Defects in Contract Drawings. Shoud we sign the contarct?

Antoxa · Oct 25, 2007 11:07 pm

Hi All,

At contract appointment we found several defects in contract drawings. We were told that these defects will be rectified just before site start.
We did not sign the contract that day as I asked it to have read at home. So we were given 10 days to read it.

The question is : why the builder do not want to rectify the defects in this time, by the next contract appointment? Should we sign these defect drawings and the contract?

PS We were also told that these defects will be put into a post contract variation to be rectified before site start.

Has anyone been in such situation?

Thanks.

Casa2 · Oct 25, 2007 11:14 pm

Antoxa,

What is in the contract is what you agree to if you sign. If you see something wrong, get it fixed before you sign.

Cheers,
Casa

Adrian B · Oct 25, 2007 11:16 pm

Shoud you sign the contracts if there are erros in them?

hmmm

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Hope I am clear here

ahuang · Oct 25, 2007 11:20 pm

Are the mistakes major or minor, will there be big impact to $?

If it's minor I think as long as the problems are tracked, written down then it should be ok. Your builder is trying to save everyone some time by pushing things ahead. If they get it fixed now, they need the drafts person involved, you need to review/approve it,....etc. Time is money, like in our case, we waited until details checked and checked and confirmed before signing contract. We wasted at least 2 months of unnecessary time. In the time when construction started, we still found a few things we missed/forgotten and need to be rectified...

BUT, if it's some structure related, have big impact to $, or major one, you better get it resolved before signing contract.

donuts · Oct 25, 2007 11:22 pm

Agreed - don't sign!

We found some errors in our first drawings too, but they are going back to the draftsperson and we are not being asked to sign anything before they come back right.

Antoxa · Oct 25, 2007 11:32 pm

Guys, thanks for the replys.

Defects are:

1) Facade mouldings and render do not match an initial sketch.
2) Window in a faminly room is not centered. (However it was required to be centered)
3) Some power points are put in wrong places.
4) Garage is extended by 1000mm to fit 2400mm garage door to backyard. However only 2100mm door fits. So the garage needs to be extended extra 400mm.

Plus we wanted to upgrage floating vanity units to fixed ones. So the drawings should change.

Also, Currency Certificate is expired before the contract is signed. I feel it's wrong.

Adrian B · Oct 25, 2007 11:35 pm

If there is one thing that builders a really good at, it is using the contract to their advantage. This is not a dig, this is mere fact, and most people will atest to hearing the words "If it isnt in the contract, it wont be added", or "Well its not in the contrct, so starndard is what you get" or "Where does it say that in the contract".

It took the Big M 3 goes to get my name correct? Appart from insulting, it had legal and financial ramifications from the bank's perspective, yet I was told, Cant you just sign it anyway?"

hmm let me think about that

NO!!

If you get a letter from them, sayin ghtey will make changes as per your requests BEFORE you sign, you might be OK. We had an issue with the Garage doore being damaged. Due to the time of the year, a replacment door was not going to arrive before Xmas, So we requested, and were given written undertaken g that it would be repaired, hence we proceeded with steelemnt and final payment. All worked out fine, but the issue is that we were covered.

Again, this is not a dig directed at builders, it is mere thely the facts that builders will go via contracts, and any desputes will refer to the contract. The contract that you sign.

ahuang · Oct 25, 2007 11:37 pm

I would be quite concern about item 4, the others seems minor to me....

Adrian B · Oct 25, 2007 11:46 pm

Antoxa

Guys, thanks for the replys.

Defects are:

1) Facade mouldings and render do not match an initial sketch.
2) Window in a faminly room is not centered. (However it was required to be centered)
3) Some power points are put in wrong places.
4) Garage is extended by 1000mm to fit 2400mm garage door to backyard. However only 2100mm door fits. So the garage needs to be extended extra 400mm.

Plus we wanted to upgrage floating vanity units to fixed ones. So the drawings should change.

Also, Currency Certificate is expired before the contract is signed. I feel it's wrong.

Personnaly I would get these rectified.

Point one 1 Especially if you are paying extra for the board, If there are differnet types or styles, they will NOT replace them if the wrong ones are put in.

