What annoys Me

why do people go to the big home builders and spend their life savings on a production line piece of crap!! why dont they take pride in designing their own unique home with a quality local builder and have something special. sure the big companies have the wow factor with thier display homes, but only the niave know that what you see is not what you get. lets be honest, 90% of the trades that subby to the volume builders are duds!! and to those who have bought a house for $4500 a square and it has ended costing $13000, i have no sympathy. you have been sucked in by clever marketing!

Many of of us plebs who have built with volume builders are happy with our finished product. My friend used a local builder and has a lovely home. He quoted us $13,000 a square. Porter Davis built us a quality home we love for $7000 a square.
Do you design and make your own clothes? How about your car? Surely you must to avoid "production line pieces of crap!"

Stig,

Suggest you change the title mate. Its a little inflamatory and the language is not required either.

How about "What really annoys me?"

On the question.

I have built 50 squares for $350,000. At $13,000 a square that would equate to $650,000.

I don't want to spend that much to build a house like that in the are I live in.

I am building 6 townhouses in Martha Cove and spending $650,000 on 38 squares there but that is a very different market and I am not living in them merely making them for a market.

Either you have no concept of money and the value of it or your ideals are not in line with more than 75% of people who choose to go to volume builders to have the "dream" homes built.

I am entitled to an opinion of the quality of the construction of my home as I am paying for it.

When you buy a car would you accept Hyundai badges on a new Mercedes?

Then again maybe you would??

Matt

first off, im inthe industry, and see the difference every day! and fairness to the previous posts, a 50sq house is cheaper per sq to build than say a 12 sq. can you tell me what you actually got for $7000 per sq? not much in regards to finishing. if you did build 50 sq for $350,000 it would of been the bare basics, ala hyundai. because i do know the difference. also i am talking finished project, carpets, paths, drive, pergola, etc. i know what the volume builders charge, and its far from reasonable. they prey on the unknowing making a killing

You may well be in the industry, but I have done enough homework before choosing my builder that I also know what I am talking about. I am building 41 squares for around 390k. Add my own timber flooring to that and I am still on around 420-430 mark, which is 80-100k less than the cheapest builder's quote I got on a similar type house.

What kind of finish? 2.75m ceilings, our choice of category two granite bench tops and splashback in the kitchen, as well as in three bathrooms, quality taps and vinyl wrap kitchent, prewired speakers for 3 zones, wiring for downlights which I will install myself after handover - for free as my father in law is an electrician. SMEG appliances of my choice, refrigerated cooling and 5 star ducted hearing, solar hot water etc. I have an alarm, ducted vacuuming and video intercom prewired, as well as networking cabling. I can assure you I am not building a "Hyunday"

Sure, the driveway and landscaping isn't included but neither was it included by all the other builders I've spoken to.

I did want to design my own dream home, and my area did warrant it, but my budget did not. I found a design that had a perfect floor plan for what I wanted anyway, and the builder who was very flexible on the facade. The floor plan also guranteed an approval from the Bayside City council as it was specifically designed for it, which isn't easy for a two story home. So in my case, it made sense to go for the value that wasn't being matched by anyone else.

I actuall have a couple of friends who are builders/developers and they themselves admitted that this deal was very hard to beat.

So before you label everyone as dumb, you have to consider all the factors and understand that it's not alwasys black and white.

As far as the quality goes, I can't agree with you either. I had an independent inspection done on a pre-plaster stage, and the guy who did the inspection did find a number of relatively minor items which were promptly fixed with no arguments. I can tell you a number of stories where small builders built homes and when water appeared to get under the timber floor and ruined it, those builders were no where to be foud, despite the house being under warranty.

TheStig,

Mate, I meet people every day, who use “I’m an expert”, “I’ve been doing this for 25 years” or the very popular “do you know how much I know”, to justify why any other opinion is irrelevant.

Generally speaking, their ego is much larger than their knowledge pool.

Cheers,
Mark

Interesting …………stig, what do you do?

We are building with a volume builder - guess what? Carpets, paths, drive, pergola, etc aren't included. Why? Because we could do it cheaper ourselves - and why would we want all those extras gaining interest lumped in with the house loan?
If people want the builder to do those "extras" then they are going to pay - and that is up to them don't you think? Why should you be worried about what they are spending their money on?
Our home will be about 24sq and will all up (including $10K for the above mentioned extras) equate to approx $8500 per square so while "big" homes are cheaper - your total doesn't add up for smaller homes either, and we have inclusions like caesarstone benchtops, glass splashbacks, frameless showers, 2 person spa, tiles throughout 2/3 of the home, etc, etc.

I'd like to meet a custom builder that would build that for the same price. We couldn't find one.

Plus 10-15 years down the track when it comes time to sell, do you think that the buyers are going to demand to know who the builder was? I don't know too many people that wouldn't base their decision on face value and perhaps a termite/structural inspection.

Ray.

we also went to a pvt builder who was extremely unprofessional, hard to get and that too at the pre-sales stage. Fine, he wasnt a desparate salesman but it was hard to even get a quote from him with minor inclusions. I would not trust someone who would give me a 'rough' figure on such an expensive thing as construction.. I would be foolish to trust someone to commit my lifetime savings plus a construction loan on someone who has no commitment.
After all, no matter what one builds it still cant be the Taj Mahal!!
What certainly annoys me, is pvt builders building energy and water guzzling luxury homes in my area only to sell for huge profits.

((Plus 10-15 years down the track when it comes time to sell, do you think that the buyers are going to demand to know who the builder was? I don't know too many people that wouldn't base their decision on face value and perhaps a termite/structural inspection.))


I would Ray.

Well, that'a assuming the builders are still in business or you knew who they were. If you moved interstate or to a different suburb, would you know who XYZ small/custom building company is, and the quality of their homes?

