Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Sep 27, 2007 7:26 pm Our builder has completed the working drawings for our new house (monstrous time waster that it is) and we are just about to commence with the engineering. Hopefully the slab will be poured soon after.
In the meantime we have to decide on the cooling/heating systems for the house. We have FINALLY received the quotes from the eco energy guys who have taken literally months to let us know how much it will cost and relative benefits of hydronic heating and cooling etc. The builder and eco energy guy will get together with us next week - which should give us all a thrill We have looked into the dry evaporative cooling method (underfloor pipes) but don't think this system will be efficient enough to cope with the hot weather. We are very keen on hydronic heating but not sure about the cooling method. Another option is the hydronic cooling system which is forced cooling and uses the same pipework and water system as the heating. We will find out all the details in the next few days, however it is a coiling tank system which centrally stores cool water and runs it through the hydronic system cooling both slab and pumping cool air into the house. Exactly how the cooling works remains to be understood! Apparently the cooling system is 13 kw of air transfer (500 ltre). Each room can be independently controlled for air temp and on hot days we can divert the hot air from the house to heat the water in the h/w system. Now if you can understand the above you are ahead of me. However my heart thumps in glee to think our energy bills could reduce and we are helping to reduce greenhouse emissions. Has anyone heard of this type of cooling system and if so can you let us know the pro's /con's. The selection process is nearly over and we were very pleased with the builder's standard spec which was above our expectations. I'll post the selections in the next few days. I really hope this ends up working out for us as I would truly love an eco friendly house. cheers Beetle Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 2Sep 27, 2007 7:41 pm Beetle - I'll be very blunt.
Don't take offence I just have to say this. Sounds like everyone is getting too wrapped up in the technical design of your house - versus - thinking - or knowing - how can I do this in harmony with the environment that will work both in summer and winter. Steve Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 4Sep 27, 2007 8:42 pm Beetle Hi Yak_Chat No offence taken; although I'm not really sure what you mean Me neither Yak Chat. Hydronic cooling sounds intriguing Beetle. Can't help you with how it works, cause I still can't get my head round hyronic heating!!! (I've studied the workings but still don't get how the panels don't get very hot). Will be interesting to see if anyone else has any info on it. Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 5Sep 27, 2007 9:09 pm Yak_Chat Beetle - I'll be very blunt. Don't take offence I just have to say this. Sounds like everyone is getting too wrapped up in the technical design of your house - versus - thinking - or knowing - how can I do this in harmony with the environment that will work both in summer and winter. Steve Don’t worry Steve….I know what you mean. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 6Sep 27, 2007 9:24 pm How does hydronic heating and cooling work?
Well imagine this - a hot water bottle - makes you hot - why - the hot water heats the rubber bottle and the air around it - so you get hot. If you put cold water into that bottle - what does it do? It makes you cooler. and like your cars airconditioner - cold liquid is pumped through a small radiator and the air that runs through it - so it makes you cooler - so the same with cold water run through a slab - it makes the slab cooler and that - keeps you cold. re my first post. I just think that some "experts" out there are actually just learning how to make a sustainable house and maybe they are just being a bit too "technical" in their approach. Sure some it is required but don't get too wrapped up in their technology being the best there is - lots of people out there are learning about this stuff. Steve Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 7Sep 27, 2007 9:41 pm Yak_Chat Well imagine this - a hot water bottle - makes you hot - why - the hot water heats the rubber bottle and the air around it - so you get hot. Yes, but the outside of the hot water bottle also gets super hot! HH panels don't. That's what I don't get. Yak_Chat re my first post. I just think that some "experts" out there are actually just learning how to make a sustainable house and maybe they are just being a bit too "technical" in their approach. Sure some it is required but don't get too wrapped up in their technology being the best there is - lots of people out there are learning about this stuff. Steve Yep - I get what you're saying now Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 8Sep 27, 2007 10:19 pm Plus, by making this thing sounds/looks so high tech, they can add extra 50% profit margin on top.... Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 9Sep 27, 2007 10:25 pm Yak_Chat How does hydronic heating and cooling work? Well imagine this - a hot water bottle - makes you hot - why - the hot water heats the rubber bottle and the air around it - so you get hot. If you put cold water into that bottle - what does it do? It makes you cooler. re my first post. I just think that some "experts" out there are actually just learning how to make a sustainable house and maybe they are just being a bit too "technical" in their approach. Sure some it is required but don't get too wrapped up in their technology being the best there is - lots of people out there are learning about this stuff. Steve Yak_Chat Yes I understand the hot water bottle theory. However I am not clear how they are generating the cold air i.e. what type of pump. I am not convinced they are being too 'technical' nor is anyone claiming they are 'experts'. Rather they are trying to create a system which is very much in 'harmony' with the environment i.e. cooling for summer and heating for winter. Yes there are many people out there creating systems - some are better than others. Beetle Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 10Sep 28, 2007 8:20 am I think Yak_Chat might be saying to look at the actual house itself first to get the greatest efficiency - through correct design and orientation (living areas to the north etc.), correct eaves, different materials etc. etc. - before looking at the technical stuff like hydronic heating or underfloor cooling.
