Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 05, 2008 2:10 pm I have had the experience from hell with my builder. Grab a coffee, this is long:
April 2007: We first put a block on hold in a development which belongs to our builder. We have to build one of their houses, no other builders allowed. We love the land, it is in a lovely area, very family friendly, it seems as though lots of other families have built in there too so lots of friends for the kids! The block we had on hold was actually lot 58, and when we were offered it, it was explained to us that it was being held up by the developers along with three neighbouring allotments, to sort out some engineering issues (the land is undulating, we figured they were sorting out retaining issues or something). The roads and kerbing were in place, and there were already three houses which had begun construction on our court. We were told the developers needed another two weeks before they could release the blocks back on to the list. May 2007: We’d heard nothing. It had been a month so I rang. We were told another fortnight. June 2007: Two more times we were told “another fortnight”. I was beginning to wonder what their definition of a fortnight was. July 2007: Finally we receive the call, the block was back on the list, however it was quickly followed by the news that it was to be for a split level house so we couldn’t have it. We decided we wanted to hold onto it anyway, and design a split level house we like. We were then told that it was also going to be benched for a small house only (they knew we wanted a bigger house), however we also would not let go of the hold. We had waited so long, and the story seemed very fishy. DH asked for evidence that the block required a small house only. They myteriously ended up offering us the adjoining allotment 59, (even nicer view, who were we to complain?), so we took it. They were kind enough to whack another $10.5K onto the price. DH complained and they came to the compromise that the price would include benching and retaining. We signed documents in mid July 2007. November 2007: Still waiting for the engineering report. We’d had our plans drawn up since signing four months prior, and that was about it! December 2007: The engineer rings and informs us the house needed to be split again, at the carport. We gave the go ahead, we just wanted to get the plans to council and start the whole thing already. Plans went to council soon after this phone call. February 2008: Plans are approved by council. March 2008: We are told by the builder that they needed to submit an amendment to council. We are not told the exact details however when I looked over the original submission it included plans which only had one split, not two. I think that the engineer did not fix his report before original submission (as we discussed with him in December), hence the amendment. This has not been confirmed by the builder, they have skirted the issue. April 2007: We receive approval for the amendment. We agree at this stage to settle on the land as the builder promises construction will start soon. We had already delayed settlement a few times due to the fact that they couldn’t tell us when we could expect to start building. June 2007: We ask for the final bill to be sent out, and along with it we get a $10K bill for dirt removal, and another $5K for footings. I thought our footings had already been sorted (they had already added another $10K to the original quote of $15K), but apparently not. We had a few weeks arguing with them regarding the dirt removal costs, as the benching they included in the price of the land, according to them, didn’t include dirt removal. After going through the contract, and several calls to consumer affairs, we are right and “benching” means the dirt is to be removed. Good news, but delays us another month. We notice out of interest, the slab on 58 went down (our original block). It was a large slab. Larger than ours, or pretty darn close…definitely not small. August 2008: They finally issue our construction date, 8/8/08! We officially enter construction phase from this date. Phew. September 2008: We receive a call from the sales consultant (great guy, been keeping in touch with our contract even well after we’ve left the “sales” stage), to let us know that a peg is missing from our site and it required resurveying. He rings back about a week or so later to say it’s all good now. Trenching begins in late Sept. October 2008: On the 1/10 we receive a phone call from the concrete guy. We meet him on site. The plumbing and plastic is down, reo is in place, everything is ready to pour however the slab is slightly further forward than it’s meant to be. He assured us all is good, it just required extra concrete, and it would be poured in the days following. After a week I was wondering why it had not been poured. I rang the office and they told me the 14th. When nothing happened I rang and was told the 15th. Same thing again, and was then told the 16th. It didn’t happen on the 16th either and was becoming a joke. DH rang the sales guy, who we always resort to when no-one else is listening, and he discovered it isn’t going to be poured at all and it’s being ripped up! I went up to the block and spoke to the concrete guy direct. He told me that the slab was never going to be poured, they’ve just been waiting for the builder to make a decision about whether it’s being ripped up or whether they are going to cough up for the extra concrete. The next week it was pulled up and redone. A week later the concrete finally went down. In the meantime I have been rather cranky. DH and I have been very patient to this point, but I am now wanting answers for their incompetence. I tried to find out via phone calls, but all I get is answering machines, answering services, and I have to wait 24 hours for someone with no clue to get back to me and then go away again to find out the answers and wait for them to get back to me again. I have given up on the phone calls for that reason and am now sending emails. DH has gone into the office and demanded answers, only to be met with “we don’t know, we’ll find out and get back to you”. Anyway, my last bout of emails was to find out the reasons for the latest slab drama. I asked what the problem was….was it the extra concrete? Was it the missing surveying peg? Why did it take so long to do? Why was I told several wrong dates? Anyway, they get back to me with no mention of an apology whatsoever, and that the surveying was the problem. I email back saying that we were made aware of this problem before trenching