Definition of 'new' product in building contract - Urugghhhh

Liv · Sep 10, 2007 5:52 pm

Hi all, bit of a rant and seeking your advice / experience.

My $1590 wooden bi-part sliding doors were delivered to site 06/07/2007. Until early August they sat on the garage floor full of water. They were dismanteled and 'dried' out to assess the damage and have remained in that condition for a further month. To this date they are still not installed (becuase the opening in the frame is too small even after sending us a variation to change the dimension of the opening TWO weeks before frame started.... another story) and we want a new door.

The contract details that 'new' materials are to be provided through construction / fit out etc. The door in it's current state after being delivered 06/07/2007, and being practically immersed in water for 4 weeks, then dismantled to 'dry out' can not, even by the loosest definition, be considered new. The builing company (high volume) is challenging our stance that we want them replaced as we no longer accept them as 'new'.

What's your advice and experience with this?
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ahuang · Sep 10, 2007 6:56 pm

Try a different approach:

On a night without moon, "someone" entered the site and "accidentally" breaks the glass/door. The end.

Oh, make sure it's not handed over yet...
:lol:

Michelle · Sep 10, 2007 7:01 pm

LIV….this is disgusting! I can’t believe the delivers put the doors where they could be damaged, especially by water!!!! This is their fault! NOT yours and they should replace those doors for you.

After that long sitting in water you will never be able to use them, they could make a good feature for the outdoor area!!! But don’t tell the supplier!

I can’t believe they are even disputing this with you! No Longer new!…..they are WAY past being new, they are second hand after spending only 2 hours in the water!

Stand your ground, get your new doors, or threaten legal action, that should get them going! :evil:

Adrian B · Sep 10, 2007 7:27 pm

With michelle on that one, they are water damaged, they are not new.

Their problem not yours.

Yak_Chat · Sep 10, 2007 7:55 pm

At the risk of soundling like an echo.

Ditto.

Demand replacement doors. No compromise.

Steve

Casa2 · Sep 10, 2007 8:06 pm

The doors are new. They have not been used, so therefore they are new.

But this is not the issue. They are damaged. They are unacceptable. End of story.

Arguing about whether they are new is arguing across purposes.

Try this test. Would the door in question be able to be sold in a retail store. Only as damaged stock.

VJ · Sep 10, 2007 9:37 pm

I wonder if they would use that kind of door in their display homes :lol:

shanem · Sep 10, 2007 9:51 pm

Most sensible builders have the doors and windows delivered when they can be installed immediately. If they have to be stored on site they should be stacked clear of the ground, reveals facing down so they cannot hold water. Manufacturers also have the option of wrapping the windows and doors in plastic to avoid damage from the elements if stored for any length of time. At a cost of approx $5 per item its well worth it as it also protects them during handling.

If the doors are unusable they should be replaced without question by the builder. You should also be aware that the builder should carry insurance covering damage to materials on site and a multitude of other events as well.

Maybe the threat of an independant inspection of the project will convince him the do the right thing.

Dont let him get away with it.

Liv · Sep 12, 2007 2:35 pm

Thanks everyone for your advice. We're still waiting on the site manager's manager to call us after inspecting the door and site. :evil:

There's a number of complicating issues that have arisen from basic mismanagement of the site, but considering this door as suitable to be installed is breaking point.

I really think this is where mass volume builders get their bad name from. 80% of the rest of the process has been brilliant, but no one hears about that. It's the 20% ruined by a ** salesman and a ****** site supervisor that everyone bases their opinion on. Not clever.

Most high volume builders are aware of websites like these, hence names have been replaced with '*******'. Why don't they manage their 'customers' appropriately??!!

Urughhhhhhh. Any instructions how to put pics in? Then I can show you the door so you can share in my frustrations!!!

Michelle · Sep 12, 2007 2:43 pm

The growing number of unsatisfied people with their builders is getting quite unsettling!

I think it might be time do dig a bit deeper, and see what can be found out about everyone’s
rights within the building trade!

I’ll let you all know……

_Al_ · Sep 12, 2007 2:44 pm

Create a photobucket account.

Uploads pics into your account.

Then use the link provided in the account to put the image here

The link will have [ img ] http:///...blah blah..... [ /img ]

vanderlay · Sep 12, 2007 2:49 pm

Liv

Urughhhhhhh. Any instructions how to put pics in? Then I can show you the door so you can share in my frustrations!!!

1. Upload the image to a hosting site - eg Flickr, imageshack etc

2. Copy the "address" of the picture eg

http://www.pichere.thisisapicture.jpg)

(Right click pic, select properties, address will show up)

3. In your post click "Img", paste the address, click "Img" again.

4. So post looks like this [ img]http://www.pichere.thisisapicture.jpg[/img ]

5. Once you post the pic will be displayed.

vanderlay · Sep 12, 2007 2:51 pm

Thanks Al.....typing away at same time

Liv · Sep 12, 2007 3:00 pm

Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅

Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅

Thank you Vanderlay and Al.... Fume with me everyone!!!!! one... two.. three..... UUURRRRRGGHHHHHH!

vanderlay · Sep 12, 2007 3:05 pm

yep....BRAND NEW DOOR REQUIRED!

Michelle · Sep 12, 2007 3:19 pm

I’m speechless!!!

HOW can anyone think those TIMBER doors would be any good after that! :shock:

Nice to see they taped up the handles……then dumped them on the ground!!!

I have only EVER seen this type of door leaning against a wall.

Liv · Sep 14, 2007 12:54 pm

Next Installment...

*House wrapped and bricks delivered
*'Chippie' amending dimension on Family Room opening and putting beam in behind meterbox
* Site supervisor INSISTANT that door WILL be installed with brickwork commencing next week
* I have been advised by Consumer Affairs to start an official dispute through BACV (and are considering this pending Metricon's response today)
*I have determined that on this issue alone they have breached 3 sections of the Fair Trading Act. (Perhaps they didn't realise they were dealing with someone well versed in legislation... tsk tsk)

Sad thing is I never wanted to take it this far. Three emails sent off today , 4 phone messages left each at 9.44, 10.44, 11.44 No return calls. Beyond a joke.

If we persue this legally and I'm fairly confident in my interpretation of legislation, they're looking at 1200 penalty units per breach. In laymans langage in accordance to the Office of the Cheif Parlimentary Counsel a penalty unit in THIS financial year is $110.12. Multiply that out by 1200 units... $132,144.00 PER breach. Replacing the $1590.00 door is slightly cheaper...

Am I nuts or is this simple??? Any further advice?

_Al_ · Sep 14, 2007 1:12 pm

Nice pic

You've got to be kidding :roll:

Liv · Sep 19, 2007 2:28 pm

The FREAKN' doors were installed Saturday :shock:

and now they've started to brick like everything is FREAKN dandy... URGUGHHHHHHHHHH

Casa2 · Sep 19, 2007 3:51 pm

Liv

The FREAKN' doors were installed Saturday :shock:

and now they've started to brick like everything is FREAKN dandy... URGUGHHHHHHHHHH

Liv,

If they've done something wrong and you've put so much effort into getting it put right, it's time to stop talking and refer the matter to the Department of Fair Trading.

As you mention, not only will they have to fix your problem, but there are penalties to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If it was me, I'd stop talking to them about this issue and put an application in to have it heard by the authorities.

This let's the builder focus on getting the job complete and lets the matter be heard at a later date. Maybe it's better to record everything now and put in hearing application once the building is finished.

Cheers,
Casa