Venturai's build - Ultimate St Marks HBC, Banksia Grove WA

Yeah I like the mugs, they're not elegant or fancy or anything, but they're practical. I'll be honest though, we have like a hundred mugs already, and that little two-pack of toilet paper would cost all of 50 cents in the shops. The package was better than nothing, but only just.

The one remaining item waiting to be fixed from our inspection was straightening up the gas hotplate knobs, and we had a guy come round today to do that, but the silicon they'd used to fill up the gap on the bench prevented him being able to remove it to straighten a bent pipe underneath. We had a crap tradie out to do our job, from the sounds of things, and he bent the pipe in there pretty bad and didn't notice (or care) that it'd bent the knobs.

We had to call maintenance to get someone from Homebuyers out to take care of it, but I imagine being in for quite a long wait with that one. We can still use all of the knobs no problems, which is just as well, because if we couldn't, I wouldn't hang up the phone without having been given a time and date for a fix.



It's all good. Despite our adsl cutting out early this morning, Beth recently upgraded to a nice new phone plan, she got an iphone 4s with 2gig of data. It's a neat little device, you set it up, plug it into a usb port, and it sends the internet to that computer.

It's slow, and with only 2 gig of data we can't do anything approaching what we were doing before, but at least we're online, so for now, at least my hands have stopped shaking

So Venturai have you moved in ???

We certainly have mate. We did the move back on Tuesday 14th Feb, after having gotten the keys back on Thursday 9th.

Unfortunately because the internet situation here is so dead, I haven't really been able to update this thread. I've had to use Beth's iPhone to serve me up the internet, but she's with Vodafone, and their service is shaky, to put it mildly. On average, it can take anywhere from 15 minutes to half an hour just to load up one page, and half the time Firefox kicks out "can't find server" error messages.

The only reason I'm able to respond now is because her phone has established a 3G connection, and even though it won't last, it's given me an opportunity to update our situation. I still can't do anything more substantial, like uploading pictures. That would take forever.

Anyway, I'll start with the good stuff - the house is great. We love it. The ensuite shower is huge, and there's not a lot of water pressure, but we like that one of us can turn on a tap or flush the loo without the other experiencing any loss while in the shower. My theatre is coming along nicely - I need to paint, at some stage, and I'd like to get the side and rear speakers on shelves at some point (which will mean having to do something about the room's back door), but it's off to a great, great start. There's just something about a 1080p 140' screen that just floats my boat! Having a garage is never going to get old, and while I'm at it, neither is having two toilets.

That said, it's not all good...

The Fuze Connect situation is a joke. We applied a week ago, and just recently learned that they haven't even laid the cable in our street yet. Granted, we're not on a main street, but still. We paid our $500+ to have our home wired, just like everyone else in the neighbourhood. They've been laughing all the way to the bank. I think we're looking at weeks, if not months, and the next time they call, I'm going to see if we can just bin our application and go on our way without them billing us. We're getting absolutely nowhere.

While I do like the local neighbourhood, the long drive is a pain. Not just to work, I mean, I was expecting that, but we don't like that Woolworths at Carramar shops on Joondalup drive enough for us to be willing to drive further to not have to shop there, and it's a real nuisance that there's no local petrol station.

So yeah, in a nutshell, the house is great, and the neighbourhood is great, but Banksia Grove aren't meeting us halfway, and Fuze Connect really suck! Everything's pretty much as we were expecting then

Just out of curiosity, have you moved in aswell? Beth wants me to ask if your house is next door to a house with a blue render out front, because we've passed that area a couple of times and she has a hunch that's where you are.

Wow can't believe how quickly you got organised and moved! I guess you wouldn't want to be paying rent and having an empty house sitting there for too long. Have you started any work on the house yet? once you start it never seems to stop. I'm envious of you having flooring in before you got the keys, but I'm still also glad we got that ourselves to get exactly what we wanted - I think it would have been more limited with the builder.

We are using a vivid wireless modem which drops out reasonably often, but it's enough to get us by. Our fuze is being connected this week. I can't believe your street isn't wired in yet - that is terrible. Have you spoken to banksia grove about it? If you call Mary at the sales office she can put you in touch with Candice and the project manager (i forget his name) - it could cause you some headaches with getting it under the paving you've already laid etc. From what fuze told me tough, if that has to be ripped up it is at Banksia Grove's expense because it should have been cabled in prior.

