas got a lot of light. But the rooms along the sides with only a window on the side facing a fence a metre or so away, were very, very dark. As this plan has a rumpus at the rear, and an alfresco at the side, you'll get very, very little light into the main living area. I'd imagine you'd have the kitchen light on whenever you are in there unless you install some skylights as you'll get virtually no light from the side. Is this house on display anywhere? If it is, go and see it and ask the consultant to turn off all the lights and check out how dark it is. Then imagine it on your aspect (whichever way your block faces), with fences extremely close. Narrow blocks are no problem if the design is smart, but on a narrow block, with the rumpus and the alfresco blocking most available light to the main living area, and the only window to the living room not under a roof being a metre or so from a fence, I'd have some concerns. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: House size vs lot size 24Feb 01, 2013 9:00 pm It's an all too common problem. Blocks are getting smaller but the trend is for ever wider houses. Most single storey display houses don't comply with the timber code, but due to lax building surveyors they are slipping thru the system (now dominated by the volume builders, anyway.) It was never like this (in my day).....when I started designing, you were taught to look at the site, orientation, slope, etc and design the house to suit. These days, people look at the width and length of a block and try to squeeze as much house as you can on it. And people wonder why their houses are hot in summer and cold in winter.....there ain't no sun nor breeze getting in....that's the problem. Sorry, I'm straying from the topic. Re: House size vs lot size 25Feb 01, 2013 9:53 pm Forg LittleWing Actually I am referring to Plumpton, Victoria Oops! I'll back away now ... Google Maps wouldn't tell me a Plumpton existed in Victoria! Weird! It showed up for me maybe it doesn't like you?? HD Re: House size vs lot size 26Feb 01, 2013 10:01 pm joles I just want to make sure I'm understanding this right. The garage would be on the boundary (or 20cm off) and the other side would be 1.2m off?? I lived in a rental similar to this in Hillside and you will have to realise that basically all of your rooms are going to be very dark. The house I was in had the family/dining/kitchen to the backyard so these areas got a lot of light. But the rooms along the sides with only a window on the side facing a fence a metre or so away, were very, very dark. As this plan has a rumpus at the rear, and an alfresco at the side, you'll get very, very little light into the main living area. I'd imagine you'd have the kitchen light on whenever you are in there unless you install some skylights as you'll get virtually no light from the side. Is this house on display anywhere? If it is, go and see it and ask the consultant to turn off all the lights and check out how dark it is. Then imagine it on your aspect (whichever way your block faces), with fences extremely close. Narrow blocks are no problem if the design is smart, but on a narrow block, with the rumpus and the alfresco blocking most available light to the main living area, and the only window to the living room not under a roof being a metre or so from a fence, I'd have some concerns. Thank you, you've given me a lot to consider and important things to bring up with the agent The block faces west, so the back of the house should get a great deal of light during the day I imagine. For what it's worth, I am quite light sensitive and have been teased by friends/family for keeping the inside of my house like a cave (in mu current rental, I will turn the dining room lights on, which is adjacent to the kitchen, when cooking, as the bright kitchen lights hurt my eyes.) Yes the house is on display. I will see if they can turn the lights off for me HD Re: House size vs lot size 27Feb 01, 2013 10:09 pm G-Thorpe It's an all too common problem. Blocks are getting smaller but the trend is for ever wider houses. Most single storey display houses don't comply with the timber code, but due to lax building surveyors they are slipping thru the system (now dominated by the volume builders, anyway.) It was never like this (in my day).....when I started designing, you were taught to look at the site, orientation, slope, etc and design the house to suit. These days, people look at the width and length of a block and try to squeeze as much house as you can on it. And people wonder why their houses are hot in summer and cold in winter.....there ain't no sun nor breeze getting in....that's the problem. Sorry, I'm straying from the topic. G Thorpe, thank you for your opinion and information. Very interesting! This is why I started this thread - I have reservations about squeezing the house I want onto this lot. I want to make the best decision I can between what I want and retaining the integrity of the home and the land. If you can imagine my neighbors tried to get the 35 (one size up) of this same design squeezed onto the same sized lot. Hehe but then I heard they are a couple of characters My current rental is horridly hot in the summer and freezing in the winter, has 1.2 on one side and 3 on the other and 3 m backyard (i