Point 2 - There could be structural issues. This should be identified. Remember the drawings that go in the physical contract do not see the light of day, the tradies get a printout of what is "on the system" I has to stop our tiler putting in a tiled splashback because the system drawings had tiles, despite the fact we put in writing, and paid for a glass splashback.

Point three - same as above. You will see on your electrical plan that theere are references to GPOs at different heights. This is again what the sparkie will work off.

Point Four - this is a fairly significant issue which may require structural redsign.

Based on what you said, I stand by the occasial no I said above.

Casa2 · Oct 25, 2007 11:52 pm

Why would the builder not just fix up the drawings and then submit these to you for signing? What reason was given?

Antoxa · Oct 25, 2007 11:55 pm

Casa2

Why would the builder not just fix up the drawings and then submit these to you for signing? What reason was given?

As far as I remember, they said it was their standard procedure to fix drawigns right before site start.

Casa2 · Oct 25, 2007 11:59 pm

Antoxa

Casa2

Why would the builder not just fix up the drawings and then submit these to you for signing? What reason was given?

As far as I remember, they said it was their standard procedure to fix drawigns right before site start.

Well, there you have it. There is no reason not to fix the contract before you sign.

Tell them it is your standard procedure not to sign a contract that is wrong.

off2theburbs · Oct 26, 2007 2:18 am

the first thing they will say later is well its not in the contract, you should have read the contract more carefully, you know the general along those lines. Don't sign it until its fixed

Cookiemonster · Oct 26, 2007 8:24 am

At out contract signing with Clarendon there was a couple of things wrong on the drawings. These were:

*Outdoor air-con unit located in the wrong place.
*2 outdoor taps missing.
*Bi-fold doors to study which we wanted removed.
*Gas heating outlet in the wrong spot.

Clarendon told us that these changes could be made after signing the contract without a problem and that we would be sent a copy of the final drawings before they were submitted for council approval.

Since my wife and I couldn't afford to take another day off work each we decided to sign the contract. Sure enough, the following week, we were sent out the changes that were required to the plans as a variation and we signed them off. We were then given a copy of the final plans with all problems taken care off. The plans are now ready for council submission.

So for small changes I don't see it being a problem. However, Antoxa, some of the defects in your contract drawings are quite significant as they are structural in nature. Your point 4 - the garage - being the major one. Surely your builder needs to build to the plans as approved by council.

Antoxa · Oct 26, 2007 9:20 am

Thanks to all for your replys.

There is one more question.

What is post contract variation?

Why does the builder put some stuff in this post contract variation, however the contract is not signed yet (only tender is signed). Isn't it better to have everything in the contract?

I guess that everything which is not in the contract will not be covered by insurance and the time (number of days to complete the building) does not apply to the post contract variations.

ahuang · Oct 26, 2007 11:04 am

That means any changes you or builder wants to made after contract signed... If it's from you, you might have to pay extra excess fees. Read the contract carefully.

We have one change and have to pay $250 on top of the cost for changes, because wife wants to add some downlights, cancel alarm installation (we found a much cheaper one with more sensor and 2 control panels instead of 1) and door chime wiring (they only do wiring and charge hundred for that), in the end we still save some $.

rldragon2003 · Oct 26, 2007 11:21 am

Just slight off the topic, when you review the contract, do you care about the builder license expired date? what happen after you sign the contract, then the builder license expired and not be renewed? In another word, the builder current license need to cover all the contract period, or just the date of contract signed?

ahuang · Oct 26, 2007 11:30 am

if the builder's license expired, legally they won't be allow to trade at all. It should be common sense for them to get it renewed. If you really worry about it, just ask your builder about that and ask them to send you the document when it's renewed. Shouldn't be big deal.

muzzman · Oct 26, 2007 11:41 am

Amongst other things, essentially a contract is there in case something goes wrong.

If you find later that they haven't done up the new drawings, and there's GPO's in the wrong place in your nice brand new house, then they have every right to say "it wasn't in the contract" and there won't be much you can do.

Would you rather rush it through now and be unsure, or would you rather wait an extra few days/weeks and have that assurety of it being in the contract?

Better to be safe than sorry right?

cynarion · Oct 26, 2007 11:42 am

This is what worries me the most--that our contract will have problems and we will be pushed into signing it without fixing the problems first. I certainly don't want to end up in a situation where we have the wrong things going on at our house and are powerless to do anything about it because "it's in the contract".

--Mike