Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Feb 01, 2011 11:01 am Hi all, After your wonderful advice again! Building the Lumeah with M?tr$con, house demolished, waiting a start date after the second soil test/survey. I know that some do go with an independent building inspection and some don't. I haven't decided on what to do yet, investigated a couple of the companies mentioned in some of the topics, however am still undecided and would like to know why you did/didn't go with the independent inspection. Also, what stages did you do? Thanks Re: Independent inspection or not? 2Feb 01, 2011 11:24 am we are getting one in, basically due to us feeling like we are loosing confidence in our SS. Things had been going well but we are having doubts and getting all sorts of questionable reasons. So better to have a trained eye go over things for you. We are regretting that we didnt do it from the start. Sure, its expensive - but so is the cost of the house Re: Independent inspection or not? 3Feb 01, 2011 2:03 pm Yeah it`s expensive between $400-500 a look. But you only need two. One just before your plasterboard goes on(after bricks,roof tiles, plumbing,elec have been done and one at PCI. It`s a small price to make sure your house(big price) is done correctly. Re: Independent inspection or not? 4Feb 01, 2011 2:18 pm I wouldn't bother wasting the money personally. There isn't much an independent inspector can do anyway. He/she can give you a list of a 1000 things that are wrong, but if the registered surveyor gives the green light, then the builder isn't required to action it. All you can then do is go to the building commission (in Vic, relevant authority interstate) and get the surveyors green light questioned. In reality the surveyor should be independent of the builder (although they are all contacted) and puts his own registration on the line if he approves illegal work. In saying that if you have the $500 and you want a piece of mind, go for it. Milesy Re: Independent inspection or not? 5Feb 02, 2011 12:11 pm Milesy Your in charge of the progress payments,the builder doesn`t get their money until the work/repairs as noted down by a inspector hired by you are completed to your or your inspectors sastisfaction. From reading posts on here it seems most builders/SS`s fear independant inspectors and even mentioning you might be employing one will get you a sastifactory job/repair. It`s like telling a car salesman you wish to have the NRMA inspect a used car(when they used to do it) before you buy it. Re: Independent inspection or not? 6Feb 02, 2011 2:27 pm Hi Phillshz, Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I have it on pretty good authority, & maybe its different between builders / states? But no where in any building contract I have read does it state that a stage is completed when you view it as completed to your standards. Each stage has a specific description to determine if its complete. eg. "Frame stage: the stage when a home's frame is completed and approved by a building surveyor." Not when you feel its completed. If you with hold money, thats fine, but you are in breach of your contract, not the builder. On top of that, you need to get your builders approval (with most volume builders especially) to even have an independent inspector walk onto the property. If you don't do that, then you are once again in breach of your contract. I'm not saying its a bad thing to get the work inspected. I'm just saying that legally the builder is not required to action it. (a note to that, is unless in the contact you agree to independent inspections). To take your NRMA example. Lets say you agree to buy a car. You sign all the paperwork & Contracts. You then get NRMA out to inspect the car. It doesn't matter about the results of the inspection. You have already agreed to purchase it. That is unless the sale is subject to the inspection (you would need to have that in the contract, just like independent inspections on a building contract). If the inspection of the car shows the car is actually unroadworthy (and you bought it with a RWC), then you have a legal leg to stand on. (you could go strait to the dealer and see what they will do) or you have to go to the LMCT authority or the RWC authority and put in a formal complaint against the dealer / RWC provider. Thats what I was saying above. You can get all the inspections in the world, but the builder would not have to act on them as the builder has had the construction approved by a registered inspector / surveyor already. If your inspector finds something that is illegal, then your only stance is to take it to the Building Commission (or relative state authority) and have the surveyors approval looked into. A surveyor would be stupid to approval illegal works as they loose their licence / massive fines. At some point you have to trust someone right? Its my personal choice not to have the building inspected, as its a waste of money. I put the trust into the builder when I signed the contracts. And then I pay insurance