had even began, why wasn’t it fixed? I was then told that it required extra surveying, to confirm without a doubt that the slab was in the correct position. What the? I noticed three other slabs go down in this time, without the need for TLC surveying, my suspicion is it was never resurveyed however they are not answering that question …they also avoided my questions about why it took so long for them to make a decision about what to do, and the lot sat there for weeks, with no communication again, while they did their secretive building stuff (drinking coffee I think!). I asked a second time about whether the extra concrete was the problem. I was met with the answer “that was our problem to sort out”. What sort of answer is that? I asked for a personal meeting to go over our contract direct with the contract manager, and was told he is “in and out of the office quite a lot and is hard to get in contact with, however please feel free to contact me and I can try to liase with him when possible”. Usually by this stage we give up and just wait for the next mishap. However, I went through all of our paper work (of which there is a LOT!) and by chance, found the contract manager's direct email! So, this morning I forwarded the emails so far, highlighting my questions and the misguiding answers, along with my message of general unhappiness with the whole lot, and I want a personal meeting to go over all the woes we’ve had to date! Within an hour I hear back! No waiting for some useless middleman, no waiting days on end for one answer! Amazing! We are going in to see him personally when I can tee up a mutual time with DH, and I’m going to get me some answers. Here's the questions, if you've made it this far. I was going to ring a building consultant this week and go over our story....should I bother now or just wait and see what materialises out of this meeting? Is it also too late to be demanding answers about things which happened last year? Anything else I should be asking? I feel like I have been offered a golden opportunity to have a meeting with him after the last 18 months of dealing with their armour of plebs. Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 2Nov 05, 2008 3:34 pm OMG that is incredible!!
I cant believe you have survived all that. sorry I cant be of any help, but I do feel for you. I think this is a great opp for you to ask about everything. Dont hold back. You are entitled to know what is going on. I would also mention your disappointment in the way your land has been handled!! Good luck, let us know how you go. Idiots are fun, that's why there is one in every village! - Dr. House - Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 3Nov 05, 2008 5:59 pm Wow what a saga. Lots of deja vu there for me reading that, and my builder ended up going under (see the Marshall Baker Homes thread).
The biggest warning bell that's ringing for me after reading all that it is that they seem to think that telling ****** to you is an acceptable business practice. This kind of behaviour is likely to escalate if problems develop, particularly when your finish date looms (and possibly passes) and liquidated damages become a real possibility. Unfortunately, ****** means that they aren't worthy of your trust, and when there's no trust everything must be challenged, documented and confirmed as a fact. I think you're doing the right thing with regards to emails, phone calls are great when things are going well, but lack any form of audit trail when things go wrong. I would also suggest that you start an issues list. A favourite trick of our ex-builders was to only partially respond to a list of issues raised in an email, then degenerate the unanswered questions into several separate responses (when chased up), which had the effect of putting things out of context when not discussed as a whole. I started an issues list in a simple spreadsheet, which included : - Issue number - Date raised - Issue detail - Any responses from builder - Closure details and date. Don't delete issues as they are closed (just note them as closed), and if they don't respond to an issue just keep resending the issue log with reference to the issue number and that it has been open since ddmmyy. It's great for keeping focus on things, multiple meandering email threads are hard to manage. Try and write things in such a way that you'll get a response (even if it is incomplete). This proves that they have received your previous correspondence. I know that it's impossible to completely avoid phone calls, and that it is a pain but when possible you should diarise any call, listing date, time and what was discussed and/or agreed. If it's important enough, follow up with an email saying "just confirming our conversation on xxxxx, where we discussed yyyyyyy and agreed zzzzzzz" You mentioned about talking to a building consultant. I can't put this any more strongly YOU NEED TO ENGAGE AN EXPERT THAT IS INDEPENDENT OF YOUR BUILDER, PRONTO !!!!!! Unless of course you or someone you know is qualified to check the work that they've done, at stages like frame, pre plaster, lockup and handover. Even if things were going fabulously up until now, you simply can't trust the word of the people you are paying to say "yes we are properly doing what you are paying us to do". Are you paying these people a lot of money ? Comparable to life savings ? Think that a bit of risk management in the form of paying for qualified, independent oversight might not be such a bad idea ? On the topic of your upcoming meeting, I would suggest that version 1 of your issues list would be a great thing to bring along. Not only does it aid preparation, but it also introduces the list as a correspondence tool between you and your builder and gains legitimacy with his underlings the moment the contract manager accepts the list for followup. There's a heap more that I could say but one last tip is to get as matey as you can with their trades and suppliers. Just like you've found with the concretor, you can find out the uncensored golden truth from people who are involved with the company but not part of it. Just be selective about how you use and to whom you disclose the info, don't burn your source over a short term issue. Hope this helps, good luck with your meeting. Justin. Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 4Nov 05, 2008 7:43 pm Sorry to hear about your saga InfiniteLoop. It sounds like your builder/developer (same ppl sounds like?) was trying to cover something up with the Lot 58 caper I would definitely be asking for some answers there if you are meeting with a head honcho.