measured today lol). If a house is built poorly too it makes a huge difference :/ HD Re: House size vs lot size 28Feb 01, 2013 10:39 pm To be honest you should be able to find out what the zoning density is for your block and they will require minimum set backs for all sides. On the sides it will vary usually between 1m and 1.5m depending on the length of the wall and whether it has windows. If there are windows then its usually 1.5m and the window must be a habitable room, hence some toilets are allowed to be closer. The Garage can be a zero lot (built on boundary), as someone else said the boundary wall cannot be a habitable room. When you calculate just place the garage on the boundary and see what the other side set back is. If the house is designed for a 16m block it should fit on a 16m block. Squashing a bigger house to fit changes the internal dimensions and rooms will suffer and it also will throw the costing out. I think going wider is not really an issue but again they will charge for it. Good luck. Mark Re: House size vs lot size 29Feb 02, 2013 2:18 am AussieMark To be honest you should be able to find out what the zoning density is for your block and they will require minimum set backs for all sides. On the sides it will vary usually between 1m and 1.5m depending on the length of the wall and whether it has windows. If there are windows then its usually 1.5m and the window must be a habitable room, hence some toilets are allowed to be closer. The Garage can be a zero lot (built on boundary), as someone else said the boundary wall cannot be a habitable room. When you calculate just place the garage on the boundary and see what the other side set back is. If the house is designed for a 16m block it should fit on a 16m block. Squashing a bigger house to fit changes the internal dimensions and rooms will suffer and it also will throw the costing out. I think going wider is not really an issue but again they will charge for it. Good luck. Mark Hi Mark I have little papers I was given (like paper dolls), where I can slide the picture of the design underneath a drawing of the lot on vellum so you can see the design and how it fits on the lot. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Here's a rough little idea of what it's looking like. (Btw the design here is for 29, so lets pretend its the 33 as it will essentially be the same since I'm going by 33's measurements). Putting the garage on the boundary line, the gap between the other side of the house and the boundary line (labeled c) is then about 1.4m. The yard (a) is about 3.7m, and I am not sure what the gap labeled B is. The c gap is pretty bad, it'd be one long laneway that I'd probably get the ground paved into a concrete walkway. Maybe put some hanging pot plants along the fence so there's something nice to look at out the windows, lol. Or hang up mirrors to create an illusion of depth as they do in interior design, lol. Do you think that I would be allowed windows on th garage side where the gap is? I'm assuming they arranged it so that the gap would be wide enough to assure there could be windows. I'm assuming there is no issue fitting the 33 on my lot as they did have it offered on my lot as h&l package. Of course I'll have to double check this to be sure. One really great thing about my lot is that it's almost directly across from a big neighborhood park (literally just down the block) and near a small reserve, so one can still experience nature if the yard feels too small. What I find strange is that the 35 is the same width but just 46 cm's longer and yet my neighbors were told it would not fit on the 16/32 lot when it should be big enough? HD Re: House size vs lot size 30Feb 02, 2013 4:35 am "the boundary wall cannot be a habitable room".....yes it can! You just can't have a window in it. Think of it this way, draw I line 1.0m around the perimetre of your block. Now draw a 4.0m line back from the front of your block. Everything inside that inner box is your building envelope (for in single storey) Now you can extend any part of your house out of that box to the side (or in good practice, 150mm) of the boundary, but that portion must be have a fire rated wall but also not prevent light or ventilation entering the house below a percentage (5% ventilation 10% light) of the floor area of a particular room. Starting to get complicated, isn't it? Well, now it gets worse..... Which way is North? If you are north of your neighbor (existing) you need to be 3.0m clear of them if they have a window on that elevation, but it's only of concern if it's a habitable room. This is called overshadowing. This also relates to overlooking but that's another issue. ....and I haven't even started on double storeys yet!!!! Sounds confusing but it's really common sense when you think about fire spreading from one building to another and light and ventilation entering and exiting a house. I could also mention, flood pathways, light court easements, common property easements, covernant building envelopes with design guideline affected properties (that's a doosey! Most building surveyor struggle with this one) Unfortunately, most volume building companies also struggle with Rescode issues as they are usually inhabitants of a particular breed of professional who knows