Battleaxe property and Hornsby council...where do I start!

Hi all,

Newbie here, and I have few questions for people who have built on a battleaxe property and ideally have dealt with the HSC. As background info, we are looking at a battleaxe property to purchase which has already been DA approved. On the battleaxe property there is currently an existing small brick house and trees (both small and large, large gum trees (i think)) which have already been marked.

Our objective is to build 2 separate new homes on this property (requires demolishing the existing house and getting rid of those trees if council allows). We know we have to ask for approval from the HSC to approve a sub division so that two separate land titles can be issued.

For those people who have gone through a similar exercise can I please ask for tips/pointer on:
Where do I start to meet our objective?
The costs involved? (council costs, demolision cost, tree removal cost)
The time frame it will take to get a sub division approved?
What is the first thing I should do before speaking to a builder?

Many thanks everyone.
Jas

Hi Jas,

I'll be back later to answer some of your q's.....gotta get the kids soon, but I'm building on a battleaxe block in Southern Sydney.

If you have time, have you had a read of Greg's thread? viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29899

Is the block on a slope also?

Bel

We're in Pittwater Council so I hear your pain - believe me!
Our land was already subdivided by someone who originally wanted to build townhouses on it, fought council for 5 years then subdivided into 2 lots and sold with DA approved plans. All looked straight forward to us - I have since learned an awful lot about trees. We have two Angophoras causing MAJOR dramas as they are specifically native to our area. We also have a few other Eucalypts which don't affect our build due to their location, however their root zones span up to 9 metres from the tree so we are very lucky they are positioned at the back of our lot. We are removing a Blackbutt which is obviously an Australian native but not native to our area so council didn't even mention that one. My advise would be to first of all get an arborist report on all trees affecting your lot. Our most costly Angophora is actually on the neighbours property. We probably still would have gone ahead with our build if we'd done the report first but would have saved us over 6 months of redesigning. Also investigate what other reports you need to lodge with your application. You may need a geotech and bushfire which will also affect your build and may be worth considering prior to the subdivision.

Following that I'd call council and speak to a Duty Planner about your plans. They are generally very helpful. If it becomes logistically difficult there are a lot of companies who act as a liason in preparing DAs and lodging them with council. A lot of people use them in Pittwater particularly for renovations and they do expedite the approval process.

If you are planning on using a volume builder you need to have a really good idea of where you can site your house and all development controls for your area. If you are using a local builder they will know council regs a lot better.

Fingers crossed it all runs smoothly for you!
Mel.

Hi we're in WA and not dealing with you council but can help a little with sub-division in general.
First thing I'd suggest to do is to call council and check whether subdivision requirements need to be complied before construction or it can be carried out along the way.
for our property, we need to upgrade drive ways, need to upgrade fencing, knock down the existing shed, need to get new storage for the existing property and get new drive way.
Obviously you need to get license to knock down the existing property and trees, but that can be organised one you decide which builder to go with, they can organise that for you.
or you can organise demolition yourself and get it done in prior to deciding builder
then find out whether council will let you start building while the fencing is not done, water's not connected and etc that'll save you heaps of time.
for us they allowed us to carry out construction and requirements at the same time.
but if your council doesn't allow (as some do) then you need to get those requirements done first, say connect sewages, water, electricity, get new fences, dividing fences...etc
then you can only go and build your house.
that'd be the first call I'd make to council.

Hi Bel,
Very interesting read on the above thread.....
Well the propertly is on a slight slope.
Thanks in advance

Many thanks Saemiseon and Mel....much appreciated!

If you are borrowing funds against the property you will also have to ask the lender's permission to subdivide as it will change the valuation on the place.

Hi,

Before proceeding you need to check if your block will be affected by the Housing Strategy currently under assessment for the Hornsby Shire.

Links to the strategy can be found on the HSC website.

There are proposals to develop the crap out of the shire around Hornsby CBD, Asquith, Mount Colah etc.

3 - 5 - 8 and even 20 storey developments.

Assuming you havent purchased any property as yet.

I had a condition on the office and acceptance that if council did not approve my submition of the subdivision into two separate lots ( green titiles in WA, Dunno what you may call them over there ) then I could back out of the sale of the property as I didnt want it if I couldnt split it up.
Part of the application to council was a total site clearance which was granted so all trees were removed. Every council will be different with this.

There are some strange costs to factor in such as I paid $4500 to have a stay wire removed from a power pole so I could have a proper crossover, $6500 to the water corp for a sewer junction, ( that is just for permission I had to pay a plumber $ 1500 to do the actual work ) $1500 for a power box , $1000 in legal fees to state that I was going to put in a driveway after I built the rear block ( didint want to build it before it would have been destoyed by trucks )
Coupled with the surveyor $8000 and the Demo approx $13000 plus associated permits to DOLA, councils , title rego office etc , plus interest on the block price as all of this was paid for after I had the title approx $45K for the lot and it took 6 months. Council still has a caveat on the rear block so I cant sell it until I put in a fence ( which we intend to do when completed building ) I had to pay the lawers to set up the caveat and I will have to pay to have it removed ( and it is the Councils lawyer - not mine , had to use theirs. )

Then the fun started with the builder and what the council would allow us to build on the rear block.

Having said all that, Id do it again - remember if it was easy , everyone would be doin it.

