Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Mar 24, 2008 7:23 pm Please look at the pic below.
In the past i have seen people who take power from one double power point to create another power point int he other wall. But is it legal or safe? I am not going to due it my self, but just wondering if i hire a sparky by hour to do it, then such cloning should be a simple process. But is it legal, safe? Any experiences and advices? Thanks. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 2Mar 24, 2008 7:28 pm Sounds like a great idea to me. I'm sure your electrician wouldn't do it if it wasn't legal. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 3Mar 24, 2008 7:38 pm Yes, jumping from one power point to the other is legal and safe if done properly.
Years ago there used to be restrictions with the number of power points per circuit, but to my knowledge nowadays there is no limit. If you overload the circuit by running too many appliances at once, the circuit breaker will trip as it's meant to, since its purpose is to protect the wiring and not the end appliance(s). So, even if you had a hundred power points on one circuit, the wiring is still protected because the circuit breaker will trip when the overload condition is reached. Of course, the more power points on one circuit, the more chance of an overload on that circuit! Looking at your drawing though, there should be no problems there. It will be a simple job for a registered electrician and shouldn't take more than half an hour per point. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 4Mar 24, 2008 7:44 pm I'd say they'd have to be legal, or once were, as our place is over 20 years old. and it has a lot of cloned power points in it since new - particularly on walls between 2 bedrooms, back to back from the fridge to the loungeroom behind it (albeit dropped some 1200mm, not back-to-back).
It's not like they were put in later when some of them are the only PP in a room. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 5Mar 24, 2008 8:05 pm I hasten to add that if your new home already has back-to-back power points between some rooms, then that's how they are installed during construction anyway! Geoff - Decophile. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 6Mar 24, 2008 8:05 pm If this practice is safe and legal, and it is a good news to me! I will just accept the original number of powerpoints from the builder, and later ask a sparky to clone it for me.
Is it also safe to take power from one light point to other light points (see pic below). All of these lights will be switch on/off from the original power switch. The price for a double powerpoint from the builder's sparky is about $80. And also similar price for installating battenlight. Thanks again. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 7Mar 24, 2008 8:10 pm Yep, same with the lights. Your safe!
A normal house will have one lighting circuit, two power circuits, then additional single use circuits for things like electric oven, air con, etc. Geoff - Decophile. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 8Mar 25, 2008 12:51 am The former owners of our house tried to do something like that. They did put in a big 4 powerpoint in the kitchen..... BUT, drilled a hole through the DB wall, and threaded the cord through and plugged it into the powerpoint above the washing machine.... yes it was a power-board!! Then they sloppily plastered over part of the cord, tiled over the rest as well as the hole they made. I am sure they thought it was a good idea at the time, except to use the kitchen p/point you needed to go into the laundry plug it in and turn it on, then take it out again if you wanted to do the washing...
It was pain to get the darn thing out and we still have half the cord somewhere underneath the tiles. And dont get me started on the rest of the ******* electricals either!! Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 10Mar 25, 2008 7:40 am There are a lot of variables in play but I believe yes there are restrictions on the number of powerpoints you can run. Table 6.1 and Table C1 of AS3018 (Domestic Electrical Installation Australian Standards) refer to this. There are situations where the number of powerpoints is prescribed as "umlimited" but depends on the A of the outlets (10A, 15A), the circuit breaker rating, the conductor size used and the installation method of the cable used.
We ran into problems here when we put thermal and sound installation into our walls and so had to increase the conductor size which in turn placed limits on the the number of outlets per sub-circuit. I think there is also an issue with the maximum demand calculations. Please note that I am not an electrician, and so the above is based on my reading of the Australian Standards and our previous experience building our house. I guess it will also depend on how many "cloning" situatiosn you intend on running? Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 11Mar 25, 2008 12:52 pm We actually set up a lot of our power points specifically in mind to clone them on the adjacent wall. I don't think we will actually do it in many as we have found we have plenty of power points, there is only one at the moment that we are looking at doing it with, but have been told by a couple of sparky's that it's fine to do. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 13Mar 26, 2008 7:23 pm This practice is 100% legal and very commonly used by smart builders (you) to cut costs. After the house is built (because often building companies don't allow your private electrician onto their work-site) extra points are added without too many dramas, and you're not footing the $80/point bill from the builder's electrician.
