Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Sep 14, 2007 12:25 pm Hi
One builder is thinking that i am in breach of its copyright!!!! I have visited several designs in display house and liked some designs. I called one builder (BUILDER A) to ask if i could "pay" the copy rights and used the design, he said NO. I took the note seriously. Since i want to have a quote from several bullders, i decided to ask a draftman to draw a NEW design for me. I had only very little role in directing the output of the design (this is to show that i had not influenced the draft person). In my first meeting with the draftman, I mentioned that i need a small room near the entry for future office/study and asked him to find the position for the POS to make use of the limited space. Here, BUILDER A is also a client of the draftman (the same draftman). I have talked to the draftman that i like a particular design from Builder A . But the draftman said that i need to draw a new design so that i can ask quote from other builders. I paid the draftman to draw a new design for me. The working drawing is done, and i have asked several builders to give me a quote. BUILDER A have come back to me with a quote and a note that saying "I also noticed that the plan is a variation of what we had originally designed and you have been obtaining quotes from other building companies on the same plan which is in breach of our copyright." Any opinion? I dont think that i am in breach of copyright. Thanks Ozn Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 2Sep 14, 2007 12:39 pm If your account of events is true, I'd ignore it all together and just get on with things.... while striking them off your list of maybe's.
They're just trying to assert some sort of control over you. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 3Sep 14, 2007 12:39 pm If the discerning features of the original design have been copied then you or your designer are breaching copyright. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 4Sep 14, 2007 12:40 pm From my experience, i thought that you have to change the original design by a certain percentage or a specific no. of criteria needed to be changed before you can call it your "own" design. Someone correct me if i am wrong. Your architect should have been able to advise you on that though??? Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 5Sep 14, 2007 12:48 pm Percentage has nothing to do with it. If you draw from someone else's design, then that component never leaves your design and you are still using their copyright.
But how many ways can you divide up a box into bedrooms, kitchen, etc? Even if you've never seen the other design, there is likely to be massive similarities between them and that's just a fact of life. It's the draftsman that owns the copyright to your current drawings too BTW, so it's their issue, not yours. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 6Sep 14, 2007 12:49 pm Although i can use the design to build my house, it is not my design, because i dont have the copyright. It is the design of the draftman (who also draw for Builder A). The copyright is also belong to the draftman.
So confused and a bit angry . Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 7Sep 14, 2007 1:08 pm If the Architect or Building Designer 'draws' a scaled plan from your sketch design incorpoating your main design features then the copyright is yours.
If the designer produces a design based upon your verbal outline or produces a design from an overall design brief then the copyright will normally be theirs. All owners in this type of situation, if they wish to, should state from the outset that they wish to retain copyright. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 8Sep 14, 2007 1:29 pm I have recently researched the whole concept of copyright and here are my findings/understanding:
1) Ideas are not copyright. So if you see a feature you like, you can use it. 2) If someone expends skill and effort to produce a design, then they own the copyright, regardless of how much you change it. So, if my understanding is correct, the best approach is to sketch up something you like, use as many ideas as you like and get someone to draw them up and provide professional design input. Make sure that the copyright is assigned to you. Do not settle for a license to use. By the way, did you know that if an architect produces a design and reserves all rights, you can't build the house without their permission. Strange, but true (but in practice it would be ridiculous.) BTW, if I commision a building designer/architect to produce a design for me then I consider it my design and would want the copyright assigned to me. It's only fair. I may be able to write more later. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 9Sep 14, 2007 1:45 pm Basically correct Casa2, except that if you 'sketch up something' that is replicated from a pronounced design feature from another persons design, then you will open the copyright doors.
It is one reason why we retain all clients sketch drawings. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 10Sep 14, 2007 1:49 pm Some time ago I have talked to the draftman about the copyright. He said the design cannot be used for building ANOTHER house. Also, when i commissioned him to draw the design, i only gave verbal instruction, did not give any skets. I believe this means he OWNS the copyright, and i have no problem with this.