after that. If you want to get the property inspected, go for it, but $1000 - $2000 is a lot of money! Re: Independent inspection or not? 7Feb 02, 2011 3:44 pm I can see both sides of the story...personally I went with a building inspector mainly for piece of mind. I am not a builder myself and am not really sure what to look for. The advantage with an independant inspector is that they 'should' be fully aware of standards and tolerances in your state and can highlight things that do not fall within these guidelines. Sure the house is insured, but do you really want to have to get people in to fix something that would have been much easier to fix at construction time? Just my thoughts feel free to ignore as necassary... Re: Independent inspection or not? 8Feb 02, 2011 4:03 pm Same here .. we've opted for a building inspector for peace of mind as we live about 100 km's from where we are building and we won't be able to get up there as often as we would like. Re: Independent inspection or not? 9Feb 02, 2011 4:20 pm My reading of the standard HIA contract says that the progress payment becomes due when the works are complete to that stage. If there are defects then the stage isn't complete. I have managed many civil engineering contracts which are slightly different but...... If I had concerns but didn't want to blow things up too much I would ..Write a letter listing the defects and offering to pay a lessor amount (say 95%) than the progress certificate until all defects are attended to. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Independent inspection or not? 10Feb 03, 2011 1:42 pm bashworth My reading of the standard HIA contract says that the progress payment becomes due when the works are complete to that stage. If there are defects then the stage isn't complete. I have managed many civil engineering contracts which are slightly different but...... If I had concerns but didn't want to blow things up too much I would ..Write a letter listing the defects and offering to pay a lessor amount (say 95%) than the progress certificate until all defects are attended to. Hey Milesy, I think bashworth hits the nail on the head in regards to the HIA contract. A inspector will notice a defect much easier than you or i normally would and that would make the building stage incomplete/defective and therefore the builder is in breach of contract. You then respond by informing of siad defect and that you are withholding payment until it is completed. While technically you may indeed be in breach of contract by withholding payment, your are only doing so on your professional inspectors advice that the builder has breached the contract initally by building a (accidental) mistake/defect into your house. From speaking to others on this forum it does seem that builders generally fix up any agreed upon mistakes quickly once pointed out to them along the way. It`s much harder to have anything fixed up after you move in. As for the NRMA referance,you get the car (generally) checked after placing a holding deposit,if it fails you may either get your deposit back or allow the dealer to repair the car before you take ownership(nrma rechecks car). Dealers used to beat the NRMA by having the car checked over and patched up first and then checked by the NRMA,who couldn`t fault it at the time of inspection. It`s a bit harder to do that with a house It does come down to your personal choice. A car/house may indeed be fine but your paying for piece of mind. (banks after all make pest/building inspections mandatory on established homes for their own piece of mind) Re: Independent inspection or not? 11Feb 03, 2011 10:04 pm We had our inspector through today and it was a great exercise. He picked up a number of faults that I would have had no idea about. He took the time to explain to me what is and isnt acceptable. A few of the things we thought were faults were given the all clear but he was able to pick up things that we would have never known about. The way I look at it, it would have cost me many times more to have these things fixed after handover than what the inspection cost me Things that were picked up include scratches on several windows, guttering not painted, flashing missing from the roof, roof tiles out of alignment, bowed tiles, one beam on the alfresco area out of square and plaster that wasn’t within tolerance. One that I would have never realised was a defect, is that the builder needs to leave the yard in a way where water will run away from the house rather than towards it. I never would have even thought about this and would have assumed the land was my responsibility (I dont have his full report yet, but these are some of the things that were mentioned when we walked around) I would also highly recommend being onsite when the inspection is carried out, I really learnt a lot today and feel better prepared for my PCI next week Re: Independent inspection or not? 12Feb 15, 2011 9:15 pm We start building our house with PD in the coming months and im considering going with a