Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 19, 2011 11:07 pm Hi all, We're new here... we bought a block last year, had plans drawn up, and are about to submit into council. As part of this final piece of work, we've had to get a bush fire assessment completed. This is where we're stuck. It turns out we're in the highest risk area - BAL FZ (or Bushfire Assessment Level - Flame Zone). All the lower BAL risk ratings specify what you need to do [certain types of glass, gutter guards, non combustible materials etc], however the FZ rating means you have to develop what they call an "alternate solution". There are no real guidelines - so are at a loss as to where to turn. Anyone successfully built in the Flame Zone? We'd love to hear your stories. All/any assistance would be greatly appreciated! Regards Simon & Jo Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 2Aug 20, 2011 12:10 am I've been googling [as one does]... found these fire curtains which seem to be more for commercial use. Might give them both a buzz to see if they do residential. http://www.coopersfire.com.au http://www.smokecontrol.com.au/ Fire shutters are way too pricey - one quote was $2.5K for 1 window that was 500mmx600mm [yikes!]. I've also heard that sprinkler systems may be an option, but hasn't been confirmed yet. I'll keep you all updated - in the meantime, if anyone has had experience with these kinds of products, I would LOVE to hear from you! Simon Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 3Aug 20, 2011 12:59 am Surely they would specify some minimum requirements for "alternate solutions". The council should be able to supply you with more details than that. If you don't mind me asking, what area are you building in? Personally my alternate solution would be to grab my dogs and get the **** out of there before we got burnt Success is the result of good judgment, good judgment is the result of experience, and experience is often the result of bad judgment! Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 4Aug 20, 2011 1:15 am Hi Simon, You can try: http://www.wildfireprotection.com.au I know they provide fire curtains for Flame Zone which are cheaper than shutters, although still unfortunately cost a fair bit. I got a quote from them about 9 months ago and indicative costs were $1200 for a 700x1100mm window and $2,450 for a 2400x2600mm window. Large stackers and bi-folds will obviously cost much more. Fortunately our rating came in at Bal-40 so we didn't have to use them. Good luck with your search! Kerdean Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 5Aug 22, 2011 3:04 pm I looked into this a few months back. We were originally rated a BAL-FZ. However I strongly disagreed with this and contacted our local CFA guys to come and have a look. The CFA officer met me onsite and discussed with me all the reasons why we could be downgraded to a BAL-40. I spoke with our builder and they had the land reassesed and downgraded. While I was looking into this I found a few sites that were helpful. Check out http://www.bal.net.au/BAL.pdf. Also try to read up about AS 3959-2009/Amdt 2-2011 Construction of buildings in bushfire-prone areas. Does this have any info about requirements? They estimate it will cost upwards of $60,000 to meet BAL-FZ requirements. Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 6Aug 22, 2011 4:31 pm AS3959 do recommend construction requirements. Main criteria are the system have to test to AS1530.8.2 or have FRL -/30/- or both. Can u downgrade the BAL by increasing APZ or shielding from other buildings? Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 7May 26, 2012 1:14 am So a quick update... it's been a while. We're currently at the pointy end of the council process [ie almost done]. In parallel, I'm in the process of getting quotes from various companies for windows that comply with BAL-FZ [SmokeControl and Paarhammer]. Interesting, I learnt that metal screens [with perforations no greater than 2mm in diameter] are acceptable on windows in lieu of shutters. I thought shutters were the only solution - but that is not the case. And that is only for any openable portion of windows - if they are fixed, you don't need either shutters or screens - just the 6mm toughened glass [with various seals and specific frames]. But I digress. Initial conversations from SmokeControl suggest we're looking up around $200k. I haven't seen what exactly that includes [actual quote next week], but I'm led to believe it's a mixed bag of fire curtains and toughened glass. Am yet to hear from Paarhammer, but should only be a few more weeks before they provide a quote. Both have been very helpful thus far. I'll post again once I have more details - this information is just to help others who are going through the BAL-FZ process. Cheers Simon [and Jo]. Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 8May 26, 2012 1:28 am Flatlined Surely they would specify some minimum requirements for "alternate solutions". The council should be able to supply you with more details than that. If you don't mind me asking, what area are you building in? Personally my alternate solution would be to grab my dogs and get the **** out of there before we got burnt Hi Flatlined, We're building in the Sutherland Shire [southern Sydney]. In terms of minimum requirements, noone really knows. There are products out there that work well, but may not have been specifically rated against BAL-FZ, so it comes down to the certifier to be happy with what has been proposed. For anyone about to go through this process, do not pay for a bushfire report. You can do your own assessment and submit that into council with your plans. Check your council website for the paperwork - it's about 4 or 5 pages from memory and explains everything you need to do to determine what BAL rating you are. Interestingly, in my experience, they still sent out the RFS person to do their own assessment of the block even though I did it myself. Bit of a waste of either mine or their time really. I also found out that any new subdivision in NSW cannot have any blocks that are classified BAL-FZ. So if you've purchased in a new estate that is classified bushfire prone land, the developer has to have mitigated the fire risk to ensure all blocks result in BAL-40 and below. I know of any example whereby someone submitted into council, the RFS rated it BAL-FZ, the owner challenged it, and got it downgraded to BAL-40. Kinda made me laugh as the trees hadn't moved.... lucky guy, as that reduced his costs immensely. Cheers Simon Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 9Jun 06, 2012 2:16 pm Thanks for the thread Simon. I am about to start building in Flame zone in Victoria. I will look forward to more posts from you to hopefully learn from your experiences. What is your external material for the build going to be? Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 10Jul 15, 2012 9:06 am Hi. I am going to be building in flame zone in the next 6 months. Have been investigating options. It seems that there is more info available now than when this thread started. Also, shutters seem to have come down in price. Has anyone used these guys? http://www.bushfirerollershutters.com.au/ they seem very cheap compared to what I have read above. I think if I use bal40 windows and these shutters I should be OK for fz rating. Does this sound right? I am also looking at www.modakboard.com.au Anyone had experience with it? Apparently it comes in a timber veneer for decking. When I asked my local supplier for a sample of the decking he had never heard of it but is going too find out. I'll keep you posted! Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 11Jul 15, 2012 1:29 pm simon&jo Flatlined For anyone about to go through this process, do not pay for a bushfire report. You can do your own assessment and submit that into council with your plans. Check your council website for the paperwork - it's about 4 or 5 pages from memory and explains everything you need to do to determine what BAL rating you are. Completely agree. I also did our bushfire report. I researched the RFS website, background documents on the RFS website and guides to assessment. Luckily I also had a copy of a bushfire report done for a neighbour (which I didn't think was very impressive). So I knocked it up and it passed Council and the RFS no problems. The good thing about doing it myself is that I then had the knowledge to communicate with the builder. We are only BAL 12.5, but another client with our builder (Zen Homes) is in the Flame Zone and has all the requirements (special roofing, fire rated glass etc). That poster is Ryan 1977 and she would know more about requirements for Flame Zone than me. I don't think the costs were outrageous... SunshineT's Build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34585 Designs start: 4/12/09 DA: 5/7/11 Demo: 22/12/11 Slab: 24/2/12 Keys: 31/8/12 Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 12Jul 16, 2012 3:02 am Hi, We are building in a Flame Zone, in the Hawkesbury area of outer Sydney. Our DA stipulates that all construction work must comply with section 9 (BAL FZ) Aus Standard AS3959- 2009. This standard is the minimum requirement. For those wondering how much extra meeting these requirements might cost I can tell you that the best (least expensive) option we found for roofing was Color steel Promatect 40 Bushfire roofing system. This is a board system which goes under the iron & totally covers the roof fascia & eaves with no gaps, then an insulation blanket with foil sarking on the top. This roof cost us about an extra $18k for a 2 storey house of approx 300m2, so a single storey house of the same size would be twice that I imagine. A photo of our house with this board can be seen on the Zen homes thread page 69 All our windows have to be 5mm toughened glass with steel screens to the opening windows. There is to be no exposed timber. All down pipes guttering etc must be metal, also have to have gutter guard. We did not have to have shutters on our windows or a sprinkler system, but this seems to have been an oversight by the council usually you must have at least one or the other. We also had to have 10,000 litres of water dedicated for fire fighting purposes. We are not on city water & had to have a 100,000 litre water tank (massive) I will submit this now as it is quite long and I don't want to lose what I have written so far. Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 13Jul 16, 2012 3:20 am Further to the above post I can't really say what the extra costs of the windows & screens were as they were included in our tender price from Zen Homes & not itemized. I could not say with any accuracy what the cost of shutters or sprinkler systems would be but we were told approx $10-$15k for a sprinkler set up for our size roof. If anybody knows of where to source a front entry door that meets FZ requirements please post on here, I would really like a timber or timber look door. We are hoping that a timber door with a steel screen security dooor will meet the standard but not sure. I don't want a prison door! Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 14Sep 20, 2012 6:16 pm Hi Ryan1977, all, Check our Paarhammer - they have windows and doors which have passed the FZ testing, and ironically are made of timber [ironbark hardwood]. Might want to check with your building certifier first that they are comfortable with you using a timber product [even though it meets the requirements, I've had feedback from the RFS that we still can't use timber - Go figure]. In terms of where we're at... we're still in council [since February this year] all due to some history on our block which we weren't aware of when purchasing it. Oh the joys of building. As an FYI on pricing... for those looking to build, to give you an idea on the difference between BAL40 and BALFZ, we had quotes done for our place:- BAL40 = $26K BALFZ = one quote for $180K, and another for $140K. Oh, and sprinkler systems are out of the question now... the RFS are becoming quite strict on this position. It just seems to be getting harder and harder these days. Can anyone dig me a bunker? Simon Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 15Sep 21, 2012 10:23 am Hi Simon, We are also building in FZ however we have designed our house so that most of the house 'shields' the rest. So we only have 1 side and a short section FZ and the rest has been down graded to BAL40. I assume you probably have your design already though! The standards do allow for use of timber externally assuming they are of certain timbers mainly red gum, black butt, ironbark etc that have practically zero combustability rating. Paarhammer use these i think, but they are beyond expensive! We have our planning through but are yet to get a price for the build, I am a bit nervous about this especially with your quotes above! I really just can't understand the price hike for FZ? Do you think most of it was in the windows? Can I ask what your external material for your build will be? Cheers, K Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 16Sep 21, 2012 11:05 am Those quotes for building in a fire zone are ridiculous, did they itemize the extra costs? I wonder if builders do not really know what they are in for & just quote a big figure to cover their arses. Ktotherose I am sure it is not the windows. Shutters can be expensive but usually would only be required on the side/s facing fire risk. Our front door situation was sorted, a BAL 40 door was acceptable as the front of the house was not facing the bush & was recessed. We built an FZ rated house (nearly finished) for approx $1100-$1200. per sq/m though we were not required to have shutters. For anyone interested we built with Zen Homes they are based in Glendenning NSW. Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 17Sep 21, 2012 11:12 am thats a great price! seems very reasonable for a flamezone ryan. I have heard that builders do up the price to cover their butts! Very unfair. I guess it is best to find a builder that is familiar with fire ratings and sympathetic. What windows did you end up useing Ryan? Re: Anyone built in the FLAME ZONE??!! 19Sep 21, 2012 11:15 am Ahh, that must be why your build was so cheap! The regs for windows are so strict now! Hi All, Running on the theme that every day is a school day, I just wanted to follow up yesterday's post with some pictures explaining how we are dropping the ceiling due… 95 280634 Hi , I'm currently going through this now within the Whitehorse council which has a similar set of restrictions. We're having to make compromises with our floor plan due… 3 23704 Yes it had a house on it. But Melbourne water only wanted something the original size of the existing house. We managed to fit a 45sq house on. 10 27613 |