Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Apr 13, 2010 9:44 am Our builders and site manager have been 'average' since day one!
We picked up soooo many errors at PCI yesterday and our independant picked up quite a few serious ones on Friday. Our handover date is booked for two weeks from now. However I so dont trust the builder to fix all the errors, especially major ones. What do I do? I am thinking of taking our independant back for our handover which will cost me a lot but will probably put my mind at ease. Our SS will totally crack it (Ill post another post about him and PCI later). What happens if works arent fixed within 14days?? Thanks everyone Kate. Re: What after PCI - no trust 5Apr 13, 2010 3:57 pm you can always settle but have a number of outstanding items that you and your SS agree on. i got into my house just before christmas and the only way we did was to both sign off on a list of things needing to be done that werent done for settlement but would be completed some time after settlement. if i didnt settle with outstanding items agreed on i wouldnt have been in my house until mid feb or even march due to the christmas shutdown. i would only recommend this option if you are desperate, if you can afford to wait till everything is fixed then this is a much better option. also check your defect and maintenance period. mine was 13 weeks from settlement so we were able to pick up on minor things - just depends how bad your outstanding things are. Re: What after PCI - no trust 6Apr 13, 2010 6:43 pm If some are serious defects and you're really concerned that they won't be fixed, you might want to get some legal advice on your options. Before the handover date. Re: What after PCI - no trust 7Apr 13, 2010 8:26 pm heater07 Simple. Dont settle and dont pay them until you are happy. The problem is most builders, ask you to sign a clause that says, you should not delay any payments, because of problems or incomplete work, as it is still the builders responsibility to fix the errors or problems that are not as per your original plan, irrespective of whether you make the payment or not. Although it seems like a reasonable thing to do, to not pay, if work if not fully completed properly... it is actually like going against the contract you have signed, by not releasing the payment. Something along those lines... Land - Northerly Estate, Piara Waters Titles Issues 05 April 2010 Building with Ross North Homes Prestart Completed 12 April 2010 Finance Approved 01 May 2010 Slab down 29 May 2010 Frame Completed 28 June 2010 Roof Completed 22 July 2010 Lockup 12 August 2010 PCI 24 Sep 2010 Handover 08 Oct 2010 Building Thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32295&start=0 Re: What after PCI - no trust 9Apr 14, 2010 7:09 am mark299 heater07 Simple. Dont settle and dont pay them until you are happy. The problem is most builders, ask you to sign a clause that says, you should not delay any payments, because of problems or incomplete work, as it is still the builders responsibility to fix the errors or problems that are not as per your original plan, irrespective of whether you make the payment or not. Although it seems like a reasonable thing to do, to not pay, if work if not fully completed properly... it is actually like going against the contract you have signed, by not releasing the payment. Something along those lines... We delayed several progress payments because work wasn't complete, one for more than four months. Who pays an invoice when the goods or services contracted for haven't been received or aren't up to scratch? You'd have to be insane. You need to understand your contract and also your common law rights. Or hire someone who does. Either party is entitled to end the contract under a variety of circumstances anyway. For instance, there is provision under certain circumstances to give the builder x days to rectify all defects, and if they fail to do so, the owner can void the contract and take control of the site. Talk to a lawyer who specialises in building litigation. Re: What after PCI - no trust 11Apr 14, 2010 10:10 am If you are on a HIA contract the Practical Completion payment is the only one you're able to delay payment of. Again check your contract. If you do decide that you're desperate to get in despite the defects get a timeframe for rectification of the listed defects in writing. Never argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level & then beat you with experience - Dilbert View Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19733 Contract signed 14Sept Slab 30Sept Bricks laid 1Dec Lock up 26Feb Keys 10Jun Re: What after PCI - no trust 12Apr 14, 2010 11:13 am Thanks heaps everyone. We are going to re hire our independant inspector (Alex) and get him to check over it with us. Ill then handover payment but put in writting outstanding things they havent fixed. Some of the big things Im worried about are a lot of the ceiling needs replacing due to storm/water damage. The Gas meter is right next to our hot water system and legally needs to be a min 1.5m away. Thanks again Kate Re: What after PCI - no trust 13Apr 14, 2010 11:32 am I would inform your SS now that the independant building inspector is coming back to check to see that the necessary repair are done, that way he will be less likely to push them to one side, I would even go further up the food chain so to speak an inform them that final payment will be held back unless this final issues are resolved and signed off by your independant inspector. Cheers Lou http://take2-customdesigndownslope.blogspot.com 07-10-09 omg they have cut the block 14-05-10 we finally have the keys Re: What after PCI - no trust 14Apr 14, 2010 1:41 pm Its a common tactic by builders