Justin - you and photogirl always have good quality posts and great advice. Hope that everything is going well with your house. Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 5Nov 05, 2008 9:00 pm Yikes - and I thought I had problems!!!!! What a terrible story and terrible treatment. I don't have any useful advice for you I'm afraid, just good thoughts that all will start to go right for you soon. Built a Clarendon 'Balmain' 2008 Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 6Nov 05, 2008 10:02 pm Thanks for your replies people.
Justin, your advice in invaluable I think. I have taken it all on board. We're starting up an issues database as a spin off your spreadsheet, we already have a diary with most phone call dates and other events documented. I have also written up a timeline, which I add to when the need arises. I have found this helps me follow the story from beginning to end, I often forget what drama happened where (there are so many now!). I'll take the lot to "the meeting". I rang my mum and got a number of someone she knows who is a building consultant. At least I know they aren't affiliated with the company in any way (yes I am skeptical!). As far as I know he can help with these issues and with the inspection of building at various stages. I hope he's not to $$$, we are getting strapped with two mortgages, especially as they are taking so long. Every month = another interest payment Justin I was sorry to hear about your problems It has put mine into perspective. It is horrible that this is meant to be a time of excitement and anticipation, not headaches and disappointment. It is scary that the way you described your ex building company's complaint handling: Quote: A favourite trick of our ex-builders was to only partially respond to a list of issues raised in an email, then degenerate the unanswered questions into several separate responses (when chased up), which had the effect of putting things out of context when not discussed as a whole. Is our builder to a 't'. I really have trouble seeing them go under, they've been established for a very long time, but gee I really have to wonder. They are the definition of capitalism I think, to the extreme. I suppose you don't get that filthy rich running an honest to goodness, wholesome business...it's cut throat all the way I think! Thanks again for your great input and words of support people. Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 7Nov 14, 2008 10:23 am Well we had our meeting.
I suspected that they'd have to get back to us with a few issues, and I was right. One of those being the issues regarding lot 58, and the other regarding the amendment to council. I am very interested to see what they have to say about lot 58. The problem with the length of time for the slab pour was kind of answered. The missing surveying peg, which they knew was missing well before they even started trenching, mysteriously appeared . So, instead of being diligent builders and checking that it was correctly positioned.....they assumed it was their lucky day and that the surveying fairies had come in the night , so they went about starting the slab. I was a bit put off by this, they never even stopped to think that some kid could have stuck it back in or something Anyway, it wasn't until all was ready for pouring that the concrete contractor noticed the problem. I am not sure why this problem then took a month to fix, with no communication and deceptive answers to boot. He said that it was labelled "urgent" , and at least acknowedged the crappy customer service by saying it's "unnacceptable". I have my database up and running now....I have quite a few issues in there now. Hopefully over the next few days I can mark a few off. Nothing has really been resolved, as I thought might be the case, but at least he is now aware of how badly our contract has been handled and he might take a little extra notice next time something goes awry (which I sincerely hope doesn't happen) as I think he felt a bit bad having to explain all the mishaps to us. I also have been told I can bypass their generic email/telephone divert and diffuse system, and talk directly with him in the future. [/i] Re: Vent about my building experience, LONG, with q's at the end 8Nov 14, 2008 8:06 pm That's a good result Tamsin, especially that you've made it past the pleb gatekeepers and are able to communicate directly with someone that has some authority. Keep the plebs in the loop though (at your discretion of course) as it's nice to have a good working relationship with everyone possible, and the more sources of info the better.
Congrats, hope you feel a bit vindicated and can rest a little easier, sounds like it's well deserved. This kind of stuff can fray the nerves a bit. Cheers, Justin. How do you remove one of these ceiling air con vents? And is it possible to disconnect the duct joined to the vent from inside the house, without going into the roof cavity? 0 5900 Minimum overhang into gutter must be 50mm, turn down tool should not split the sheet. it seems wrong tool for the profile was used, the flashing cannot slope back. Rib… 2 2092 Electrical just got back to me and said the most they can provide is a single power point on the Bedroom 1 side of that wall. After handover, your towel rail installer… 2 3815 |