BTW, the "original" design from BUILDER A has a note which says that it is a copyright of the DRAFTMAN (the same draftman) and BUILDER A. If somebody is in breach of copyright, who will be the culprit? Ozn Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 11Sep 14, 2007 1:59 pm If the draftsman you are dealing with did the initial design for the builder & holds the copyright then there is no issue. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 12Sep 14, 2007 4:04 pm This is a very famous case. It states that you can end up with exactly the same design and it's OK if that is a coincidence. You need to have evidence that the person deliberately copied the design.
From Findlaw Australia... Quote: Who owns your designs? Author: Clark McNamara Lawyers The recent decision of Cl******* Homes v H***** has examined just who owns what when it comes to the design of a building. The case gives a clear lesson, whether you are the builder employing a designer in a design and construct contract or the architect or the developer in a straight building contract, that the contract should state very clearly who owns the intellectual property in a buildings design. It may be that the intellectual property in the design is licensed for the purpose of the agreement or for some longer or shorter period. Whatever the case, a developer should always ensure that it can always get access to the design of a building until it is complete, guarding against the situation where an architect or builder can hold a project to ransom pending the payment of disputed fees or insolvency. The C********* Homes case involved a claim by a builder of project homes against another project home builder alleging that the latter had breached the copyright of the former by building a project home of very similar design to the former's design. During the court's deliberations, it stated that, although two designs might be very similar, it is no breach of copyright where two people reach the same design by coincidence or where the second party had expended such skill and labour in the creation of the architectural plans to justify the conclusion that they were original artistic work. The court also held that "the degree of protection under copyright law of an architectural plan may be limited by reason of the significant proportion of features which are common to all plans, with the result that the remaining proportion of the plan in which copyright will subsist is consequently limited". December 1999 March, 2001 Just for the record - I understand that the penalty for copying has been up around $50,000 for a homeowner. So be careful... Ed If I write "I" please read "We"! Be good. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 13Sep 14, 2007 4:40 pm I quote from www.ebsworth.com.au/ebsworth/website/ee ... 202001.pdf , which states:
"In the cases where the infringement merely involved the construction of a single dwelling, such awards do not usually exceed $1000.00." I would have though more like $3000 would be an appropriate forced fee for someone you copied a design, but according to lawyers who wrote the referenced article, $1000.00 appears to be the going rate. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 14Sep 14, 2007 9:03 pm Thanks friends for the replies.
Just to summarize my previous posts: 1) Yes i have seen Pic B, and realized that i will need a NEW design in order to have quote from different builder 2) I only gave a minimal verbal instruction when i asked the draftman (bxxx) to draw a NEW design. I did not give any skets. I just said that i need a room for study/home office near the entry and chose the best location for POS as my land is limited. 3) The draftman (bxxx) also own the copyright of PIC B, as well as PIC A. 4) The builder who ALSO has copyright to PIC B said that "i am in breach of the copyright". Ozn. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 15Sep 14, 2007 9:51 pm Having a look at those designs they are similar in concept, but I don't believe it is a copyright infringement as they are notably different in scale and proportion. Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 16Sep 14, 2007 10:35 pm The differences are HUGE!!!!!
If you had retained the WIR/ensuite arrangement, then maybe I could see the similarity, but your design is no more similar to theirs, than any other home builder who might just happen to have a similar design! Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 17Sep 15, 2007 8:41 am In reality, every home design is based on the thousands of existing home designs already out there.
The designers do not start building a house from first principles. Each house is a shuffle of a couple of walls here, move a room there. You can only do so much with "4 bedrooms, kitchen, dining room, etc." It is easy to prove that two home designs are similar, because they all are! Sorry I can't be more help, as how can we determine whether 2 designs are similar enough in the courts eyes to be judged copies? If the penalty is only minor anyway, why worry? Re: Urgent: copyright infringement accusation (PIC ATTACH) 20Sep 16, 2007 9:25 am I agree with memphis, what if you move the garage a bit towards the other side, or move the location of a few windows if possible? 4 9060 Old Home Restoration / Renovation Cheers mate! This is exactly what I was thinking but wasn't sure if it was something I'd find on the shelf. I agree with you, fixing the brackets to the board will look… 2 3275 Sorry! I'm new to this forum and have made a mistake in my posting! I'm looking for a structural solution to a stand alone wooden pickets fence with no structural rail… 1 3290 |