just enough to come up with a basic generic design, then a real professional has to modify it to make it comply.....or spend a crap load on lawyers to push their argument thru VCAT. As my former boss used to say: "slice 120 out the guts and add the extra in the garage" Works everytime! Re: House size vs lot size 31Feb 02, 2013 12:13 pm @ G-Thorpe - I think that a habitable room must have light and ventialiation requirements met (at least in WA) that is why Home theaters need to have a window that can open. It may be different in other states but I would think these would be standard requirements. Some try to get around it by calling it a storeroom but I have read about these getting knocked back. Drawing a perimeter as you mention is not strictly correct as there are also rear setbacks that must be adhered to in most cases. The minimum set is also impacted by length of wall with and without windows, and generally moves in with windows (to habitable rooms). Things may well be different in VIC but like you mentioned this can usually be dealt with a garage on one side. Looking at the post above with the plan on it with red lines it looks like the garage side would be very narrow as well...... I guess rules can be subject to approved variations. On gutters in the brickwork, I also don't like them and it looks worse if on once side. If the minimum set back is 1.0m there are encroachment or overhangs permitted for eaves and the codes should specify how much is allowed. The builder should be familiar with the rules, I am a rules kind of person so I wanted to know them so I dont get fed stories on what can and cannot be done as I think sometimes builders dont want to change because its more work and hassle. All good.... Interesting and stressful too when trying to design dream houses..... Re: House size vs lot size 32Feb 02, 2013 2:02 pm AussieMark @ G-Thorpe - I think that a habitable room must have light and ventialiation requirements met (at least in WA) that is why Home theaters need to have a window that can open. It may be different in other states but I would think these would be standard requirements. Some try to get around it by calling it a storeroom but I have read about these getting knocked back. A habital room can form the boundary as long as there is not a window on the boundary wall. I lived in a house where the front lounge, master bedroom, second bedroom and kitchen were all on the boundary. The lounge had windows to the street frontage, there was a laundry and ensuite between the two bedrooms and this was stepped in around a metre from the boundary so created a light courtyard and the two bedrooms had small windows to this light courtyard. (yep, dark house ) The kitchen had it's window to the backyard. The single garage was also on the boundary so the other side of the house behind the garage was 1m from the boundary... with a two storey next door. Of course the above is subject to such things being allowed by the estate. This house was in Hillside Vic and this type of siting was only allowed in the very small blocks with a 7.5m frontage. I can't think of any estate where this type of siting would be allowed on a standard sized block. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: House size vs lot size 33Feb 02, 2013 8:45 pm Im building in WA and due to our block and applying for permission we could build to both boundaries. If you look at my plan both sides go to the boundary, we have no window in the bathroom and WC. We will put in a skylights as I don't want them to be dark! We do have 1.6m setback between the house and the fence, though our master ensuite is used out the the eaves so there will only be 1m between that wall and our fence. If we had the choice we would have a bigger block and not be as close but we made compromises to live closer to the city and our family. I would think you need to talk to the builder and council about what is allowed. Good luck Re: House size vs lot size 34Feb 05, 2013 4:07 pm Set-backs to rear boundaries (in regard to light and ventilation, and fire rating)are the same as side boundaries under the building code (national) as I understand it. What complicates matters are council defined covenants (ie building envelopes) which in pretty much all cases, supercedes rescode. I was recently asked from a private building surveyor to provide a report and consent application for an "over-height" garage on boundary (3.8m high). I simply emailed him a copy of the double storey building envelope showing a zero set-back to that boundary. After he argued for two weeks with the developer and the council, he finally issued a permit.....Would have been easier to listen to me, but rule-makers insist on making rules (and implement them within legal documents) then change their minds. Go figure???? Re: House size vs lot size 35Feb 05, 2013 11:50 pm G- I know what you mean. My block is 15m X 48m (730sqm) and is zoned R10. under R10 rules blocks must be 20m wide and an average of 1000sqm and a minimum of 875sqm. The setback at the front is 7.5M and a setback at the rear of 6m. I rang the council and was told they simply apply the nearest. Seems strange that the block clearly is not meeting the R code but because the whole suburb is zoned R10 so is my block. hmmm do I still have to comply, well