Yeah I think the weaving roads around the estate make it feel like a longer drive. It is a bit of a way to the local shops, but we'll have our own shopping centre... one day... I'm probably not feeling it as bad as you because I've moved from Joondalup so was already pretty far from work (in the city).

Glad your settling in - just have to remember that the advantage is you have this great brand new house of your own.

Good luck with fuze... let me know how you go

Yeah we didn't waste any time. We actually handed in our notice to the landlord of our rental property the afternoon after having had our first inspection. That's how much I was ready to get going with all of this

We haven't started work on the house as such yet, aside from having had our split-system installed. I'm ready and willing to paint my theatre though, but because our finances got stretched pretty tight I'm going to wait a month or two for that one. Like it was with us doing the move, however, that would also be a labour of love.

As far as Fuze goes, we got some really good news from them. They are laying the cabling in our street this week, and, even better... they've upgraded all of their Banksia Grove plans. Quite considerably, I might add. Check out their website, the changes are already in effect. Because of this, we have upgraded from their $60 a month plan to $80 a month, and with that we get 100gig peak and 100gig off-peak. This pretty much mirrors the iiNet adsl plan we were on in the old place, and really floats our boat.

I'm still ok with the drive - for now, that is. Time will tell on that one, but I'm doing just shy of 100k's a day. Will see how long I can last

Well... we're online with Fuze Connect, and are actually getting speeds that dwarf our old adsl connection with iiNet. Hopefully it'll prove itself reliable, but anyway... here's three more photos:





The top two are of my theatre room, while the bottom one is our dining room setup. There's still half a dozen things I want to do in my theatre, but even so, it's already pretty good. That's not a real screen, of course, I just project straight onto the wall and have taped black wrapping paper around the outside as a border. It'll definitely suffice for now though, and I really like getting ooooh's and aaaah's from those that are seeing it for the first time.

As far as unpacking goes, there's still quite a bit of work left for us to do in the spare bedroom and the living room, but we're getting there. We have a long weekend here in Perth, which gives us plenty of time to get cracking on that

What a painfull read that was.

As a builder myself, we tend to keep away from these sites as no matter what we do, no matter what we say, we are always in the wrong.

I was searching something completely different on google and for some reason, a link showed up to this thread. Curiosity killed the cat and i read from start to finish.

Basically, all the way through you have bagged the builder, yet you are happy with your home?

Here are some things you should know, and hopefully others reading can take note of what is 'normal' in the industry.

Sales Reps.
Unfortunately, they are all the same. Doesnt matter if they are selling a coffee machine, or a million doller property. The amount of flack us supervisors recieve due to reps is unbelieveable. As the last point of call, we cop it.

Bricks.
The joins you are refering to, the 'perps' do not need to be filled. As mentioned having a slight gap (10mm or so) is a good thing. When the plasterer is pushing on his float (grey), this pushes into the gaps which creates a good key. Basically, its holding onto the wall better. Having tiny gaps is not as good, but in reality, its not going to make a difference as a brick is not 100% smooth. Your mobile phone gap is not a problem. Why the gap is so big, who knows - but it will not cause problems. It just means the plasterer has to apply more mud.

Vanadium staining.
What you read is correct. Cleaning it, well, i tell my clients that it if you can see it, its in its final stages and should dissapear in time. Winter will take longer due to the rain and cold conditions. Adding bleach is a bandaid solution. You are putting liquid back into the bricks. Ive had full single leaf walls (garage, facing the weather) that have been completely green. It can be removed by doing a maxi wash, but this is a) a big cost, and b) its harsh on the bricks. If a client requested a maxi for a few odd sill bricks, i would say no.

Look at it from a business point of view. If i fix yours, then i have to fix the others - multiply that by 'say' 1000 homes a year and it becomes a LARGE cost. Many first homeowner companys are trying to keep costs down. If a builder spends $400 per job and does a 1000 jobs a year, thats 400k....

