Defects in Contract Drawings. Shoud we sign the contarct?

Antoxa · Oct 26, 2007 12:34 pm

ahuang

That means any changes you or builder wants to made after contract signed... If it's from you, you might have to pay extra excess fees. Read the contract carefully.

We have one change and have to pay $250 on top of the cost for changes, because wife wants to add some downlights, cancel alarm installation (we found a much cheaper one with more sensor and 2 control panels instead of 1) and door chime wiring (they only do wiring and charge hundred for that), in the end we still save some $.

The builder says that it is their standard procedure to put, for example, tiles selections and color selections into post contract variation document at no extra cost. Also all not structural changes can/will be added to the post contract variation at no extra cost if these changes were requested before contract is signed.

In my case the builder sugests to put notes to rectify the defects above in this post contract variation document.

This is the story that happend to me:

At the sales quotations appointment I requested 2400mm rear garage door. The sales person suggested to extend the garage by 1000mm to fit the door.

At tender appoint two items were included into the tender:
Structural Variations Section:
1) Provide approx 1000mm extension to right hand side of Garage ()
Garage variations:
4) Provide a 2100mm high x 2400mm wide colourbond roller door to the rear of the garage in lieu of standard brickwork and an 820mm wide door.

At contract appointment I noticed that the door became 2100mm wide and asked why. Then CSR pointed to the post contract variation item (which was added by themselves) that said that the door should be 2100mm as it did not fit the extended garage. Then I got dissapointed and asked them to put there 2400mm door as I requested initially and I was not interested in 2100mm wide door. Then CSR after some discussion with manager came back and said that there was only one way to put 2400mm door, to extend the garage by extra 400mm and it would cost me extra money. I agreed to extend the garage by extra 400mm.

This is what comes out of the contract appointment:
I am supposed to sign those faulty contract drawings (having 2100mm door, not centered window, etc.), contract documentaion containing tender items:
Structural Variations Section:
1) Provide approx 1000mm extension to right hand side of Garage ()
Garage variations:
4) Provide a 2100mm high x 2400mm wide colourbond roller door to the rear of the garage in lieu of standard brickwork and an 820mm wide door.

However there are contradictions:
The item 4 does not match the Contract Drawings and does not match the item 1 (as 1000mm is not enough).

Then I am supposed to sign a post contract variation document containing:
1) Refer to item 4 of Garage Variations Section in Fixed Price Tender Document and Sheet 3 of Contract Drawings dated 11/10/2007 - Clarification: Provide a 2100mm high x 2400mm wide colourbond roller door to the rear of the Garage and extend right hand side of Garage approx 400mm to suit.

This looks really ******* to me cause this item in the post contract variation referes to Garage Variation Section which actually has not changed BUT clarification referes to Structural Variation to extend the garage.

I think they should change contract rather than add it to post contract variation. Should they? It is really matter of structural variation rather than garage variation and if they do not change the drawings, faulty drawings will go to council. Am I right?

I hope what I have written here does make sense.
Thanks

ahuang · Oct 26, 2007 12:52 pm

Whatever they "said" is useless unless it's all written down...
You mentioned "at no extra cost" a few times, make sure it's written down either in email, fax or letters with with their company letterhead. We got hit on that before: the sales promised verbally skirting can be tagged at no extra cost, when we close to sign the contract we have to pay $400 for that as we have no proof...

Tile selection will only be no extra cost if you use the "standard" range of tiles and applied to "standard" area. Like we are allowed the $25/m2 ones and only one tile for surrounding walls in bathroom (except shower). We end up using $40/m2 and tile to the ceiling, so in the end paid around $6K extra.

Your garage wall changes would definitely cost you extra, make sure it's correct before signing the contract.

One other thing, my understanding is, it gets more complicate if your application was approved by council. If you made any changes to external appearance (say garage door colour, window location, ...etc) or thing that might impact BASIX (e.g. change timber flooring to tile or carpet, ...etc), you need to get council approval again.

Antoxa · Oct 26, 2007 1:25 pm

ahuang

Whatever they "said" is useless unless it's all written down...
You mentioned "at no extra cost" a few times, make sure it's written down either in email, fax or letters with with their company letterhead.

In my understanding "at no extra cost" means you don't pay for the fact that you change something, but you of course pay for the ugrade you want. In other words - no fees, no penalties, no charges if the post contract variation is signed before (or at the same time) the contract is signed.

