Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 12, 2012 9:49 pm I'm interested in any advice that can be offered as to whether it's better to have an Architect or Building Designer design a new house. . . . and particularly what the difference is from a "creativity" perspective. Our very basic understanding is that the primary difference between an architect and building designer is that the architect has taken the exam which entitles them to be registered with the Institute of Architects and the building designer hasn't. Is this true? I've read many posts where people have recommended using an architect but our experience to date with architects has been that they're more interested in lecturing us on what they think is "good design" and imposing their personal aesthetic on the design of the house rather than listening to what the client wants and modifying their design to suit the client's preference. Cheers, C-JPAL Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 2Aug 12, 2012 9:59 pm An architect will design you the house of your dreams but wont be able to tell you what it will cost untill you talk to a builder. And its quite common that people arent financially prepared for the cost when it comes to light and then they back out, losing on the cost of the Architect. I recommend talking to a builder so he can realistically liaise with the architect/designer they prefer to use. Its a good question to ask on here and hopefully you will gain heaps of info. Good luck Masterton Sirocco 7 2012-13 30.01-SITE CHECK 29.05-CONTRACTED 28.06-APPROVED 21.08-SCRAPED 13.09-SLABBED 02.10-FRAMED 24.10-BRICKED 28.11-PLASTERED 03.12-LOCK-UP 05.02-PAINTED 21.02-PCI 25.02-KEYS Blog-Thread Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 3Aug 12, 2012 10:04 pm I don't really know but you'd like to think they both could impart their knowledge and inform you rather than dictate or push you into a design that might be wonderfully energy efficient but have impracticalities on lay out. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 4Aug 13, 2012 12:06 am Sorry i might get some abuse for my comments but some Architects = art and design however can come up with a costly design that can not be built. Quote: An architect will design you the house of your dreams but wont be able to tell you what it will cost untill you talk to a builder. And its quite common that people arent financially prepared for the cost when it comes to light and then they back out, losing on the cost of the Architect. I recommend talking to a builder so he can realistically liaise with the architect/designer they prefer to use. Its a good question to ask on here and hopefully you will gain heaps of info. Good luck agree Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 6Aug 13, 2012 12:46 am I'd say it depends on your ideas and knowledge. In some instances you can "make do" with a draftsman. But as always, if you contact an architect or whatever and have a budget in mind is to tell him or her your budget, your needs, and whether or not the person should use standard elements/sizes. The price quickly goes up if you want, say, non-standard size doors and windows, spans or whatever. You basically want as much "off-the-shelf" stuff you can get if you want to keep cost down. Something as basic as gyp rock comes in standard sizes, as does bricks. And nooks and crannies and angles need to take this into account. I think that architects can be a good choice if they have experience with your sort of build and know how to take, say, exchange of air and/or solar passiv principles into account. Or not, if you don't care. A designer, well, to me that's even more of a luck of the drawer. But if you find a good one with experience, it may be a good choice. And then there's the draftsman route. I'd say that if you go with such a person, you need to be very clear and know exactly what you want. Not just in broader terms, but in details (i.e. which systems and how they're implemented, right down to the plumbing and R values of windows/walls etc.). I'm going the draftsman route when I have finalised my design and checked and double checked it in relation to the standards - I'm going to build according to passivhaus standards, and alter it accordingly to the Aus standards where needed* But in the end, it very much depends on what you want, how involved you want to be, and, of course, your budget. *I will alter it to include termite protection, eaves and so on. I won't alter it "down" to the lowest allowed denominator in Australian Standards. I will import all windows and doors from Germany or Austria and so forth as they seem to be leading the pack ahead of Denmark and Sweden. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 7Aug 13, 2012 8:36 am It can be worthwhile going with either. There are some good building designers around e.g. http://www.maxadesign.com.au/ if you are in Victoria, but you do have to do your homework. But the most important thing is to be very clear from the outset about what you are paying for and what you can expect for your money. If I were you, I would get a copy of issue 18 of Sanctuary magazine. There is an article on page 84 called "The business behind building". It gives you very sound advice about setting up a Preliminary Services Agreement before you engage anybody, whether you are using an architect, a building designer or a builder. This sets out the expectations, rights and responsibilities of both parties before you begin and will soon tell you who you can work with. And don't be afraid to have expectations; don't make the mistake we did of thinking we had to go along with what the building designer was doing because he/she is the "expert". Listen, take the time to think and then make up your own mind. And it can take a long time to design a house properly so you don't have any regrets so I wouldn't think this is going to happen quickly. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 8Aug 13, 2012 8:59 am PS_Sirocco7 An architect will design you the house of your dreams but wont be able to tell you what it will cost untill you talk to a builder. And its quite common that people arent financially prepared for the cost when it comes to light and then they back out, losing on the cost of the Architect. I recommend talking to a builder so he can realistically liaise with the architect/designer they prefer to use. Its a good question to ask on here and hopefully you will gain heaps of info. Good luck Unfortunately, the architect that we were working with was intent on designing the house of his dreams not ours . . . Cheers, C-JPAL Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 9Aug 13, 2012 9:12 am Liliana It can be worthwhile going with either. There are some good building designers around e.g. http://www.maxadesign.com.au/ if you are in Victoria, but you do have to do your homework. But the most important thing is to be very clear from the outset about what you are paying for and what you can expect for your money. If I were you, I would get a copy of issue 18 of Sanctuary magazine. There is an article on page 84 called "The business behind building". It gives you very sound advice about setting up a Preliminary Services Agreement before you engage anybody, whether you are using an architect, a building designer or a builder. This sets out the expectations, rights and responsibilities of both parties before you begin and will soon tell you who you can work with. And don't be afraid to have expectations; don't make the mistake we did of thinking we had to go along with what the building designer was doing because he/she is the "expert". Listen, take the time to think and then make up your own mind. And it can take a long time to design a house properly so you don't have any regrets so I wouldn't think this is going to happen quickly. Hi Liliana, thanks for all this - really helpful. We've started looking at building designers in Melb and we've got a quote from one ($15,000) which stipulates only 4hrs of consultation/meeting time . . . Is that standard? I really don't think 4hrs consultation time for a $400-$700k project is enough. I don't expect an unlimited time allowance but 4 hours is very slim. Cheers, C-JPAL Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 10Aug 13, 2012 9:25 am Hi CJ-PAL, Don't think in terms of "standard" - that's where we started going wrong because there is no standard; they set their terms - you decide whether you can live with them. Think rather in terms of what you expect and that is what the PSA will sort out. Is this four hours only for the preliminary consultation? Are there other consultations down the track? Can you correspond by email or phone after and will they be available to talk to you or answer you? Our preliminary consultation probably only took two hours but the time pressure was more from our side as I was caring for my demented mother at the time and couldn't leave the house for long. Also our design wasn't as complicated as yours - no heritage overlay and much smaller house. But you will find that all sorts of questions will pop up in your mind after you have left the consultation so I would be more concerned that there is some line of communication open afterwards. One of our building designer's only good points was that she answered all emails promptly and always seemed to be in her office and accessible by phone. This is probably because she was never out on site where she should have been though!! Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 11Aug 13, 2012 9:53 am You can download a PDF copy of Issue 18 of Sanctuary magazine from this website for $7.95: http://www.sanctuarymagazine.org.au/subscribe Otherwise just check with your local library. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 12Aug 13, 2012 10:33 am Actually, Although there aren't necessarily legislated or enforced standards, that doesn't mean there aren't de facto standards. There are "standards" when it comes to timber, gyp rock and what not. There are certain sizes and dimensions that are prevalent and as such those are the de facto standard.
Take windows or front doors for example: Sure you can get a corner window with no frames, yet openable, or you can get an openable round or triangular window, or you can get a door 57 cm wide and 350cm high, but none of that is standard sizes. What about a roof that in profile is a half-circle viewed from the end. That isn't standard either, and although not very complex, it's still a lot more complex than a flat roof, a skillion roof, or an ordinary roof sloping on all sides. What about drawers and cupboards. More depth than standard will mean other slides for the drawers if you still want a full pull-out, less or more width will also matter and inflluence the price. Or how about having,well let's call them "outcrops", on the house. If you want a classic roof to go with that, you'll have loads of angles and joints that complicates matters for the roofer and the insulation worker. And that's the point: The more something differs from the de facto standards, the more difficult it usually, and the more waste there is. All that adds up in the end. I'm baffled that you say that one should ignore the de facto standards of what sizes the products used by the tradies come in. Of course, if you have enough money, anything is possible. I don't have unlimited amount of money, even though I have a reasonable amount to build my dream house. However, I'm definately working with reality, and I'm not going to waste the money on custom solutions if I can use off-the-shelf solutions for the same end result with a little forethought. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 13Aug 13, 2012 10:37 am Liliana Hi CJ-PAL, Don't think in terms of "standard" - that's where we started going wrong because there is no standard; they set their terms - you decide whether you can live with them. Think rather in terms of what you expect and that is what the PSA will sort out. Is this four hours only for the preliminary consultation? Are there other consultations down the track? Can you correspond by email or phone after and will they be available to talk to you or answer you? Our preliminary consultation probably only took two hours but the time pressure was more from our side as I was caring for my demented mother at the time and couldn't leave the house for long. Also our design wasn't as complicated as yours - no heritage overlay and much smaller house. But you will find that all sorts of questions will pop up in your mind after you have left the consultation so I would be more concerned that there is some line of communication open afterwards. One of our building designer's only good points was that she answered all emails promptly and always seemed to be in her office and accessible by phone. This is probably because she was never out on site where she should have been though!! Only four hours in total - but there's no mention of an hourly rate for follow up consultations. I think that its important to meet in person for most consultations so that there's no miscommunication via email. My other concern is that it takes him (or his assistant) 4 days to respond to any emails. We suspect that might be a tactic to indicate he's busy and that we aren't his only clients. I realise that we're not his only client but I think the professional thing to do is to acknowledge receipt of emails and let the sender know when to expect a response. Delayed email responses that keep you hanging for days is a pet peeve . . . It's not acceptable at our workplace and I expect the same courtesy from other professionals! Cheers, C-JPAL Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 15Aug 13, 2012 10:47 am Hi Danois, There is some confusion here. I wasn't replying to your post when I said "there is no standard"; I was replying to CJ-PAL's question as to whether four hours is "standard" for a consultation. I meant that there is no standard when it comes to what designers charge for their services and what they will do for the money. They set their own working terms. So you have to decide what suits you. Of course there are standards when it comes to materials etc for a house. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 17Aug 13, 2012 10:57 am Liliana You can download a PDF copy of Issue 18 of Sanctuary magazine from this website for $7.95: http://www.sanctuarymagazine.org.au/subscribe Otherwise just check with your local library. Thanks, I looked them up when I read your last response and I will order the pdf today. Cheers, C-JPAL Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 18Aug 13, 2012 11:01 am I've just thought of another tip - try to visit your designer's own house. We had our contract meeting at our designer's house and noticed that a) her house was cold and b) it was almost impossible to get into and out of her driveway. The car couldn't get any traction on her slope and it took us about 20 minutes to get up it and on to the road. I figured from this that she wasn't the best person to listen to when it came to heaters and probably not that crash hot on driveway design. I remembered the first point when it came to putting in heating and ignored her advice on size of heaters preferring to go with the manufacturer's recommendations. Unfortunately we couldn't do anything about our driveway and garage by that stage and we have ended up with a driveway that is practically unusable. We have a station wagon and the driveway is only just long enough to fit it but you run the risk of bashing into the garage door if you go too far forward so the car sticks out onto the footpath. Also you can't back in as the driveway is on a slope and all you can see in the side mirrors is the top of the garage door and it is a narrow garage door. My husband has to park on the nature strip or we'll have to buy a new car! Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 19Aug 13, 2012 11:06 am Danois Wow, I'm utterly sorry and embarrassed Shoot me. Please! Don't worry. I'm not offended. Easy mistake to make. And you are perfectly right that it is cheaper to stick to standard sizes and probably more practical. I was really upset when we couldn't afford 3 metre ceilings and clerestory windows but, having to do all our own painting and with a very stiff neck, I'm really glad. My brother has them and he hasn't cleaned them since the house was built about five years ago. If you want to be able to clean your clerestory windows think of installing a climbing frame at the same time. Re: Architect vs Designer . . . which to choose? 20Aug 13, 2012 11:11 am Danois I'd find someone else. Not only do I find 4 hours very little, but if he's that lax with responding to emails, imagine how it will be when there's a problem. Hi Danois, I think we will have to move on and find someone else. I hate the whole process of looking for an architect/designer . . . I'm frustrated by some of the pretentious attitudes. Apologies to any architects/designers reading this post who take umbrage. It may not be all of you but there are many out there that are quite pompous about their craft. I just want to find someone who will design a nice, comfortable, liveable space that can be built within an reasonable budget. Cheers, C-JPAL Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10984 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10918 Black on light wood does look good. Not sure if it will be as long lasting as a steel finish? 6 6349 |