Happy research and Good Luck

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I will be arranging a for a pre lodgement meeting with a town planner. Hope this is a good start prior meeting home builders.

Hopefully the meeting with the town planner will clarify all costs related to the sub division.

Cheers
Jason

Hi Jas,

Some really great advice that has already been given. I'd definitely do a report also on the trees, and start reading the councils view on trees in your area. We too, like Mel, would have saved about a year, if we knew the tree on our boundary had to be retained as it is "significant" and we are in a nature corridor. We had to come up with various redesigns which were major headaches.

Also you need to ask the question - why are they selling the block with a DA already approved. Were the costs involved to build the house far more than average? Did they want to sub divide but knocked back? Do you know if the block has services running to it? Does you have a copy of contour plans (shows you the slope of the land), services to the block, easements etc. If they have approved plans, there is a stack of info the real estate agent can get for you.

Some builders will not build on a battleaxe block (project home builders). Too much trouble in existing areas when they can complete easy builds in the newer estates. Are you thinking project home, or architect? Project home builders are also more likely to charge handling fees for the battleaxe.

Ummmm that's about all I can think of now, and meeting with a town planner is a great step forward.

There have been a few HSC builds on here. Have you read any of them?

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19345&p=245318&hilit=+hornsby+shire#p245318
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=24620&p=327858&hilit=+hornsby#p327858
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26347&hilit=+hornsby
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26804&p=362073&hilit=+hornsby#p362073

Bel

Oh if you think of more q's ask away!

Hey Bel,
I have been given the contour plans and an arborist report on all the trees. When I last visited the property the trees were all numbered. However on the arborist report I could not tell which trees were OK to remove. Then again not sure if an arborist report should stipulate this.

I have send those questions over to my real estate. See what they revert with.

I'm going over to see some home builders located at Bella vista and Homeworld on the w'kend, so should be interesting .....but from reading one of those threads, because the battleaxe property is located at the rear of a street front single storey dwelling, I think the council will only single storey homes. But there is no point speculating, as a town planner should bed this concern.

Those thread you suggested were a great read. The first thread was like reading a script of a GrandDesign show!

Thanks again Bel for your help.
Cheers
Jason

HiJason,

We purchased our home with DA under a similar scenario to yourself. Demolish existing dwelling, and construct two new detached homes... the catch however is that our block isn't large enough to sub-divide (Lake Macquarie City Council) and therefore we need to go down the path of strata title. Ultimately this isn't really a worry for us as each home will be totally independent as both have their own street frontages, no common grounds etc.

It may nonetheless be something else for you to look into with regards to your developement (should you make the purchase).

Dealing with Hornsby Council? May the force be with you. I hear it's almost as bad as Ku-ring-gai Council. Your pre-DA meeting should help to iron out any problems early on.

Judie

Pay full attention to the properties you are located near. I was located behind a hertiage property and it cost me 9 months of drama with Hornsby Council. They are very strict on trees, landscaped areas, Floor space ratio/site ratio etc.

The town planner idea is good, and he will hopefully include the surrounding properties in his report.

We purchased a subdivded block and one good thing for you to do is search the DA's on the HSC website, you will get an idea of how long a subdivision application took. It's all public info.

Good luck i think you are going to need it but in the end it will be worth it.

I think the key to dealing with the more particular councils around here is to educate yourself on the dcps and do your utmost to comply. They are not unreasonable they are just very strict. The people who fight council for 5 years are generally those who try to bend the rules too far. Council will allow for logical exceptions if the outcome of the dcp is still achieved. Pick your battle!

Everything is online, you just have to take the time to read it all.

Well today I had an over the phone meeting with the town planner at HSC (who had prior knowledge of the block). I have to say the meeting went extremely well. Got to admit the town planner was FAN BLOODY TAS TIC!
Towards the end of the meeting, I told her about the "council stigma". She mentioned they want to approve paper work that occupies their desk, but b/c people try to bend the rules, things get bit complicated and as a result application sget delayed. So for now mb@147a , I'm agreeing with you

It's still a long road ahead, but what I want to do to is keep close to this town planner and flag things as I go.

Here is what I have been told so far by the council to achieve my end result i.e. to have 2 beautiful homes in this battleaxe property:

1. Build a house compliant to NSW building code. This is crucial if you want quick approvals. I'll find out this w'kend precisely which builders can tick all the building code boxes.
2. Get in touch with the guys from Parks & Landscape team (these guys will decide which trees stay or go)
3. Get quotes for the cost of our driveway and stormwater drainage. Where is that yellow pages book?

At the end of the day I need to achieve the following:
Construction certification->Sub division certification->land dept for titles. (timeframe for just the 3 process - allow 6 months). Hopefully after receiving the land titles we can commence the houses.....

OOOAF! What a journey this is going to be....someone give me a drink

Thanks again guys all for your responses.

Cheers
Jas

Well done Jas And Yay for you - you have started your building journey A really great outcome so far, and good on the council town planner, giving you such informative advice.



Do you mean a "Complying development" to gain the quicker approval? I think most builders will do this, and you can modify most project homes to suit.


Great idea so you don't waste valuable time. You can design around the trees.



Will send you a pm



Oh you'll need plenty of those!

Congrats Jas! Bel

Hi Jas

Did you end up getting the properties built in the end? Have come across a similar scenario and curious how it all went for you (even tho it was a few years back)

Thx
Hum