My parents built with a custom/small builder years ago (when there wasn't really a lot of big builders) and while it's a nice place, and structurally sound, there are a lot of things about it that are a bit ******* - and not just because it's a bit old now (20+ years). The building company no longer exists, and if they told people it was built by QWERTY homes I don't think it would make a difference becuase no one has probably heard of them - they would either like it or dislike it based on what they could see.

Unfortunately I don't think there are any guarantees anymore.

Ray.

I have very firm opinions on builders and building companies…… for that reason….I won’t get into this debate.

BUT I am very keen to watch it progress!

Both my houses were over 25 years old when I bought them, and naming the builder was quite a selling point in the areas we were looking.

The first one was a Neeta design, but oversized in every dimension. Only after moving in did we find out the original owner did his own OB job on it whilst building other Neeta homes in the area. It was extremely well layed out with regards to the northern aspect, with the lounge and all bedrooms getting sunshine in winter for quite a long time in the day, and in the summer afternoons the western sun beat down on the laundry, bathroom & toilet.

It was the mirror of most other houses in the street, and while we never suffered any moisture issues, others had mould problems, and ran their A/C much longer than us in both winter and summer.

That house was a good comparison of a volume builder vs an OB some 35-40 years before all this sustainability & 'eco-friendly' stuff came into play.


When it came time to purchase our current place, we had real estate salesmen saying "this Jennings home is great etc" or "this long home is solid as a rock"
Now I'm old enough to remember these volume builders in the early & mid 80s, so when we found a home we liked, and I noticed "Lot 47, Coachwood" chalked onto one of the visible beams in the garage, I was quite happy, as Coachwood have a very good reputation in our region, and later they became beechwood.

However, getting back to termites & inspections, the building report was first & foremost in our decision on whether or not to buy, and I'd say that out of the other 10 'wants' we listed for our desired house (area, large block, reasonable driveway, large double garage r bigger etc), the name of the builder was not one of them.

Whilst I am not knocking anyone who has gone with a project builder - after all it is a personal decision, I would have to say after reading some of the comments/blogs etc from people who are building with a volume builder, I am so glad we made the decision to go with a local private builder. We don't have supervisors, but ring our builder directly. We have changed things several times since the contract was signed and our builder is more than happy to accomodate our changes. I was quite shocked to read people'e experiences with trying to change paint colours etc after their contract was signed and couldn't believe the hassles they had. We have been able to deal with each sub contractor directly, for example we provided our paint colours etc to our painter and made any changes directly with him. We have been given a key to our home so we have as much access as we want . We have had absolutely no problems (and we are only 3 weeks out from handover). Thats not to say you will have problems with project builders, but there just seems to be a lot more dissatisfaction with customer service, time frames etc that we are very lucky not to have had. Our home was about $9000 a square, so it wasn't as expensive as people think that private builders are.

Guys, The Stig is clearly a low volume builder with a beef against the big boys (hay, I'd probably feel exactly the same if I was trying to make a go of it myself...).

Heart on his sleeve? I think so

Stig, most of the people I know and have spoken to here are pretty realistic when it comes to choosing how they want to get a new home made for them. That reality is that most people who build with the volume builders are doing what they can afford to.

Is their end result a good one? Sure it is (there are only so many ways you can lay a slab/errect a house frame, etc.). Is a 'one-off custom designed masterpiece'? Not usually - that tends to be (financially) out of the common person's reach.

The car argument is pretty relevant here. Was your car individually designed for you and hand built to your satisfaction? No. Why? Because that would cost a lot more than what you think is reasonable. Do you still think you got your money's worth with the car you have? Of course you do.

I think the Stig and Michelle are qualified enough to have their opinion - and ask any plumber or electrician out there in the trade - they will agree. The reason I am using a volume builder is first and foremost price. I also recognise that by spending less I will get less. The one thing I have learnt most from this site is that I will use a building inspector and I will be on site a lot and make sure that I get at least what I am paying for. I don't want the Taj Mahal.

i am a low volume builder, and take great pride in what i do. and i do know a lot of trades that work for the high volume builders. now the thing is the reason you get a so called cheap house is that they pay the subbies a lot less for the job than they would do it for me. and while there is more homes to do, the attitude is get in and get out as quick as possible! usually the quality suffers. and it is quite well known they high volume builders rely grossly overcharging for changes and upgrades to grab a bit more profit to make up the cheaper initial price. once i employed a carpenter, then sacked him 2 weeks later for being absolutley hopless. seriously he did not know a thing about building, vertually laughed of site by all of us. and to my amazment he got a job as site supervisor for metricon. so dont tell me im on an ego trip, or i would brag about the numerous building industry awards i have one.

Good reply!

Hi Michelle,

I don’t necessarily disagree with TheStig, that some hi-volume builders may not have the same quality of sub-contractors that some low-volume builders do.

Like many inexperienced home builders who view & occasionally contribute to this forum, I value the information I read and the answers I receive to my sometimes silly questions. The contribution professionals such as you make to this site are greatly appreciated.

Now for What Annoys Me!!! Comments such as “a production line piece of crap”…“why don’t they take pride”…..“only the naïve” and “I have no sympathy, you have been sucked in by clever marketing”.

I have no problem with someone stating an opinion about what they have observed over many years in their given industry. However TheStig has personally insulted everyone here, who has chosen to go with a volume builder, without possibly knowing the reasons for their choice.

In our case, we freely admit to having no imagination whatsoever when it comes to building and found great comfort in being able to walk into a display home and say “how much to build one EXACTLY like that”.

TheStig……mate, I’m guessing if there is an award for respecting others choices….you won’t win it.

Cheers,
Mark

Well said Northlakes . My sentiments exactly!!!!