front yes because thats what everyone sees, the rest is subject to approval. Does your head to be honest. Re: House size vs lot size 36Feb 07, 2013 3:59 pm AussieMark G- I know what you mean. My block is 15m X 48m (730sqm) and is zoned R10. under R10 rules blocks must be 20m wide and an average of 1000sqm and a minimum of 875sqm. The setback at the front is 7.5M and a setback at the rear of 6m. I rang the council and was told they simply apply the nearest. Seems strange that the block clearly is not meeting the R code but because the whole suburb is zoned R10 so is my block. hmmm do I still have to comply, well front yes because thats what everyone sees, the rest is subject to approval. Does your head to be honest. Oh gosh.......that's so weird u_u! I'm sure that they must make an exception for you. One would hope anyway. As if there isn't enough to deal with in buying land/building :p HD Re: House size vs lot size 37May 29, 2013 2:13 pm In Victoria, we have the Building Regualtions Siting Rules and this is what typically controls the setbacks. Because this thing is complex, it is best left to qualified designers who do understand the rules and how to apply them. It is quite varied in application. Ask me for more. cheers Re: House size vs lot size 38May 29, 2013 4:08 pm Personally I think its ridiculous to build up against a boundary. We found a house we liked (fits a 15m wide block) then went and brought a block 20m wide so we wouldnt be cramped in. You can drive up one side of the house and walk down the other. Theres plenty of light/airflow and no crazy corners for pets to get stuck in. If I didnt have a need for a backyard, I wouldnt be building a house - I'd be buying an apartment. So if I were you, I'd go for the smaller option. Doesnt your land contract state the guidelines about where you can build on the block? - MrsT Brought first house in 2008. Renovated...a LOT. Built in 2013. Our thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67954 Re: House size vs lot size 39Aug 06, 2013 8:22 pm MrsT12 Personally I think its ridiculous to build up against a boundary. We found a house we liked (fits a 15m wide block) then went and brought a block 20m wide so we wouldnt be cramped in. You can drive up one side of the house and walk down the other. Theres plenty of light/airflow and no crazy corners for pets to get stuck in. If I didnt have a need for a backyard, I wouldnt be building a house - I'd be buying an apartment. So if I were you, I'd go for the smaller option. Doesnt your land contract state the guidelines about where you can build on the block? I understand what you mean. It is definitely strange being butted up against another house. I have decided to build on boundary, however it really isn't so bad as the only part that touches the neighbor's house is my garage, and it's my garage against their garage. It's not ideal, but I have plenty of backyard so it doesn't feel super cramped either. Even my ** cats couldn't get into the tiny space in-between im addition, i am lucky to have got a lot right across the street from a massive lark and next to a smaller one My neighbors built a massive two story on a tiny lot (it was initially one lot that was split into two) and to me theirs feels so crammed in o.o HD Re: House size vs lot size 40Aug 06, 2013 11:20 pm G-Thorpe It's an all too common problem. Blocks are getting smaller but the trend is for ever wider houses. Most single storey display houses don't comply with the timber code, but due to lax building surveyors they are slipping thru the system (now dominated by the volume builders, anyway.) It was never like this (in my day).....when I started designing, you were taught to look at the site, orientation, slope, etc and design the house to suit. These days, people look at the width and length of a block and try to squeeze as much house as you can on it. And people wonder why their houses are hot in summer and cold in winter.....there ain't no sun nor breeze getting in....that's the problem. Sorry, I'm straying from the topic. I hear you. We looked at a display home and the bedrooms on the nearest boundary could only have those skinny high-up windows, they felt like jail cells. The other thing I didn't like about it was I'm not a tall person and I thought every time I want to open the window or dust the window sill I have to go get the footstool? If the bigger house doesn't give you anything genuinely useful like more storage or better furniture arrangement options, if it's just vaguely bigger n nicer but it makes new problems because of the size of the block, I'd go with the smaller house. Is the 29 squares with or without the garage? Use to be the size given refered to the house rooms not the garage and porch but I think its different now days? If it includes the garage its still a big house, if its without its huge. Would anyone on this forum know of a builder/company in Brisbane with house designs for a shallow block. I have a block 20 x 20 so with front and rear set backs I need a… 0 4743 You must be new to the internet. You're also the only person anyone here has ever heard of washing their garage wall. I hate to break it to you, there are insects and… 6 4848 I am building in claymore NSW and this is shown in the building envelope plan. … 0 10035 |