Build times.
Some trades work in pairs, others work in groups. Build times vary due to this. A good site manager will have his trades moving efficiently from job to job which means that by the time say a brickie is finished, the roof carp will be there within a couple of days - this doesnt always happen. Times blow out (weather, material shortages, problems, sickness). Just because job a. is ahead of yours, doesnt mean the supervisor doesnt know what he is doing - the chances are, its probably the same supervisor, and more then likely the same trades going from job to job.

Nothing happened over Xmas.
Im sorry, are trades not allowed to have a holiday?
Trades do not get holidays, sick days or RDO's. You dont work, you dont get paid. Simple. Many suppliers shut down just before xmas, and many dont return until a couple of weeks after newyears. Cant build you house if we cant get materials - not the builders fault !

Cleaning.
We do BUILDERS cleans. This means the house is free from rubbish, rubble and grime. Glass and frames are cleaned as are tiles etc. Your standard of cleaning maybe different to mine, and different again to the next person.


Give the builders a break. The company is only as good as their last house, and word is the best method of sales. No company wants to build a poor product as it reflects bad on them, and dont forget the poor site managers. They are doing a job and 99% of them have pride in what they do.

Coming on here and reading some of the uneducated ramblings (not trying to be rude here, but we know our job just like you know yours and you wouldnt like it if i told you how to do it) hurt. Its hard work out there for the trades, its hard work out there for the poor bloody site manager. Running 30odd jobs all in different stages of construction is hard enough without a client losing his / her mind over a missing powerpoint. Sure, let the CLO know, it will get passed on, and it will be fixed in due time. RELAX !

We are people too, treat us how you would like to be treated yourself. I dont come to work everyday to cop a mouthfull from clients. I just want to earn a wage, just like you.

Oh yeh, please show up to your meetings, ontime. Nothing more disrespectfull then a client who doesnt show up. Thats over an hour of my time you have just wasted and no doublt i have half a dozen calls i now have to return

Im not coming on here just to throw it back to the clients, here is some rough, but usefull information. Dates are ROUGH only

slab to bricks on site - 1 week
bricks to plate high - depends on team. two man say 3.5 weeks, big gang just under two
Roof frame - 1 week for normal team
Roof cover - 1 week (elec / plumbing chases plus tiling / sheeting)
plaster float - 1 week
ceilings - 1 week
plaster set - 1 week

slab to lockup works out to be about two months

lockup to tiler - 1 week
tiler - 1 week (more if you have main floor tiling)

The below generally take one day, but we give two just incase things blow out - Call this stage 2 weeks
elec / plumbing - 2 days
painter - 2 days
cleaner - 2 days (floor covering prep)
floor coverings and window coverings - 3 days (usually two on most cases)
Fitoffs - 2 days (basically maintenance - towel rings, door handles and filling holes here and there)
cleaner - 2 days (reclean)
final site clean - 2 days

I know many trades and supervisors that work, or have worked for homebuyers, and ill tell you right now, they are a very well respected builder - even for myself, part of the competition, they do a DAMN good job and have high morals and principals. The guys cop an absolute flogging from management to ensure the product they deliver is a good one. That is why they are probably the best in the business for their market.

Dont let one or two employee's spoil the overall taste of a company, regardless of who they are

Also, remember, your building a first homebuyer property and not a zorzi. As far as materials, inclusions and size go - you get what you pay for - be realistic

I realise it may not seem to make a lot of sense, but for what it's worth, at the end of the day we got a house we're happy with.

Allow me to clear a few things up though. For starters, those of you who work in this industry do this all the time. For us, and for many others, it was a first. A fabulous learning experience, to be sure, and there are definitely some things I would've done differently, but at the end of the day, I do love my house.

My point is, like so many others who have done this, I had no idea what "normal" was. We were learning as we went along. Had I known that some builders consider leaving holes in the walls a bonus when it comes time to applying the float, for example, I'd probably not have complained about it. It sounded like a load of bollocks though, you understand, and it's not a practice anyone in this forum corroborated at the time.

Regardless, I'd have left it alone had the quality of the house across the road been the same as ours, but it was a night and day difference. If leaving holes and all that is such a good idea, why don't they all do it?



Our two weren't. The first guy was great, and his replacement, rubbish. We just assumed it was because the first guy got the commission for the sale, prior to jumping ship.



