Is this quality build ?

ben · Nov 27, 2007 12:55 am

Would like people's experience & opinion on window/brick finishing as shown below.

As built
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http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 026qq8.jpg

As drawn (contract)
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http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 029dj1.jpg

As displayed and sold. No gap !
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http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 020xp3.jpg

The builder told us that the gaps (just less than a brick high) will be covered with a piece of timber something that they commonly do, refusing to accept that a measurement has gone wrong somewhere. :roll:

Except this window, the alfresco, the slidedoor and the laundry door

all other openings have no gaps (as per the display home)

The builder is pressing to accept their work, as if we have no right :shock:

. Do we ?

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 5:28 am

there is no way if all of the other windows and the display house no gap that a mistake has not been made
it sounds like the window is to small in height
there are certain building tolerances that builders have to work to
and looking at the gap 60-70mm is way to big
tell the builder that you will be talking to an engineer about the building code tolerance and see what they say
if they call your bluff let me know and i will chase them up for you
i would be asking for the window to be replaced
dont back down with the builder its your house for life they look at it as a headache for 5 mins its your money being spent the more you crack the sh*** the more they will back down and fix there mistakes
if you do not accept it and stand your ground they wont get paid, builders want to get paid
i would never acept anything like that

Casa2 · Nov 27, 2007 8:32 am

One of the advantages of building with a builder that has a display home is that you have a reference. The builder should/must build to the same standard.

davinci, great to see your input and consideration.

mattwalker · Nov 27, 2007 9:09 am

ben,

take a tape measure with you and using the dimensions on the plans do a quick measure up.

The chippies have put the window in the wrong spot and the brickies have been unable to brick the final course above the window due to the height.

The good news is that the builder can fix this with a lintel (big metal strip) and some half height bricks.

The may even be able to move the window down 10-20mm if they remove the architraves from inside the house.

Either way the "piece of wood" would not be acceptable at all.

ausdesign · Nov 27, 2007 9:46 am

I think you'll find that the framers have set the opening at 545 [not to the bottom of the alum. reveal.]
Going by the display home pic. the window should be 20 odd mm lower.
From the builders perspective the easier remedy will be to raise the window to the underside of the steel lintel.
Incorporating a new lintel &' half' bricks will not work.

Added - to my knowledge the 'standards & tolerances' referred to do not cover this situation.

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 2:16 pm

every single aspect of construction wether it be a house a concrete slab, a paved pad, a pergola are governed by a national building code

ignorance on the builders part is no excuss

http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/ww ... ntSiteID=1 SECTION 3.5

in relation to minimum gap required between window and brickwork

i have spoken to the building commision tech. i am waiting on a call back with the specific tolerance and building code

if the window size is not to spec as per plan then it is wrong, the tolerance i will let you know about is in relation to the maximum deviation allowable to the plan spec

3timesbuilda · Nov 27, 2007 2:38 pm

davinci,

Looking at the document (Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007):

http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/resources/documents/S+T_GUIDE_07.pdf

In Section 8.x.x, Tolerances are discussed but materials used (to achieve these tolerances) are not specified. In other words, if the builder puts a piece ofwood over the gap and it becomes water tight, then they have complied.

Not saying I agree with it and it may be referred to elsewhere but I think it will likely turn out that provided the window is watertight, the builder can use their own solution.

matt,

Wouldn't the lintel have to go into the bricks at the side of the window for support - need to support the weight of all the bricks above. If you do this halfway up a side brick, you would need to cut into the brick. Does this description make sense? I think theonly option here is to put the half bricks at the bottom of the window.

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 2:53 pm

materal specs in regards to tolernace as the posted link says refers to the building code not the tolernace spec.
yes they can seal the gap with etc etc as stated in the link i posted
but they still have to be within the minimum spec. tolerance regardless
the builder can use there own solution as long as it complies with the codes

a 70 odd mm gap that deviates from the plan spec does not
the flushing material etc doe not come into it, the max gap allowable does

as i said i will post the max. tolerance , standard etc in regards to a building plan spec when i have them

if the gap was as per plan spec. then there is no issue but from the first post info provided it is not

Casa2 · Nov 27, 2007 3:07 pm

davinci

materal specs in regards to tolernace as the posted link says refers to the building code not the tolernace spec.
yes they can seal the gap with etc etc as stated in the link i posted
but they still have to be within the minimum spec. tolerance regardless
the builder can use there own solution as long as it complies with the codes

a 70 odd mm gap that deviates from the plan spec does not
the flushing material etc doe not come into it, the max gap allowable does

as i said i will post the max. tolerance , standard etc in regards to a building plan spec when i have them

if the gap was as per plan spec. then there is no issue but from the first post info provided it is not

davinci,

Can I say (again) how wonderful it is to have you on this forum. The efforts you put in are much appreciated.

