Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jan 26, 2011 8:44 pm We've been struggling with the decision for our new house. Do we go with a project builder (Adenbrook) to build a modified version of one of their plans, or do we go with a completely custom architecturally-designed house? The main design issue for us is having upstairs living at a specific elevation to access views. This has created some challanges with levels, stairs and ceiling heights. Both the project builder and the architect have come up with solutions. No surprise to say that the architect-designed house is more expensive, but not prohibitively so. The main problem I think is that the living spaces are too small. Particularly the upstairs deck and dining room where the best views can be obtained. Of course these spaces could be increased in size, but that would compromise some design elements and increase costs further. It is a bold design with lots of character. The project home is larger (380m2 vs. 310m2) and cheaper ($80-$100k), but doesn't have the one-off appeal of the custom home. It does everything we need, lots of living space but is a little more boring and main-stream. The architect-designed house is "striking". What to do? Safe and cheap, or bold, challanging and a little more expensive? I'd love to hear feed-back from anyone curious to have a look at the plans. Project house: Ground & upper plans - http://flic.kr/p/9cJQmp Front & side elevation - http://flic.kr/p/9cJQrt Architect-designed house: Ground floor plan - http://flic.kr/p/9dijVJ Upper floor plan - http://flic.kr/p/9dfeai Front/rear elevations - http://flic.kr/p/9dijYQ Side elevations - http://flic.kr/p/9dfecP 3D views - http://flic.kr/p/9dfeek Hillcrest build at Wavell Heights - Adenbrook https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56663 Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 3Jan 26, 2011 9:08 pm You spend a lot more time in the house looking out than you spend on the outside looking at the house. If you are not happy with the interior space in the architect house that would be a major disadvantage. Although it may look "boring" a conventional look may make it easier to sell in the future. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 4Jan 26, 2011 9:18 pm I think the project builder home will still look great on the outside. To me the inside is what is more important, so long as the front isn't terrible. also going with something that has a 'wow' factor might only appeal to a smaller group of people in terms of resale down the track? Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 5Jan 26, 2011 9:29 pm Whilst I think the architectural one looks fabulous, I would definitely go with the project builder. With the extra 80-100K you could have some great upgrades to the interior and exterior, fully furnish your house and finish your gardens. Having that extra space will make a big difference also especially if you have kids. Architect vs. Project Builder 6Jan 27, 2011 3:25 am Oh geez, such a subjective question, it's such a personal decision. IF it were me, I would go the custom home. That design is fabulous! WHAT is not to love (other than lugging the grocery shopping up those stairs ?) A few things to consider: -street scape (would your custom design blend in, or look out of place?) -costings (are they accurate, and are you comparing apples with apples re: fittings and the final finish? I would find it hard to believe that your finishes would not be superior in your custom build.) - re-sale value (I'm no expert, but I would expect, and be prepared to pay more for a residence that had an architect's stamp so heavily on it. Others, please correct me if I'm on the wrong track here). -what is your heart telling you (since, your head has already determined the cost difference to be 'minimal')? For about five seconds, we were seriously considering building a 52sq PD, however, it never really felt right to me. As silly as this might sound, I could NOT picture myself living in that space. My husband could. Ditto for the kids (they still chant "Bondi 52" whenever the mood strikes them). However, I ALWAYS knew it wasn't for us, and a month later I am in disbelief that it was ever really a consideration. Do you mind me asking if your plans have been drawn by an 'in house' architect within a building company? Or have you approached an architectural firm independently? It strikes me that you would have already sunk a good deal of money into this project. Also, I was quite surprised by the relatively small difference in price. Well, I think it's small, I certainly would have expected a bigger jump in price. But hey, I'm not here perusing this forum because I'm an expert ! I'm very keen to read other people's responses to this, and especially to see which way the wind will blow for you. Good luck, and happy building! PS. What about a dumb waiter ? Architect vs. Project Builder 7Jan 27, 2011 3:30 am PS. It has also just occurred to me that your question is probably an odd one. How many people that go with a project builder get to even consider an architecturally designed home? Wow, that's a good problem you have there! Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 8Jan 27, 2011 7:23 am I love the architect designed plans but I find it hard to believe that the cost difference is only $100K. Has the build been costed properly - say by an estimator or quantity surveyor? Friends of mine built an architect designed house and the price ended up 3x what it was originally costed by the architect. The plans provided were also not detailed enough for their builder. My FIL who is a building designer says both of these things can be a common problem. What is the cost per sqm for each house? That should indicate whether the project builder is expensive or the architect unrealistic. Cheers C p.s I would also swap the WIR and ensuite on the architect plans or install excellent soundproofing on the adjoining bedroom walls. Never argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level & then beat you with experience - Dilbert View Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19733 Contract signed 14Sept Slab 30Sept Bricks laid 1Dec Lock up 26Feb Keys 10Jun Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 9Jan 27, 2011 7:53 am Luckily for me I have an architect friend who has his own practice, so the cost of having custom plans drawn up was not as expensive as you'd think. And likewise, the in-house draftsman for the project builder is also a friend so I was able to get a modified design without cost. I have had both plans costed, but I have had so many people warn me about cost blow-outs on custom builds that I am a bit hesitant to rely on the builder's quote. I have more faith in the project builder costings. Maybe it is not fair to say that the cost difference is minimal, but the additional cost could be justified for a plan that is something special. At this stage I am going with the project builder. The extra money can pay for better fittings, landscaping and maybe a pool. I love the idea of an architect-designed house, but I just don't think it is as practical. Thanks for the feedback everyone! Hillcrest build at Wavell Heights - Adenbrook https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56663 Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 10Jan 27, 2011 11:21 am To be truthfull after building 3 times before and being in the industry (scaffolding mind you) with alot of different contacts and builder mates the average price for a one storey turnkey slab on ground with above average inclusions is around $950 - $1000 per m/2 by the time it all washes out. This is with project and custom builder alike (comparing apples for apples) no matter who you talk to. On a 2 storey it is usually between $1000 - $1100 per m/2. By the time you get the end contract, along with all the upgrades and variations you'll se what I mean. This follows the rough rule that if you build a 300m2 single storey it will be around $280 - $300K and a double will be around $300 - $330k. Don't follow this as gospel but that is a very general and usually correct way to imagine the outcome. Architecturally stunning plans on the other hand can be quite a bit more pricey based on the added flair of the architect which can add dollars. PM me if you need any more advise (my opinion only of course) or the name of the company we have been dealing with. Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 11Jan 27, 2011 1:15 pm If it's only 100k more and you can afford it, then i would go for the Architect. That design is amazing, and its worth the extra money. The space, angles, and light that the plan creates make it a much more pleasent place to be, and if its a place you spend sigficant amounts of time, then the its a no brainer as far as I am concerned. Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 12Jan 27, 2011 4:31 pm andrew78m If it's only 100k more and you can afford it, then i would go for the Architect. That design is amazing, and its worth the extra money. The space, angles, and light that the plan creates make it a much more pleasent place to be, and if its a place you spend sigficant amounts of time, then the its a no brainer as far as I am concerned. Me too Andrew. No brainer all the way. We would LOVE to be in the enviable position of Hillcrest (that's me, being a green eyed monster). Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 14Jan 28, 2011 10:15 am We had the architect plans costed through 3 builders - the quotes ranged from $786k to $630k, although the lowest builder thought they could get it down to $580k with some plan modifications. I have my doubts - I think they'll just exclude stuff to get the contract over the line, we'll have to include them as variations later. The architect plan required further development anyway. We wanted a nice upstairs deck to get city views, we instead get a 3m x 1.5m balcony attached to a small dining room. Even the downstairs deck is not large enough for our table & chairs with room to walk around them. We'd have to develop the plan further (fees) and increase floor size (build costs) and it just doesn't seem worth it on the basis of the present quotes. Pity really, parts of the house I quite like. I think that the customised project builder design will still get us a very nice