building inspector. Im just not sure at what stages i should get the house checked at. Thoughts? I was thinking frame & pre handover. Re: Independent inspection or not? 14Mar 10, 2011 9:06 pm Any reason why you only went with two inspections instead of 3 Phillshz? Re: Independent inspection or not? 16Mar 11, 2011 4:50 pm Quote: builder would not have to act on them The builder has to fix defects if the Independent Building Inspector points out defects in relation to: - Australian Standards - Building Code of Australia - Manufacturer's installation instructions - Building Acts (e.g. in Victoria, they are: Building Act 1993, Domestic Building Contracts Act 1995, Building Regulations 2006). See the Building Comission Guide to Standards & Tolerances 2007 http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/re ... IDE_07.pdf page 09 Re: Independent inspection or not? 17Mar 11, 2011 7:42 pm the_milesy On top of that, you need to get your builders approval (with most volume builders especially) to even have an independent inspector walk onto the property. If you don't do that, then you are once again in breach of your contract. I'm not saying its a bad thing to get the work inspected. I'm just saying that legally the builder is not required to action it. (a note to that, is unless in the contact you agree to independent inspections). The above is really really bad advice - so please don't listen to it. First of all, you don't need builders approval to inspect your property. For most of the people on this forum they will be entering into a standard HIA building contract where the HBCA 1991 applies. As per clause 10 item (b) "The Owner or an authorised person as defined... shall be given access to the Site to carry out the relevant inspections..." You can and should inspect your site regularly, and your agents are allowed to enter the building site. To then state that the builder is not legally required to action any inspection is also incorrect in many ways. Building inspectors should list items to remedy that don't comply to the BCA or AS and all builders are required to comply and to rectify the works. Re: Independent inspection or not? 18Mar 11, 2011 8:05 pm I would 100% get an Independant Inspector to have a look at your house. If you want living proof that they are worth it read my blog (pictures are there to see). We are also unfortunately building with M3tr!con in Melbourne and have had nothing but dramas in regards to their workmanship. We were told at the start by them not to waste our money with Independent Inspectors but it is the best money we have ever spent. For instance. Slab: Our Inspector 10-15 defects ,ranging from steel not being tied at all, unlagged pipes running through footings, no crush rock around base. 0 defects found by their Inspector (later found out that stage was never inspected) Pre plaster: Our Inspector 28 defects, ranging from minor to major structural. Their Inspector 1 defect Final Inspection: Our Inspector 100+ defects (including my list), ranging from walls being 25mm out of tolerance to paint being too thin. : Their Inspector : Unknown Bashworth is spot on the money with his comments. A stage isn't completed whilst there are defects. We withheld payments several times and even put the job on hold several times until things were rectified. They have tried to bully us and use threats, but stand your ground and put everything in writing. It is always easier to have a trained professional on your side in case things go to court. Re: Independent inspection or not? 19Mar 13, 2011 7:54 am excitednewhomeowner Any reason why you only went with two inspections instead of 3 Phillshz? Yes there was a good reason for dropping one of the recommended inspections but it escapes me now unfortunately,other than saving $500 Basically the major inspections are just before gyprock goes in(to check frame,elec and plumbing) before it`s all covered up. And PCI obviously. I think the other one was to check the brick work but that can be done at frame inspect and fixed before gyprock goes in. Hope that helps Re: Independent inspection or not? 20Mar 13, 2011 8:12 am Yeah I'm planning on the same as Phills. I would of gotten one for slab, frame, etc, but I'm getting married in 3 weeks. Simply put, I can't afford an extra money right now. I can't see any glaring faults right now, so that will have to do for me until he comes in after bricks Land Deposit - 18/12/2009 Became a land Baron - 21/12/2010 Site Start - 27/1/2011 All moved in!! That is a really good attitude Akin to you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I do enjoy watching that tik tok inspector from Victoria but he does go a little… 12 81883 It is true that a builder can ignore your independent inspection report as it is not part of the contractual arrangement but that is stupid because he cannot avoid fixing… 9 46854 i would suggest nothing is unreasonable for PCI. we did all sorts, including checking the hot water, checking all the GPO's had power, testing that the showers were… 9 98678 |