My heart bleeds. What, a customer drops $180k to have you build them a house and $400 to clean that crap off the bricks before handover is too much? Passing if it's not so bad or if the customer doesn't mind I can understand, but we had it everywhere, and the possibility of it happening was something that was never mentioned. To be honest, if it was, we'd probably have chosen a different brick, and dare I say, your ability to so easily trivialise it being all over a customer's house says a lot about how much pride you take in your work. I have a feeling you'd be a lot less tolerant if it were your own property.

Incidentally, at $180k per house, that builder doing 1000 jobs a year has just turned over $180 million. Suck it up.



It's the month and a half off before Christmas while the house across the street went from lock up to handover that sank our boat. Last time I had a holiday that long, I was back in high school.



That's comforting, but we have a little more invested in it than you do. I have a 30-year mortgage now, made probably the biggest investment of our lives, so communicating any problems we had was something we weren't exactly looking for permission to do. I realise that's all these things were, just mistakes, but if you spent $10 on a Whopper meal and they forgot your fries, you'd go back for them, right?



Thanks, but I know you're not talking to me now. On average, we would show up half an hour early, sit in the car until there was 10 minutes to go, go inside, and then wait anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes to be seen. Having to wait for people is one of my pet peeves, especially in this day and age when it's so easy to call ahead to let someone know that you're going to be late.



It's been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. Sometimes I would have heartily recommended Homebuyers, other times I would not.

The main reason we felt we couldn't, was because of the house across the street. And I realise it doesn't really mean anything, except that we were having a good time early on in the build comparing the two because we both always seemed to be at the same stage. Many a time we'd check out our house, be very pleased with the progress, and then go over there to see if they'd kept up with us. It was fantastic, and we joked about which would be finished first. The stage was set for a thrilling showdown...

And then we got absolutely obliterated. We went two weeks between visits somewhere between November to December, came back up for a visit all excited, and spent more time looking at the 'competition', because it took all of 30 seconds to realise that nothing had been done to our place. We spent several hundred thousand all in all, and that was the worst feeling ever... just so you know.

We've moved on now though, and we're happy. I have few regrets. There are two sides to every coin, and that's fine. For you it's just a job, that's cool. For us, it's a huge commitment, by far the biggest spend of our lives. Kinda want to make sure it's done well, you know?

I found rubicon's post to be quite disrespectful. MOST people that come on here, do so because they want to learn more about what is going on with their build, and what they can expect to happen (generally) going forward. Calling post on this forum "uneducated ramblings" is being disrespectful and is completely unhelpful. Aside from that, Venturai, and many of the rest of us, have learned quite a lot, through this thread and through the rest of the forum.

If you don't want to read these sites, then don't. The thing that bothered me the most about your post is that Venturai was not addressing his building company on here directly. He was sharing his experiences and seeking support and assurances. If he hadn't done it here as much as he did, he might've been hassling his builders far more often than he actually did.

I think that rubicon should respect the purpose of this site a little more before posting his own rant.

It's all good Caz, I appreciate that there are so often the two sides to every coin. The point I wanted to make was that we're all very heavily emotionally invested in all of this, because these are our homes and because of the really rather large sums of money we're spending. Telling the client to calm down is all well and good, but you have to appreciate that we're the ones spending the big bucks. The more you have riding on something, the more you want to ensure it's done correctly.

Anyway, here's a couple updated shots from out front:




The front landscaping had just been done when I snapped these shots, along with the front door security screen having just been installed. Looking really good, if you ask me.

Here's a more recent look at how my theatre room's looking:





The good news is that I've had shelving installed for the surrounds and the rear speakers, and it's all looking fabulous. The bad news is that one of the recliner seats has broken on one side, and will either need fixing or replacing. One step forward, two steps back!



Here's a shot of my wife's new shelving arrangement in the living room. I took the liberty of taking a shot of just this - if just because the rest of the living room is still a bit of a mess!

We've been in now for approaching a month and a half now, and it's weird, but it feels like we've been here for ages. Must admit though, we're really loving the place

Your place looks amazing mate street cred from the front is awesome!! I also love how builders dont realise that we are paying for this thing for almost half our life.. 20 years later they cant remember your house, you are still seeing the quality day in day out.

hi Venturai - did you get your crossove done privately. how much does it cost? any recommendation?