My friend did this and saved himself a bucket-load. He specifically instructed the builder's electrician to install the single lighting point in each room at a precise location (near the corner) so when it came time to add the extra points (downlights), he didn't have to worry about patching up the unused batten-holder from the centre of the room! While rare, one catch to watch out for is that some walls may have certain obstructions like cavity sliding doors or plumbing etc that might get in the way of running extra wires to the other side of the wall. just started - what year version of AS3018 were you reading? It sounds like it might be a very old version as the "number of points" rulings were dropped from AS3000 two editions (many years) ago. The latest AS3000 out comes into effect from July 2008 and one of the major changes is associated with RCD/safety switch arrangements for multiple circuits. You can't have more than 3 circuits on 1 RCD, and if you have more than 1 RCD, you can't have all your light circuits one 1 RCD. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 14Mar 26, 2008 8:20 pm Will see the builder's sparky this friday morning. then wait the quote from the builder on the additional powerpoints, light points, etc. if the price remain too high, i will use the "cloning" thingy. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 15Mar 27, 2008 8:18 am Eager Years ago there used to be restrictions with the number of power points per circuit, but to my knowledge nowadays there is no limit. No limit? Are you sure? We added about 10 downlights in last minutes change and the electrician wants to charge extra for adding an extra circuit or something. Or may be, downlights are a different kind of beast compared to power points? Australian Standartds 16Mar 27, 2008 6:45 pm Installation Inspector,
AS3018 revision I have is 3018:2001 obtained mid 07 (just checked on SAI site and it appears it is still current - ie there is no update yet to reflect new 08 version of AS3000 !?). I believe the restriction on number of points per circuit from section 6.1 relates to socket outlets (powerpoints), and it is lighting points that are unlimited. However both socket outlets and lighting points seem to affect maximum demand calculations. ... However, I am certainly not an electrician or an expert on this and so my reading of the Standards could be wrong. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 17Mar 27, 2008 8:24 pm ahuang Eager Years ago there used to be restrictions with the number of power points per circuit, but to my knowledge nowadays there is no limit. No limit? Are you sure? Yes, I am sure too. The "number of points" rule was dropped around the time I was doing the AS3000 subject at TAFE for my appenticeship about 13 years ago. Quote: We added about 10 downlights in last minutes change and the electrician wants to charge extra for adding an extra circuit or something. Or may be, downlights are a different kind of beast compared to power points? The addition of another circuit could've been for a number of reasons, such as: 1. the number of lights already installed when all turned on at the same time might've been over or close to the limit of the circuit breaker used to protect that circuit. 2. For convenience that if you were to add more lights (external lights for example) at a later stage, there would already be a circuit there to connect into (it's always easier to add a new circuit during the building stage rather than afterwards). 3. The electrician only needs to comply with AS3000 as a minimum requirement; some older contractors still apply the older rules when it comes to "number of points" to err on the side of caution/safety and it benefits the customer in the long term. Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 18Mar 27, 2008 8:57 pm Hey a little thing if you clone a power point directly (as in have the holes directly behind each other) it can effect the soundproofing of the wall as there will be a hole with no insulation going from one room to another...
Just something to keep inmind if your cloning points between living areas and bedrooms! Re: "Cloning" double power point, is it legal and safe 20Mar 28, 2008 11:22 am Our standard plan has 2 lighting circuit, 2 power circuits. The electrician told us that each power circuit can have up to 15 power points, and each light circuit have up to 20 light points.
So we can have total 30 power points and 40 light points from builder standards. Everything over, it will be an addition $230 circuit. We just have 2 more power points over the limit, so we need to have paid an addition circuit. I just wonder to removed the extract 2 power points or add the additional circuit Block of two storey townhouses requires painting on the roof. A brick parapet wall separates each unit and extends above the tiled roof. The parapet walls require sealing… 0 3502 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Hi All, We have a fall from road to garage front. But we cannot put a drain/grate because no discharge point put by the builder. Now they complain not enough space for… 0 9242 Hi, I have this sewer inspection point sitting in an odd spot in the rear of my yard: https://imgur.com/ghLI98q What I'd like to do is put a firepit in that corner of… 0 6525 |