Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 07, 2012 4:26 pm Apologies to all hardworking building designers out there who do their best but I really need to air some of my grievances with our building designer. Some of the problems we have had with her include: a. Not honouring the terms of her service agreement in that she never carried out an "in depth" site survey or any site survey, (we even had to go and do measuring of the site for her ourselves which, at the time, we were too naive to question), never visited the site with the builders she tendered to and didn't turn up to site fortnightly as she said she would. Her service agreement actually promised that she would turn up weekly but she told us halfway through the project that our site was too far for her to travel to on a weekly basis, which we stupidly accepted. b. She made changes to our plans when she did her final drawings without consulting us. By that stage, the plans had already been approved by the design committee and some of her changes would have put us in breach of the estate rules if I hadn't thought to ask her for a copy when I heard she had already sent the plans off for an energy rating to be done, and managed to correct some of her more glaring errors. An example of one of her changes was deciding to substitute a Colorbond shale grey roof with a zincalume roof, when we had already given her the design guidelines which stipulated no zincalume. There were a number of other sloppy mistakes, some of which had obviously occurred because she had cut and pasted from another job. c. She sent the plans to the building surveyor without telling us that this meant no changes were possible without paying him extra fees. She did this before we had had an opportunity to comment on where she had unilaterally decided to put heaters - on walls where I intended to put bookshelves. Mind you when I told her we needed wall space for books, her solution was to put them in boxes in the garage! d. She didn't examine the final quote she got back from the builder in any detail. I was able to pick up some things eg that he hadn't included the cut and fill but other details escaped me. I knew we were supplying tiles so read his comment "no allowance for materials" in wet areas as meaning tiles. The builder claimed later on that this included grout and glue which we had to pay for. We accepted this and were then charged over $800 for glue and grout for one small bathroom - 3 x 1.5 and a shower enclosure and splashback in the laundry. e. It never occurred to our building designer that we might need a copy of the contract before signing it. I had to ask her for a copy; it was blank and needed to be filled in at the contract signing meeting. This turned out to be a disaster because the builder had never seen the contract before either and refused to sign it. By this stage we were already having serious second thoughts about her competence but had gone a little too far to turn back. f. She left items out of the spec list, even after I pointed them out to her which meant that we had to pay variations to the builder for things we thought were already included, like low-E glazing to a west-facing window. g. The few site meetings we were able to attend were often a disaster with her and the builder arguing and making no attempt to explain to us what they were arguing about. Early on there was a disagreement about the foundations - all we could understand was that the builder didn't want to dig deeper and have drainage problems and the building designer told him to "get a life" and "not worry about the building regulations". Attempts to sort out what went wrong only resulted in vastly differing stories from the two of them with the designer finally informing us that the builder (she had recommended) was "inexperienced" and she "wasn't going to hold his hand". h. She encouraged the builder to charge us a variation for a front porch deck that was already on the plans. My attempt to ask her for an explanation resulted in her telling me that I couldn't hope to understand anything and that I should ask the builder. His explanation was that she had changed her mind over what she wanted. All I know is that we have ended up with a front porch deck absolutely the same as in the plans. i. She regularly gives out false information - after the final inspection, she informed me and the builder that, once the 6 month defect liability period was over, builder's warranty insurance would cover defects. When I pointed out to her that this was wrong, she told me to get a Home Warranty Insurance certificate from the builder! j. To cut what is getting to be a very long story short, the latest is that the builder has tried to make us pay the final payment without an occupancy certificate being issued. I have pointed out to her that he is breaking the law and she is only concerned that the clock on my computer is out. Just being able to say all of this on this forum is making me feel better but I feel that there must be some way to hold her to account for her incompetence. She tells me that she doesn't have any problems with her other clients but I don't consider myself to be unique and the fact that I continued to give her the benefit of the doubt for so long obviously indicates that I'm of lower than average intelligence, so I find it hard to believe she has no other dissatisfied clients. Also folks please don't, like I did, believe that, because somebody is marketed as a leading "sustainable" designer, they will actually have a good work ethic. I have been really disappointed. Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 4Jul 07, 2012 5:44 pm "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 5Jul 07, 2012 6:55 pm Hi Ed, I tried them some months ago but they said they don't deal with complaints. They have a mediation process to which the two parties must agree. I need someone with teeth. Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 6Jul 07, 2012 7:50 pm Hi Liliana. So disappointing to hear your grievances. Do you still owe her money? Sometimes writing can be helpful (as you have done on the forum), but I mean writing her a letter with your concerns. You may not send it, but if you do I would hope you would get an answer. From your post though, she sounds a tad arrogant. There are always two sides to a story, but yours still sounds terrible by all accounts. Good luck. SunshineT's Build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34585 Designs start: 4/12/09 DA: 5/7/11 Demo: 22/12/11 Slab: 24/2/12 Keys: 31/8/12 Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 7Jul 07, 2012 8:26 pm Hi SunshineT, We have paid her in full and I have written her emails on many occasions telling her my concerns. She never concedes that she is at fault in any way. And she is quite capable, when you correct her misinformation, of repeating back to you what you have just said as if she has only just thought of it herself. It is really like dealing with someone who lives in a world of her own. Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 8Jul 07, 2012 9:30 pm Liliana Hi Ed, I tried them some months ago but they said they don't deal with complaints. They have a mediation process to which the two parties must agree. I need someone with teeth. Surprised, our industry body will kick companies out... in the end, I think your option is VCAT (which is easy and cheap), or just move on ... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 9Jul 08, 2012 8:44 am This may help Your designer acted as if she is registered architect that has been commissioned to do design and contract administration. If she is the she is covered by professional indemnity insurance and if you pursue your case in VCAT her insurer will step in and make good. However, the fact that she is a registered designer (presumably with Building Practitioners Board) suggests that she is not registered architect (perhaps her qualifications did not measure up). Even though she will have professional indemnity insurance as a designer she may have have taken on project management duties without registration as building project manager. In either case you seem to have legit complaint and I agree with Ed perhaps VCAT is the next step. However be prepared to be disappointed because although VCAT is designed to be quick and cheap and in my view does get it right most of the time, it's a no cost jurisdiction. That means you have to pay your own costs. If your case runs for three days (barristers, witnesses, complications etc) it can turn out to be a tidy loss even if you win. It seems to me you just let it go too long, if things don't add up at the start , stop the show and get off the bus. It does not matter who you are dealing with, if promises are not kept, or you are mistreated end it and move on. I have a blog on a similar case that may enlighten you http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/b ... he-system/ Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 10Jul 08, 2012 8:58 am Hi Building Expert, Thanks for your reply. My building designer was doing contract administration which, I believe, building designers are qualified to do. I was just about to post this before I saw your post: I've just had another look at the BDAV website and I've realised that the reason they probably don't handle complaints is that they are not the registering body for Draftsperson (Building Design). It's the Building Practitioners Board, which is to a building designer what the Architects Registration Board is to an architect. I might contact them and see what they say. Alternatively, as you say, Ed, put it down to experience. And you are perfectly right, Building Expert, we did let it go too long. This is what happens when you believe a title somehow makes someone better than you - you start off being deferential, then tactful, then polite, then annoyed, then curt and now I feel like retaliating or, at least, letting other people know to look carefully at the person behind the title even when someone is being promoted by another organisation. Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 11Jul 10, 2012 7:59 am Hi Liliana I am going to comment on your story because I don't want it to be wasted and also because I have seen it countless times before. There is no doubt that you are a victim of trust abuse but that only happened because you did not realise that you are running a business. The business of managing your investment(your home) should be run like a business and trust is nice but not enough. Your bank manager asks you to sign mortgagee (yes he trusts that you will conscientiously pay off a loan but sign anyway). You trust that builder will make his best effort but you have to watch what he does anyway. What is required is project management and control. Management (planning) means setting targets and milestones and control means getting and acting(correctively) on feedback. If someone promises something will be done and it's not, alarm bells have to go off loudly. PM and control is required even if builder is honest and competent (and many are), simply because mistakes can and do happen, and I as a builder know you can't watch everyone all the time. I have seen defects not picked up over four levels of management and inspections. It's also required because it sets the tone for your project ( I am in charge and I am watching so don't fool around). If you are not in charge your ship is in danger of drifting and may hit the rocks. You are the captain. All that is overwhelming for most homeowners who have no experience and simply trust that the builder will do the right thing (many times they do and it's nice but many times they don't). So what can they do? Independent building consultants and inspectors exist for that very purpose, to advise you , give you knowledge guidance and confidence, keep an eye on your project and inspect at critical construction points and to send a clear message to the builder, Hey I am in charge! If you don't have the expertise buy it! It's cheaper than hair replacement. Careful: Inspection industry is not regulated and you have to do your diligence, you will find useful blogs on what to look for on my web site. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 12Jul 10, 2012 9:50 am Great post building-expert. I'm printing that out to stick in the home build folder! Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 13Jul 10, 2012 10:04 am Great post, agreed. Except Liliana's problems wasn't with the builder so much as with the designer pretend to be architect. So a building inspection wouldn't be applicable to her situation, I would have thought. (For the record, I totally support building inspections, and recently paid $550 for an independent building inspection). I just think the situation in this thread is different. But otherwise completely agree with your advice about needing to manage builds proficiently. SunshineT's Build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34585 Designs start: 4/12/09 DA: 5/7/11 Demo: 22/12/11 Slab: 24/2/12 Keys: 31/8/12 Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 14Jul 10, 2012 10:20 am Hi SunshineT-good point of view I think that if you look at it closely enough, it really isn't all that different. It's Liljana's project and the builder is her contractor, so is the designer. A good building consultant has probably the experience in design and construction and would be able to advise not only on build matters but also keep an eye on the designer. You always have to keep in mind that if you are engaging your own designer (as opposed to builder's design and construct)(you are splitting up responsibility) you are responsible for the adequacy of the design and if you are not careful it will open up to variations. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 15Jul 10, 2012 10:29 am Agreed. We have that exact situation - where we designed with a company and got DA, then went to a builder. We are managing our build very closely (perhaps too closely for the builders liking!). But all going OK so far. SunshineT's Build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34585 Designs start: 4/12/09 DA: 5/7/11 Demo: 22/12/11 Slab: 24/2/12 Keys: 31/8/12 Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 16Jul 10, 2012 11:44 am Hi Building Expert and Sunshine T. Thanks for all the interest and discussion. I really hope that this thread will supply other people with the information they need not to fall into the traps we fell into. At the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know and that's why this forum is so incredibly helpful - so you can learn from others who have been there and done that and found out the consequences.
There is no doubt that if I could do this build again, I would do things very differently, and maybe run into different problems! We were not in a position to follow the actual build closely ourselves as, by the time we came to build, my husband had been posted interstate for work and I was already caring fulltime for my mother; that's why we really needed to be able to trust our contract administrator and our builder. On the subject of builders, though, the one piece of advice I would underline for others is that, even though the builder may be very friendly ie sending you Christmas cards and taking an interest in your personal circumstances, at the end of the day, he (or, indeed, she) is not your friend. We realised after a while that the "friendliness" was really a buttering-up technique so that we would be off our guard. Caveat Emptor which is fancy for "Buyer beware!' Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 17Jul 11, 2012 9:04 am Just on the subject of variations, validity is a contractual matter. Your designer cannot "give permission" to the builder to charge you a variation if the work is already in the contract. You can challenge it, if you think it's wrong it probably is. If it's a significant sum you should probably get second opinion. What about PC and provisional sums adjustment and was there contingency sum improperly claimed? From what you posted, your designer has no hope of producing proper contract reconciliation. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 18Jul 14, 2012 8:37 am One last thing to watch out for with your leading sustainable building designer! Our building designer has now decided that, because the house is finished, she is no longer responsible to administer the contract. I have spent the last two weeks trying to get the builder to follow the contract in regards to Practical Completion and Final claim procedure and the building designer, who doesn't seem to know her own contract, has now decided that any additional advice / arbitration / correspondence will attract a $110 ph pre-paid fee. Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 19Jul 15, 2012 9:09 am As experienced contract manager and administrator I agree with you, her job is not finished until the end of builder's maintenance period and all contract adjustments are made. You can make complaint with BPB and request inquiry into her conduct, that will be very unpleasant for her. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Fed up with our sustainable building designer 20Jul 15, 2012 9:23 am Hi Building Expert, I intend to do just that. I'm trying first to finish dealing with the builder so that I can concentrate on putting together a coherent complaint about her. Charging extra money is a favourite tactic of hers. We had to use her building surveyor and pay him twice the amount we would have paid the council building surveyor because she threatened to charge us by the hour if the council building surveyor asked for any amendments to the plans. We have also just realised, because we are in the process of getting gates done, that she has drawn the next door garage in the wrong place so the gates can't be where they are on the plans! Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10985 of course there are legal avenues. You've already mentioned it. Sue them. I find it odd that lawyers wouldnt be willing to take on the case, given CCT evidence and… 1 23764 "Losers" "humanity" "off time" "your" "top notch" "love symbol" Sounds like ponzo is done using other people's toilets 36 23887 |