(sorry to try to take the words out of your mouth Yak_Chat) After 2 false starts, a year living overseas, two more world trips and 3 years of uncertainty we are now starting the build process again - hopefully for real this time! Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 11Sep 28, 2007 7:46 pm Thanks Muzzman - No offence taken Looks like I needed helping hand -
Maybe the glass of wine, my fingers and brain were being a bit to obtuse last night Basically I think a good sustainabke house should be that - sustainable and should use as much natural method as possible to assist with cooling and warmth. In my experience and I do know a few arhitects - professionally and personally - many of them love to grab the latest "products" brochure that they get sent every month as part fo their industry subscriptions - and then they love to put this wonder thing into their next design, when that might not be the best thing for the job - but it gets them noticed on the awards night FYI A basic description of the hydronic heat/colling system can be found here. http://oikos.com/esb/53/hydroniccool.html It's basically a fridge ro heater that can make the water hot or cold. But as said earlier - or was it just that I thought it With the right trees planted near the house and sunshine coming in in winter - openeing window to let cool air in when it;s around you can minimise any external methods of heat/coling. ie Manually heating or cooling the place should be a minor part of the design - if at all. Here is an article on an office building (in VIC) that does just that and uses natural methods to assist the temp of the building. It also uses a hydronic type system to cope with the body heat of the workers during the day - but they also integrate natural systems. http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901482.htm#transcript Beetle - I am really impressed that you are on the path of building a sustainable house and it is pioneers like you who will be seen as forging the way for the masses. Steve Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 12Sep 29, 2007 11:24 am Thanks very much for the information Yak_Chat
I understand what you mean and I probably wasn't too clear in my first post We have looked at all of the options you mention (shading, eaves, thermal properties of walls and floors, venting, windows etc) to make the house as sustainable as possible and the last items has been the heating/cooling for those extra hot/cold days. As much as we would like to think we won't need to use it, my guess is the house will take a lot of heat load on the upper story due to the orientation (north east). My apologies if I mis-read your response - I must have been having a dim moment (or was it the scotch!) The information is great and much appreciated. Cheers Dy Beetle Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 13Sep 29, 2007 8:47 pm No Probs Beetle.
Seeing as your building double story this might help. I find in my place - which is double story - that winters upstairs are just super , warm in the morning, great in the afternoon and very pleasant all round given I have some very poor thermal areas still as i improve the place. Downstairs in winter is a bit cooler but I'm currently working on pretty passive solution for that to help in winter. In Summer - yes upstairs is a bit too hot - but downstairs is fine and even with those really hot days in summer last year - without any cooling - it was still 10 degrees lower than outside due to my shading verandahs etc - and with a bit more passive colling planned - I reckon It wil all be livebale - ala natural - by moving around into the rooms as required and living with nature. You might also find this a useful link. http://www.aeoogle.com No it's not a typo Google has a eco (alternative energy specific products) search engine that will prioritize your search hits with eco related web pages. Nice I'll post it under eco living and see if the mods will make a sticky of it. Cheers Steve Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 14Sep 30, 2007 10:04 pm There it is again!! aeoogle....
Steve, do you need to make a statement regarding your interest in this company??? LOL I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 15Oct 01, 2007 11:44 am Quote: There it is again!! aeoogle.... Steve, do you need to make a statement regarding your interest in this company??? LOL Yep guilty as accused - I own google and I'm just here to fill in my days Money can;t buy everything you know Steve Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 16Oct 01, 2007 12:15 pm Yak_Chat Quote: There it is again!! aeoogle.... Steve, do you need to make a statement regarding your interest in this company??? LOL Yep guilty as accused - I own google and I'm just here to fill in my days Money can;t buy everything you know Steve Steve, are you crazy, of course money can buy everything. It's just a matter of how much! Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Final Working Drawings and air transfer systems 17Oct 01, 2007 1:01 pm LOL!!
One of my favourite sayings... Money cant buy you happiness but it can buy you a helicopter to take you to where happiness is!!! I have reverted to username - mattwalker Carlisle Homes - Grande 43 My building experience is here: http://www.ourgrandeplan.blogspot.com Thanks very much! And would the landscaper/contractor generally involve the engineer or is that something the client would do? Thanks for your help 2 10022 Peter In NSW your Certifier will have a copy, and the Certifier works for you not the builder. They are your representative so just contact them and ask for a… 6 2778 I had a similar issue with my fridge not too long ago. It wasn't the same model, but the symptoms were pretty much the same: the compressor would start and then stop… 3 7531 |