house at a cheaper (fixed) price. Leaves more money for nice fittings like 19mm hardwood floors & aircon! The draftsman there is a friend, he is looking after us with the estimators. Hillcrest build at Wavell Heights - Adenbrook https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56663 Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 15Jan 28, 2011 2:17 pm Hillcrest, it sounds as though you have thought this through very thoroughly and sensibly. It has not been an easy decision because there is a large element of trade-off. A page listing pros and cons would have entries on both sides, for both options. Generally speaking, the worst time when having to make any big decision in life is right before you commit to something. You will probably be nervous right up to the point of signing on the dotted line, but I bet you sleep just a bit easier that night! On another note, I am seriously coveting your plans. That house looks absolutely stunning (did I already say that ?). The external view is exactly what I would like to have for our place... I'm working on it! Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 16Jan 28, 2011 2:36 pm And another thing... I noticed on your plans that you have several west facing windows, and the architectural plans had shutters drawn in. Will you do something similar when you build? We live in a house at the moment that has a large expanse of glass facing due west, no shade structure either. Even gets too hot on a cold, but sunny winters afternoon. Hate, hate, hate it. Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 17Jan 28, 2011 2:51 pm we are going with a project builder who had a base cost of $230k for a 34sq home. We made lots of changes (including increasing the size of certains rooms) and took all the usual quality upgrades (stone benchtops etc) we also took some additional pricey upgrades (colorbond roof, solid timber stairs etc). In the end I am sitting on a price of $380k. Does not include fllooring/dway/ landscapes. I feel I should have gone the architect route myself given where I have ended up cost wise. I cant imagine it would have cost that much more and I would have something unique..or am I misguided? Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 18Jan 28, 2011 3:00 pm Tin Tin, that equates to just over $11K/sq - I WISH we could find a designer/builder who will do this for us, but it's just not realistic. I would totally relax if I were you, you have got exceptional value for money when you consider size and your quality finishes. Those extra costs that you list would still be extras on top of an architecturally designed residence. Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 19Jan 28, 2011 3:19 pm tintin we are going with a project builder who had a base cost of $230k for a 34sq home. We made lots of changes (including increasing the size of certains rooms) and took all the usual quality upgrades (stone benchtops etc) we also took some additional pricey upgrades (colorbond roof, solid timber stairs etc). In the end I am sitting on a price of $380k. Does not include fllooring/dway/ landscapes. I feel I should have gone the architect route myself given where I have ended up cost wise. I cant imagine it would have cost that much more and I would have something unique..or am I misguided? TinTin, We have made a lot of changes from the standard design offered by the project builder, and chosen expensive options (ducted air, paved drive, 19mm hardwood flooring, stone benches & vanities, etc). The final house size is 390m2, costing around $1,350 per sqm. This includes plenty of site works to get up to the height we require for views. The architect design is smaller at around 310m2, the cheapest quote we got was $630k which puts the price at $2,000 per sqm. Other builders quoted $2,100+. For a fully custom build I think you need to budget for somewhere around $1900 - $2000 per sqm. Some builders may get costs down a little by offering more standard sized windows & doors, lower spec flooring, no aircon or external works. You might be able to find a smaller project builder who does custom and one-off jobs, they might be able to find some cost savings. I don't think you'll get an archtiect design cheaper than a modified project builder design, but if the architect comes up with a more elegant or special design you could justify the extra cost. I guess it is a question of value. Hillcrest build at Wavell Heights - Adenbrook https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56663 Re: Architect vs. Project Builder 20Jan 28, 2011 4:55 pm We have a custom design by a package builder and have upgraded just about everything. Total cost works out at about $10,500 per square. Not only do we have a good price we have a fixed price build with a fixed finish date (if the build goes overtime we get $400 a week compo) by a reputable builder. My brother paid 3 times the price for an architectially designed build, it ran overtime and the price ballooned throughout the build. I reckon if you go the architect design have a cool $150,000 spare (that's a blow out of about 20% which maybe conservative). 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