Cheers,
Casa

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 4:07 pm

spoke to building commision
if the window is not as per plan spec. without structual justifacation then they would deam it to be a defect

you need to put in writing

why is the window not as per plan spec
why is the window diffrent to all other windows
why is the window diffrent to the display house
you want the window to be as per plan spec, to be the same as all the other windows and as per display home

the builder then has to respond in writing

they have to have a legitimate reason for it
if you are not satisfied with it call consumer affairs
they have a body called the bacv it is free of charge and is in relation to building disputes, before you take the next step of legal action, which probably wont be necesary for a simple widows balls up

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 4:08 pm

it is a window and not a door right?

ben · Nov 27, 2007 5:03 pm

davinci

it is a window and not a door right?

The photo is a bathroom window, bathtub is level to window. Does it matter ?
The house has other 3 gaps are above doors.

As casa says you are fantastic. really appreciate the effort you put in. Same goes to other members.

ausdesign · Nov 27, 2007 5:12 pm

Ben firstly check that the window size is the same size as on the window schedule.
Secondly check that the height of the window sill is the same dimension as shown on the drawings.

As for infills over the top of windows and doors it is not uncommon and it does not contravene either the BCA or Standards & Tolerances or any other building code.
The argument you may have is that it does not match the display home [which is what you assumed the finish and standard of your home would be]

Bud977 · Nov 27, 2007 5:53 pm

I would imagine that standard windows are sized to fit between a set number of courses of bricks.

Could it be that the mortar is a bit thick, resulting in a larger distance between the required courses of bricks, and therefore you get the gap?

davinci · Nov 27, 2007 6:58 pm

(As for infills over the top of windows and doors it is not uncommon and it does not contravene either the BCA or Standards & Tolerances or any other building code.
The argument you may have is that it does not match the display home [which is what you assumed the finish and standard of your home would be])
_________________
his argument has nothing to do with infills
uniformity and plan specs in regards to GAPS is
not once did i say infills contravine anything read the post correctly

display home matching is of a second recourse
plan spec and uniformaty as previously stated is

kasiakm · Nov 27, 2007 9:01 pm

Why don't you call the BSA in your area?
You can ask them. At the end of the day they are there to assist you.

I wonder how many people are checking BSA license history on BSA website. If the builder had any problems before the history will show it all.

What BSA does for the us, customers? BSA will inspect the house and make the list of things to be rectified. This will be noted on the builder's license history so builders are fixing things very quickly.

I would like to also remaind you that H***** had their license withdrawn due to the problems and they came back to QLD after few years under different name.

Cheers
kate

ben · Nov 27, 2007 10:31 pm

All of you have good points & we value them.

To us infill are meant to fix mistake and degrade the quality that they marketed to us (and others).

We made our purchase decision by what we see at the display home and in the contract drawing. (Apart from the size, some colour and additional sliding door our house is identical to the display home.) This home they position it among the top of their range so we would expect good quality.

From what I read from the responses you are all agree that a mistake is made somewhere. From our experience so far, the only way to make them fix things is by regulatory compliance and legal means.

So we would be very interested in people's success rate going down this path (espcially those with similar issue like ours) and in your opinion how strong our case is ? (you might have to discard builder's moral obligation in your assessment. :oops:

)
All inputs again will be appreciated.

PS: We have had other issues with this builder which we'll start topics on and seek your thoughts separately. So watch out for Ben.

ausdesign · Nov 28, 2007 6:54 am

Hard day at the office davinci.
I apologise for misreading and misunderstanding your reply. I was reading too much into Bens question instead of just looking at the gaps.
I've had this problem since I became left handed.

davinci · Nov 28, 2007 12:45 pm

did not intend to get heated, was not directed at you , the forum is for answers and also debate, my bad
i see red when builders etc dont do the right thing
being a landscaper and designer i quite often have to deal with and work around other peoples mistakes nothing gets me more annoyed
no offence was intended

melbman · Nov 28, 2007 1:59 pm

davinci

it is a window and not a door right?

Are the Tolerances different for windows and doors?