Hey CC, all I can recommend at this stage is that you do not go with who we went with. Our site supervisor recommended a guy, Darren, who did the job just fine, but he won't give us the receipt that we need to claim it for the shire rebate. We can claim for the purchase of the pavers just fine, which was two packs from Atlas Group located in Morley, but not the work that was done putting it all together. Eventually he just blocked our numbers, and we have neighbours in the same street who are also having trouble getting theirs.

It's all good though, we've been in for approaching 4 months now, and nothing can get us down! Of course, the moral of the story with that one is to always get the receipt before handing over the money! That said, two packs of pavers set us back about $515 delivered, and the job to have it done was about $350, if I remember correctly.

We feel like we've had more than our fair share of problems though, and my wife has been making regular calls to Homebuyers' maintenance division. The thing with the bent hotplate knobs went back and forth for a bit; we had a couple guys come out, one said the pipes were bent, another said they weren't. Eventually Electrolux agreed to replace the unit, which happened, and we felt relief it'd finally been taken care of. That is, until we received a letter from their lawyers claiming we owed them around $95. Apparently it was for a call-out fee, which they claimed they'd tried repeatedly to get us to pay, and that if we didn't do so within a week they'd be escalating. Yeah, if you can believe that. We called Homebuyers again, they said it was a warranty issue and that they'd fix it, and apologised on their behalf. I can guarantee this much, we're never dealing with Electrolux again!

Anyway, we were in for about half a month when the ensuite toilet blocked, apparently from sand in the pipes. That meant another call. Then my wife's garage key literally just fell apart and had to be replaced. A month or two later and we noticed the toilet in the main bathroom started leaking after having been used. Just recently, we've had to have the hot water system fixed, thanks to a problem with the unit's tempering valve. Nothing like getting up at 4:30am on a cold morning to go to work and getting barely lukewarm water.

It's all good, like I said, nothing can get us down, but I've lived in rental accomodations for ten times this long without having had half as many problems as we've had here. I just thought it'd be smooth sailing because it's new, but maybe with houses it doesn't work that way.

We're having an interesting problem with our ex-landlord too, which I'll share while I'm here. He said the gardens were fine on the day of the final inspection, but then didn't get back to us for two and a half months (despite repeated attempts on our part), at which time he is now claiming around $330 for garden-related expenses. We have an upcoming meeting with the Citizens Advice Bureau for some legal aid, but are prepared to go to court about this. I can handle his other claims, but he can't wait long enough for the gardens to grow back again and then expect his previous tenants to pay for it.

Oh yeah, and I'm sorry for all the pictures in this thread having gone down, but I'd been storing them on my private website, and my account for it just expired. I'll try to find another way of getting pictures up here, particularly after the upcoming 6 month maintenance when I can finally get my theatre painted. Can't wait for that one!

I have really enjoyed reading through your thread. We are just in the early stages of choosing Ult St Marks. Any words of wisdom on HBC? How is your house now

Wow mate, there's so much I could say to you

We've been in for just about a year now, and honestly, neither my wife nor I really have any regrets about the decision we made. I do wish we'd done it sooner, and I do wish we've been actively saving for a house all these years rather than having wasted a lot on god-knows-what.

But anyway, we're in now, and life is good.

So, you're just getting started, are you? Whereabouts are you? Only just signed on? Done pre-start?

We really like the Ultimate St Marks. You're free to make as many changes as you want to that plan though, so if you want something, fight for it. Don't take no for an answer when it comes to your sales rep. He's there to serve you, and my understanding is that he's earning a commission on your sale, so you make sure he works for it. Typically all they wanna do is just make a minor change and then call it a day, but don't settle for that. It's a huge investment on your part, and you'll be spending many years paying it off, so if you don't like something, change it until you do.

We had a few problems with the house along the way, as documented in my previous post, but nothing really drastic. HBC were great, really, they helped us out every time. Of course, we spent 400k, so I'd have been really quite annoyed if they hadn't. They were pretty good though, so much so that, by the time we got to our six-month maintenance, most of it was spent fixing cornice cracking. There's a lot of that going around, apparently.

We're happy though mate. If you haven't done pre-start yet, boy you're in for a treat. Lemme know where you're at, and feel free to ask as many questions as you like