I have got email from the builder that confirms that there will be no fees, no penalties, no charges if the post contract variation is signed before (or at the same time) the contract is signed.

What do you think, if I put my notes and initials against the defects on the drawings is it going to be enough to proceed with the contract or the defects should be rectified before signing?

I feel that I should seek leagal advice from a lawer.

VJ · Oct 26, 2007 2:06 pm

We had post-contract variations even after we signed the contract.
During contract signing though, we reviewed the contract and the plans and our CSR took note of the items that were incorrect or we decided to change.
He then went out to speak with the design and pricing team whether our changes can be accommodated. They said ok with all our changes and we signed the contract.
They then emailed us the variation for our checking. We decided to do some more upgrades/changes and they were more than willing to accommodate them by sending us another variation. Just recently, we noticed one heating duct was missing from the plans. We emailed it to our CSR and no issues with that.
So, our builder is very accommodating with post-contract variations as long as it won't have structural impact.
They didn't charge us variation fee.

It all depends on the builder. I know another builder who charges $1,000 if you decide to change anything, whether structural or just anything from your colour schedule, afte contract signing.

rldragon2003 · Oct 26, 2007 2:56 pm

ahuang

if the builder's license expired, legally they won't be allow to trade at all. It should be common sense for them to get it renewed. If you really worry about it, just ask your builder about that and ask them to send you the document when it's renewed. Shouldn't be big deal.

Thank you Alan, I just checked with department of fair trading, they have the same suggests as your. It should only takes few days to renew the license according to DFT.

Lyn · Oct 26, 2007 6:19 pm

Back to the original question. Don't sign the contract if your plans aren't right.

We have a plumbed tub in the garage. We requested through three lots of draft plans that it be put on a particular side of a window. Final plans showed it centred under the window. Salesperson whites out the tub and redraws it to the side where we want it.

Guess what? Salesperson didn't point out the plan change to the office (or the office didn't pass it on to the slab guys). We now have plumbing for a tub smack bang under the center of the window - looks ridiculous.

There were two other drafting issues, one that resulted in us making a post-contract change (very expensive), the other meant that we didn't get the kitchen design we wanted.

Check, recheck & don't sign until those drawings are perfect!!

Yak_Chat · Oct 26, 2007 6:34 pm

Basically you've got your answer.

A contract is a legal document stating who will do what and how - on both sides of the deal.

It is designed to protect both parties and if at anytime there is an issue with the project - then the court of law - if it goes that far - will read the contract and all its contents and make a judgment based on that document and it's referenced drawings.

Any word of mouth information - unless on tape recorder - will have very little impact.

So if it's not in the contract - how you want it to be - then don't sign it.

This is some pretty significant cash your talking about tying up here - so don't go by the - It'll be OK - they'll do what they say type of approach.

Steve

Casa2 · Oct 26, 2007 8:00 pm

I agree with Yak_Chat. What's in the contract is it and you're spending a lot of money.

Don't rush the start. Take your time to get everything right and you'll save time, money and frustraion in the long run.

Cheers,
Casa

Antoxa · Oct 26, 2007 9:21 pm

Yak_Chat

Basically you've got your answer.

A contract is a legal document stating who will do what and how - on both sides of the deal.

What about Post Contract Variation document? Should be treated as part of the contract??? It leagal document at all?

Should they put all specifications into one contract as this contract is not signed yet???

Casa2 · Oct 26, 2007 9:33 pm

Antoxa

Yak_Chat

Basically you've got your answer.

A contract is a legal document stating who will do what and how - on both sides of the deal.

What about Post Contract Variation document? Should be treated as part of the contract??? It leagal document at all?

Should they put all specifications into one contract as this contract is not signed yet???

No, a Post Contract Variation is not a fix for an incorrect contract. A variation is at the discretion of the builder. The sequence is as follows:
1) Customer puts in a request for a change
2) Builder considers change, costs it and if suitable submits this to the customer
3) Customer considers price and if suitable authorises it.

Both the customer and builder must agree to a Post Contract Variation. If they don't both agree the original contract remains unchanged.

Cheers,
Casa

Antoxa · Oct 29, 2007 9:00 am

Hi All,

I had a meeting with a lawyer. He advised to put notes on the defect drawings in red and put references to items in Post Contract Variation.

Also he said that Post Contract Variation is a part of a contract (kind of addition).