to drag out the final repairs or do basically nothing then ask you to accept handover and they'll come back and fix the issues later. They know you are desperate but don't do it because chances are you'll spend the next 12 months trying to get them to come back and fix the issues. I've been in my house over a year and the issues are still not fixed. For the paint alone I waited on three seperate days for people that didn't show up. In the end I just gave up and was comforted by the fact I'll never have to deal with them again. Re: What after PCI - no trust 15Apr 14, 2010 2:05 pm Always interesting to see a person's perception of what PCI means. When you sign a PCI document and so does the builder, it's the builder putting in writing that they will fix all of those things and in most cases, a certain time frame. I'd definitely go along with signing the PCI as long as you have the items listed that you have concerns about. Always difficult when you need to move in so be prepared to have trades rocking up at your house to complete the works. From the clients point of view, I think PCI is brilliant as it puts the onus on the builder to get everything sorted. Re: What after PCI - no trust 16Apr 14, 2010 8:41 pm This is a very contensious issue it seems ,HIA document P37 covers List of defects and final payment. In Particular 37. 2 " the builder must carry out the work to rectify the defects " & 37.3 "the builder is to give written notice to the owner once those defects or incompete work is completed and a further 7 days is granted for final payment" get a private building inspector then the balls in their court. Re: What after PCI - no trust 17Apr 14, 2010 10:04 pm Mozzie Its a common tactic by builders to drag out the final repairs or do basically nothing then ask you to accept handover and they'll come back and fix the issues later. They know you are desperate but don't do it because chances are you'll spend the next 12 months trying to get them to come back and fix the issues. I've been in my house over a year and the issues are still not fixed. For the paint alone I waited on three seperate days for people that didn't show up. In the end I just gave up and was comforted by the fact I'll never have to deal with them again. The same thing happened to us. We have been in the house for 8 months and we still have basins that hold water due to an apparent drainage problem, paint spills on the carpets and chips in the front render. We also had to have most of the woodwork repainted plus countless other fix-ups. The house wasn't ready and we shouldn't have taken it. We were pressured into moving by a set date too but since this has happened we have vowed to never put ourselves in a position to take a house again before it is up to our standards and expectations. Good luck with what you decide. Blog: http://bluemistkids.blogspot.com "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, and professionals built the Titanic." Re: What after PCI - no trust 18Apr 15, 2010 9:56 am andy This is a very contensious issue it seems ,HIA document P37 covers List of defects and final payment. In Particular 37. 2 " the builder must carry out the work to rectify the defects " & 37.3 "the builder is to give written notice to the owner once those defects or incompete work is completed and a further 7 days is granted for final payment" get a private building inspector then the balls in their court. Andy, it would be interesting to know what "HIA document" you are referring to - can you elaborate? Or is it just your own Contract with your builder? We have no such clause and we are also on a HIA contract. I found something different, which goes something like: 1) At the PCI inspection, if the Owner believes that the "works" have not reached practical completion, the Owner may give the builder a written notice detailing anything to be done to reach practical completion. [it doesn't elaborate if these "works" can be defects, or only incomplete work]. The builder may disagree and refuse any further works. If he does that, he must give a written rejection notice and refer the matter to dispute resolution. 2) Final payment date = Date of practical completion. At the time of Owner paying the final payment, the builder hands over the keys. 3) Once the building is "practically completed", the defect liability period starts (3 months). During this period, the Owner may give the builder one list of defects in building works for defects that appear after the date of practical completion. The builder must rectify defects "which are the builder's responsibility". [so there is no carry-over of any non-fixed defects] My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: What after PCI - no trust 19Apr 15, 2010 8:44 pm lex, Iam referring to the HIA 2007 edition,it seems they differ from state to state or editions. Its not the contact we signed with the builder the word "defects and " incomplete" work are mentioned in P37. Re: What after PCI - no trust 20Apr 15, 2010 9:32 pm Hmm, "HIA 2007 edition" as a document is not freely available. I would assume though, that your Contracts refers to it, or it may even be included in your Contract. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... We hired Darbecca to do every stage inspection, and I strongly recommend them to anyone that asks me. They were amazing. Thorough reports with photos at every stage,… 6 7126 i would not be signing anything on the day read your contract about when builder submits final invoice generally, have to meet builder within 7 days of receiving final… 1 4735 We were lucky in that our old house was so small (86 square metres) compared to the new house, they were able to take enough readings around the old backyard house before… 8 37139 |